shame on us all

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bunnyleach
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2007/04/23 22:30:20 (permalink)

shame on us all

I've been checking the fishing reports and i tell you... the pictures I've seen make me feel sad and ashame of us all, it's amazing how some so called "fishermen" pose so proud to the cameras with their  catch on their hands while the fish they are holding drop and waist away their eggs and sperm (future generation)
 
There was a post about wild steelhead and must posters agreed there isn't any. I disagree with that and so do studies done by some at the SR. Think about it... if the old believe is true that all fish return to the place they were born then that meas all the fish that choose no to go to the hatchery they were no artificially spawn but wild spawn and that makes them wild fish (I myself have cut wild steelhead at the upper fly zone) and how do we help these fish... by pulling them out of their spawning beds and make them waist away their good genetics... so sad....
 
that's why i say... shame on the authorities for no closing at least the fly zones during spawning periods, shame on the guides that bring their client to the spawning beds and make these wild fish waist away their future generation, shame on the clients that don't tell their guides to respect that fish and go fish some where else, and shame on us all that sit and watch or look the other way and say nothing about it. 
#1

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    hot tuna
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/23 22:39:47 (permalink)
    your on the wrong site...........

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #2
    MohawkRiverDan
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/23 23:11:47 (permalink)
    Mom! I thought I told you to stay away from the computer when your drinking. Shame on you.
    #3
    salmotrutta
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/23 23:22:25 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: hot tuna

    your on the wrong site...........

    Agreed. You won't see much of that here. Check out the pics hot tuna posted on the 420 thread. The fish never left the water.
    We do not advocate yanking fish off of redds, or anything but honest fishing.
    Many on this board are C&R 100% of the time, and are continually working for the betterment of the fishery.



    Lyrical
    #4
    bunnyleach
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/24 01:20:11 (permalink)
    Ether i didn't explain my self or you missed the point.
    I'm not accusing any one on this forum of practicing such an unethical way of fishing (in fact i don't know anyone by name or face in this forum) if any one feels offended by my comments maybe there is a reason why, if you are one of those i mention above; that fishes the upper fly zone (the wire to be more precise ) and while your holding the fish for the picture to be taken the fish is dropping its eggs and sperm, then my friend you should be offended by my comments for practicing  unethical way of fishing.
    Like they say a picture says a thousand words... so you'd know what and who I'm talking about if you (and i know you have) see the pictures.
     
    Having said that.. don't you agree that the fly zones especially the wire hole should be closed, at least during the period of steelhead spawning??? so we could have more wild reproduction in the river........................
     
    #5
    salmotrutta
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/24 13:20:51 (permalink)
    As far as the pics go- I don't think people do it intentionally.
    Taking a quick pic & putting it back minus some repro. juice is still better than a kill.
    People save up to make a pilgrimage to fish for them. Bringing home a pic. of a great moment you wait all year for and will cherish is not a bad thing by me. I quit taking pics of all my fish a few years ago for the same reasons you speak of, but if someone wants me to take a pic of them with a fish I'm not going to turn them down, or bad mouth them.
    Should the UFZ be closed for them to spawn? That is a matter of personal opinion. If we close that why not the Sportsmans Pool, Glass Pool, Ellis Cove, etc. because there are beds there as well.
    The fish are there to give people an oppertunity to fish for them (and feed the local economy).
    I don't think it's shameful to fish in a place where it is lawful to do so. It would be differant if the area was closed & this was happening.
    Is there natural repro going on? I certainly belive so. As you say- studies say there is. How else could there be runs of fish (Salmon/Steel?Browns, etc.) on waters that aren't stocked if it doesn't take place.
    Is it lawful to fish for them? Yes. Should that change? some say yes, some say no.
    Some feel (as many do) it is sickning to fish over spawners, but it is lawful there.

    If you come to my home waters and try it you will be fined. If one of the locals catch anyone doing so only God can save them from being run out of the county and carrying the mark of Cain for the rest of thier life!
    I watch over those waters as many others do to protect our spawners, and thier precious cargo.
    We don't even let anyone wade until the eggs are hatched so the eggs are not silted over.

    Should this be the practice on the SR? What does everyone think?





    Lyrical
    #6
    spoonchucker
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/24 14:10:15 (permalink)
    Trutta,
     
    While I agree that there is a (miminal) amount of natural reproduction. Runs in unstocked streams, is not evidence of it. Stream inprinting, especially with Steelhead, is no where near 100 percent.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #7
    JWicky
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/25 15:18:54 (permalink)
    I think every effort should be made to support natural reproduction when ever possible.  If closing the upper and lower fly zones during this period is feasible and it is proven (at least in theory) to make a significant difference then I think it should be consider.  However, when should that be? I believe that closing them for a prolonged period of time is not in the best interests of the fishery as a whole and  I don't think the DEC has enough officers to patrol those zones and decide when the actual spawn is on.  I know it happens the same time (during the same basic time periods) every years or close but closing these areas until say now is a bit much.  I also agree with Salmo that if you close the fly zones then you need to consider closing the area all the way down to and probably below Ellis Cove.   Is any of this going to happen.  I don't believe so.  
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    JeffL
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/04/30 15:03:12 (permalink)
    Fish drop eggs and spuge all the time. There are 1000's of them in the river, The SR right now I think has the best natural repro stats of any river in NY. Its not just upper fly zone- Ellis Cove- Frasiers run- Gravel above sportsmans- There are spawning locations everywhere.

    Plus the hatchery adds new fish every year.

    There is no way a few photos of fish out of water dropping eggs is going to affect the #'s what so ever.

    You should commend these people for CnR not bash them because the fish they are holding is dropping eggs.
    #9
    salmotrutta
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/05/01 20:01:49 (permalink)

    I can't say I know what you're talking about! 
    post edited by salmotrutta - 2007/05/01 20:03:13

    Lyrical
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    Foxfire
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    RE: shame on us all 2007/05/02 19:32:00 (permalink)
    I would agree with keeping the upper flyzone closed until May would be a good and easily enforcable action if undertaken by the DEC. The notion of allowing the hatchery a second source of spawning grounds (IMHO) is very important and overlooked. This was attempted several years ago on Trout and Orwell brooks and was shot right down. We should be very thankful that nothing bad has happened to the hatchery, but what happens if something does and all eggs, smolts and fry have to be destroyed.
     
    As far as natural reproduction goes, I think it is great than anyone can imagine. I was fortunate to meet a fishery biologist last September who is attempting to determine this with Chinooks. I would hope King Davy (or anyone else) who knows more, could chime in on this. If he is successful, I do believe his results will blow everyone's mind.
     
    I was with Fran last spring watching salmon hatch in the lower flyzone. I think its safe to say, these were not hatchery fish. Of course predation takes a major toll on the number, but no one knows (for certain) how much.
     
    As far as picture taking I have a few myself, but I am very quick about it and the fish is not out of the water for more than a few seconds. A net always helps.
    #11
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