MyWar
Is my girlfriend an enviro-nazi because she places a high value on French Creek because it supports a uniquely biodiverse habitat for animals, wild flowers and birds (honestly she doesn't care that much about fishing), but I’m not because I value it more as a fishery?

If she sued the government over and over to shut down all human use of French Creek or targeted fishing or boating to ensure the biodiversity not be disrupted by either, then yes. Especially if she then supported something else that completely disrupts the biodiversity of another area.

Do a bit of research on any of the items that I noted. Look at what organizations support each side. Local sportsmen clubs on one side and national/international “environmental” groups on the other. Most of these national groups have absolutely no ties to the areas that they are trying to eliminate “human disruption”, but are just fine supporting disruption if a project benefits their “values”.

I don’t have that $500k boat and don’t even pay for the charter boats that go out far enough to be affected by these speed limit regulations. The date range of these restrictions would be during the winter, which I’d never plan to ever be on a boat hitting these restrictions. But I do know that whale & small craft incidents are extremely rare, seeing multiple studies and reports. This doesn’t affect me, so the value thing doesn’t apply. Just an example of a far left organization that has deep financial ties to the Democratic Party is assaulting the sportsmen for very little reason. To note, boats that are working on the wind farms are exempt to this restriction. To further the hypocrisy point.

I don’t fish “The Point” in Buxton, where I am referencing about the birds. I have, but the hike is too far and I don’t want to get an ORV pass for 1-2 times driving, when I usually am easy walking distance of other spots or spots to drive that don’t need ORV. I have fished other areas where the birds are protected, that leaves plenty of human access. So, again, not something that I personally “value”. Just noting the hypocrisy of it and if it can fly there, where will it stop? Will they shut down all water for human recreational use, since it is no value to them? Any time we use, there is some sort of biodiversity that someone “values” is at risk. Should we shut down all boating and fishing?

The commercial fishing drag nets that do a ridiculous amount of environmental damage having precedence over recreational fishermen on harvesting flounder just makes no environmental sense. But it is the local/state GOP supporting the recreational sportsmen and the local/state Dems supporting the commercial side. This actually surprised me.

The roads/bridges, this is everywhere. There is the EPA and other responsible agencies that do environmental studies. It is not these agencies that I am referring to when these projects are put on decades long hold. I am all for taking whatever environmental precautions the EPA, NRCS or other conservation agencies recommend. I am completely against the GOP of always looking to curtail this. It is the same environmental groups that sue, tie things up in court, hoping they can stop the projects from funds expiring or inflation/other causing the project to be over the top level budget. Sort of the same tactic MAGA man uses. But repulsive when he does it, not when they do? Should we eliminate all roads, cars and anything that disrupts biodiversity, since some value it more than transportation.

To try to say the Dems have the answers on the environment is just wrong. Is it better than completely destroying the Earth and denying science, sure. But overreach is just as bad. I refuse to follow either party blindly. I wish more people like myself existed and could eliminate this “us vs. them” BS.

snagr

DeadGator401

What from the DNC this week do you think they'll tell you to be mad about?

Is Andy Beshear's insinuation that he hopes JD Vance's wife or daughter gets violated legit or nah?  

Oh by the way Trump posted a video around the same time created by AI (because he's too old to know what it is) singing about how Harris got to where she is.
https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1825615003476730190

So one is someone asking if someone else should go through what they suggested for others (Vance). The other is a near 80 year old sharing AI created videos about a Presidential Candidate in a blatant sexual manner. 

Hmm. 

Porktown


Do a bit of research on any of the items that I noted. Look at what organizations support each side. Local sportsmen clubs on one side and national/international “environmental” groups on the other. Most of these national groups have absolutely no ties to the areas that they are trying to eliminate “human disruption”, but are just fine supporting disruption if a project benefits their “values”.

I don’t have that $500k boat and don’t even pay for the charter boats that go out far enough to be affected by these speed limit regulations. The date range of these restrictions would be during the winter, which I’d never plan to ever be on a boat hitting these restrictions. But I do know that whale & small craft incidents are extremely rare, seeing multiple studies and reports. This doesn’t affect me, so the value thing doesn’t apply. Just an example of a far left organization that has deep financial ties to the Democratic Party is assaulting the sportsmen for very little reason. To note, boats that are working on the wind farms are exempt to this restriction. To further the hypocrisy point.

I dont have time to read up on all the stuff you listed, so I picked this to start with. I presume you are talking about the speed restrictions for right whale breeding territory, right?
 
So first of all I couldnt find anything about wind farm vessels being exempt from these speed restrictions, although this article seemed to provide a relatively unbiased take on wind farm construction vs protection of right whales during breeding ground. The Feds are pushing the wind farm developers to go as far as to monitor the impacts of underwater noise during constructions which could affect whales' ability to use sonar, and at least one wind farm developer cited in the article (Vineyard Wind) "agreed to boat-speed limits, a strict time frame for pile driving (it only happens when right whales’ main migration through the area is over), and the presence of marine observers, who search for right whales and stop construction if even one is in the area." So if you found info that suggests wind farm development is somehow exempt from anything then I would ask you to share it. Generally speaking, wind energy has been the target of all kinds of right wing attacks because fossil fuel interests are heavily invested in the republican party. I would take ANYTHING reported second hand about wind energy with a grain of salt, and make sure that info is fact checked.
 
The main threats with right whales are collisions with boats and entanglements in nets from commercial fishing. The NOAA has some data here. The main cause of death is boats. The main cause of injury (not necessarily resulting in death) is entanglements in nets. No you can say that vessel strikes are "rare" however there are only about 360 right whales left, and if 15 of them have been killed by boats in the last 8 years, thats just over 4% of the entire population, which is not an insignificant number considering how dangerously small the population already is. To put that into perspective, the population of pittsburgh is about 300,000 people. If 12,000 (or roughly 4% of the population) people in the Pittsburgh area were killed by collisions with garbage trucks in the last 8 years, would you say that collisions with garbage trucks were "rare"? As far whatever studies or reports you saw that indicate the vessel strikes are "rare" I would be happy to take a look at them, but my initial thought here is "rare" can be a subjective term in this context, and the issue here is the actual number of dead whales, not how often they occur.
 
I'm also not sure which "far left organization with deep ties to the democratic party" is behind this. As far as I can tell there is no monied interest in preventing the extinction of a certain species. Conservation groups dont lobby congress because their ability to make money is threatened, their motives are pretty clear. But there is alot of money in the commercial fishing and sport fishing industries, and those industries have deep "financial ties" to elected officials as well.
 
Now if somebody wants to make an argument that the commercial fishing industry is not being held to the same level of accountability as the sport fishing industry, then I might be inclined to agree. Instead of saying "what about wind farms" maybe the charters should be saying "what about the commercial fisherman". And the reason for that difference is pretty obvious - the commercial fishing industry has MUCH deeper pockets, therefore much more influence.
 
But if this example is supposed to illustrate that conservation efforts are threatening a sport fishing industry, so there is a simple direct clash between conservation and sportsmen. Ok, I get that. But I still think that they way you portrayed the conservation efforts is inaccurate, and what the debate really comes down to one group of people valuing one thing and another group valuing something else. 
 
And something else to think about - If a big oil company or some commercial fishing operation came along and did something that wiped out a population of the sport fish along a portion of the atlantic coast, how fast do you think these same charters who are fighting these speed restrictions would turn into "enviro-nazis"?
 
There are huge volumes of water and vast areas of land in this country that support sport fishing and hunting opportunities, and these places only exist because conservationists protected them in the first place. 
 
 
 

The overwhelming majority of whale strikes are from large vessels either commercial or military size with vessels that don’t have the cockpits as close to the water to see whales. I didn’t notice any of that noted in the links you provided. I.e. it is pretty hard to not see a surfacing whale in a 35’ boat, which obviously don’t want to run into one. Which also happen to be much more maneuverable to avoid. The proposed bans are on vessels well under the size that would ever hit a whale. Which are the sizes primarily used by sportsmen in the area.

The proposals give some sort of nonenforceable clause to the windmill construction ships, well big enough with lower maneuverability to avoid whales.

Check out stripers online. There are hundreds of boat captains on there that would be able to speak a bit more firsthand, sportsmen wise about it.

Don’t get me wrong, windmill MAGA nuttiness is up there with their other conspiracy theories. But I did read this from the proposal that someone posted, from a legit either .gov or state government link. Many of the far left protest groups would do anything to stop fishing and hunting or just don’t care if their causes trample on the rights of sportsmen. The Dem party seems just fine giving them a voice. Sportsmen in many parts of the country have very good reason to not follow along with them Dem party on environmental issues. Not that GOP cutting the EPA helps them in any way. Again, not an either/or IMO, there is a better way than both.

ICE NUT
No more oil and coal well i guess we will all freeze to death.Don't worry Comrade Kamoola and Tampon Timmy will solve the problem
 
 

https://www.reuters.com/g...BIDEN/OIL/lgpdngrgkpo/
 
 

Porktown
The overwhelming majority of whale strikes are from large vessels either commercial or military size with vessels that don’t have the cockpits as close to the water to see whales. I didn’t notice any of that noted in the links you provided. I.e. it is pretty hard to not see a surfacing whale in a 35’ boat, which obviously don’t want to run into one. Which also happen to be much more maneuverable to avoid. The proposed bans are on vessels well under the size that would ever hit a whale. Which are the sizes primarily used by sportsmen in the area.

The proposals give some sort of nonenforceable clause to the windmill construction ships, well big enough with lower maneuverability to avoid whales.

Check out stripers online. There are hundreds of boat captains on there that would be able to speak a bit more firsthand, sportsmen wise about it.

Do you have alot of first hand experience with operating ocean vessels in the 35’-65’ ft range, specifically in regards to seeing and avoiding obstacles that might suddenly appear while under cruising speed?

I’m sure a bunch of fishermen on an online forum have things to say about the government. Whether those things are informed by facts or factual data is another question.

I’d be happy to look at any well sourced info you would like to provide.

crappiefisher

This was mind blowingly dumb, even for him. 

Taylor Swift is not a person to make your enemy. She has incredible power. She endorsed Biden in 2020, but there's a difference between endorsing your opponent, and her being your enemy. She has a history with AI stuff and she does not take kindly to it. 

They're scrambling. 

Porktown
Anyone that follows the market knows cycles. Somehow old man, I mean OLD man Joe avoided a recession. With how OLD man Trump printed money during his presidency, then Covid, Trump throwing money at Covid (much higher stimulus than Biden), promising more if people voted for him, which Biden’s ancient mind thought would be a good idea to follow through with (and then blamed for inflation for doing). Regardless, the next President is about 95% chance of going to be leading during a recession. Why would you even want to. I swear half of what each party is doing positioning wise is, “oh well, you win this time and deal with that crap”. I mean, some of this stuff is almost obvious “don’t vote for me”. Or just how I am interrupting.

Trailing stop loss if you haven’t set one…

That's easy for both - it's about stopping Trump and Project 2025, or simply power. 

12 out of the last 16 years we have had democrats in charge--yea- its all Trumps fault - TDS 

MyWar

psu_fish

MyWar

psu_fish
Unlike all of yinz, I actually work in Franklin and live close to Franklin....can assure you, this is not a new well or something an evil Republican did. But carry on. 

I really cant understand if people say stuff like this because they really dont get it, or if they are being deliberately obtuse. 
 
Why does it matter whether this one is new? And why does it matter if I live in Franklin?
 
When you have gas drilling, and oil wells, and mines everywhere, this is what happens. we are still having accidents and leaks from the stuff that has been sitting here for the last 100+ years, and republicans just want to keep building more and more. Do you not see the connection between "more oil wells" -> "more oil well leaks"? Or do you think the stuff they make now will just somehow last forever and never leak?   
 
Like seriously, how do you not look at this think "hmm, maybe we should stop using oil", or look at the thousands of miles of dead, orange creeks in PA and think "hmm, maybe we should stop using coal". 

You really are an ****clown. The very kayak you float down the river in, is made possible due to "big oil"
 
Ever look at a lithium mine or cobalt mine and think gee this is great for the environment? I m not even going to waste the bandwidth with you anymore. You wanna make EV's remotely possible, start allowing new nuclear reactors to be built...but its a scary word to the libs. Nuclear energy is cleaner and the only feasible solution. 

On one hand this response just boils down to whataboutism. You never actually addressed what I posted.

On the other hand you’re not wrong about the environmental costs of rare earth element mining. In addition, there are substantial human rights violations as well, for example the artisanal cobalt mining in the Congo is essentially modern day slavery, with child labor and extremely dangerous working conditions.

Much of that supply ends up in China, but alot of western industries have undertaken serious effort in trying to source materials ethically (even if it’s not always easy to do). The problem is that some of largest deposits of these rare earth elements are in third world countries, and therefore much easier to exploit.

Many of these materials can also be recycled as well. You can’t recycle oil, or natural gas, or coal. And if we are talking about things like lithium for EV batteries, then there is still no carbon footprint.

This is a complicated topic (as is nuclear energy), and it’s totally worth talking about. But simple fact that mining is dirty doesn’t mean we should just go back to coal. I’d say this is a chance for the US to demonstrate leadership and push for clean, ethical sourcing of these materials instead of just racing to the bottom, which the Republican Party has zero interest in doing.

 
You really think you are the smartest guy in the room. LMAOOOO.
 
Yes, there is a footprint for EV batteries no matter how you wanna slice it and dice it Carbon is involved.  
https://climate.mit.edu/a...anufacturing-batteries
Currently, most lithium is extracted from hard rock mines or underground brine reservoirs, and much of the energy used to extract and process it comes from CO2-emitting fossil fuels. Particularly in hard rock mining, for every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air.
 
 
The vast majority of lithium-ion batteries—about 77% of the world’s supply—are manufactured in China, where coal is the primary energy source. (Coal emits roughly twice the amount of greenhouse gases as natural gas, another fossil fuel that can be used in high-heat manufacturing.)
 
 
And when recycling said batteries, carbon/fossil fuels will absolutely be used. 
 
And France boosted Nuclear output in Q1 of 2024. 

 

• France derives about 70% of its electricity from nuclear energy, due to a long-standing policy based on energy security.

• In February 2022 France announced plans to build six new reactors and to consider building a further eight.

• France is the world's largest net exporter of electricity due to its very low cost of generation, and gains over €3 billion per year from this.

• About 17% of France's electricity is from recycled nuclear fuel.
• https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france

Hate to say this, but we should be more like France. 

DeadGator401
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reposts-lewd-remark-about-harris-his-social-media-site-2024-08-29/


Oh look - he did it again. Still mad about the DNC Snag?
 

It's never been difficult for me to say out loud that Trump is an idiot who has and continues to do and say some detestable things.  I don't think you'd find a post on this forum where I ever defended Trump's character because I don't believe that he has any.    
 
It surprises me that you'd defend Beshear on this particular statement and engage in whataboutism on it.  You and I disagree on a lot, but something like that doesn't match up with what I know of you from our interactions here.  
 
 

snagr

DeadGator401
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reposts-lewd-remark-about-harris-his-social-media-site-2024-08-29/


Oh look - he did it again. Still mad about the DNC Snag?
 

It's never been difficult for me to say out loud that Trump is an idiot who has and continues to do and say some detestable things.  I don't think you'd find a post on this forum where I ever defended Trump's character because I don't believe that he has any.    
 
It surprises me that you'd defend Beshear on this particular statement and engage in whataboutism on it.  You and I disagree on a lot, but something like that doesn't match up with what I know of you from our interactions here.  

Beshear put the words Vance said back on him. While uncouth, it's a far cry from what MAGA does every single day. I do find the pearl clutching over Beshear's comments to be a bit schadenfreud-y to be honest. 

You know the saying Dems used to use of "When they go low, we go high?". 
I saw it said the other day a bit differently, "When they go low, be waiting with a knee."

I don't feel it's fair that Doug and Gwen are out campaigning to help the Dems. Melania and Usha don't do that to help their party out. The Dems are cheating again I tell ya!! 4 against 2 is not right.

"Trump vows to cut business tax rate to 15%, create government efficiency commission led by Elon Musk" - fox news headline.
You conservative folks still buying the trickle down economics line? Just askin.

https://www.foxnews.com/p...mmission-led-elon-musk