Proposed 2007/2008 antlerless allocations

This thread should get interesting.....I'm just waiting for it to turn into a crying session for people not seeing enough deer.

ORIGINAL: T.T.

You guys just don't get it.  There's plenty deer.  Just way to many people.

 
I like that way of thinking. 
 
Myself, I seen plenty of deer last year.  Not as many as years past, but still enough to keep me happy.  In 2C on the other hand, the week that I hunted a couple different places in that area that I've always seen deer,  I didn't see a single deer last year.  And no, I don't just get out of the truck and sit on the closest hill.  My brother had a bear walk in front of him, but that was the only action we got out of 2C last year.

I could care less. I bought my last doe tag ever last season. I had the opportunity to fill it 3 times and never did. I dont NEEEEEEEEEEED venison in my freezer, if I have it, great, if I dont...ill buy a roast.

ORIGINAL: S-10

If you own or have access to private land as Drake and some others do then the number of deer shouldn't be a problem since you control the numbers, not the PGC. If you hunt on public land as most do then there are many areas of the state where the herd reduction program has made the probability of success marginal at best for the average hunter.

 
Yes, I do have my own ground to hunt on, but I also hunt gamelands a few days each year in archery. I find that in archery season, there are plenty of deer on the gamelands that I hunt. However, once the gamelands get crowded out in rifle season, those deer seem to disapear. I'm not sure its so much a problem with deer numbers as it is a problem with the number of hunters hunting certain gamelands. I can think of at least 3 local gamelands that have barely been used here in central PA, and when they are used, the hunters will walk about 100 yards from there car, and only sit for 1 hour. Then, they complain that they saw no deer. The gamelands I am talking about are not the easiest hunt because there are a lot of hills to climb, and thick brush to tangle with, but in my opinion, that is where you should be hunting anyway. This is the situation in my area, in central PA, I cant really comment on other areas.
 
Yes, there are fewer deer, but keep in mind we have more hunters in PA than any other state in the country. In my opinion, we also have some of the laziest hunters in the country. As there are fewer deer, we need to get smarter about how we hunt. Unfortunatley, there are plenty of hunters not willing to do that. BTW, I am not talking about anyone on this board, I'm talking about people in the area I live.
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: S-10

Drake-- It's interesting you think we have some of the laziest hunters around. I have hunted 10 states and provinces and without fail Pa hunters have the reputation as being the hardest and most dedicated hunters amoung the guides and other hunters I have talked too. That's not to say we all are but apparently the ones who hunt out of state leave that impression with the locals. The main problem I am having with HR is in my area small groups of hunters are leasing the farms and timber company land and posting them to keep the deer numbers to there liking and not the PGC's. This also pushes more hunters onto the remaining open land which decimates the accessable deer and causes more landowner problems. Sort of like the Steelhead fishery.  P.S. How do I get the (in reply to) to show up on the bottom right of my post?

 
I'm sure a lot of the hunters who leave the state are very dedicated. That is probably why they are hunting in many different states to begin with. Like I said earlier, I am speaking about hunters in my neck of the woods. I couldnt count how many times I've seen blaze orange from a gamelands parking lot or road,at times when there are only one or two cars parked in the lot. I also cant remember how many times i've heard of people getting busted for road hunting around here,during rifle season.
 
PS. to get the "in reply to" to come up, just click on "reply" on the post that you want to respond to.
 

whhhoooooaaa there Jeremy.  Excuse my comments, take them as constructive.
 
25 feet?!? 
 
Why, may I ask?
 
Bad idea for 3 reasons.
 
1. If you fall, you're dead, for sure.  I'm not going to dig but I remember you saying you DON'T wear any safety device while ascending or descending (at least on a hang-on).   1 in 3 hunters fall.  85% of falls occur while ascending/descending.
 
2. Bad angle.  You will miss or spine deer that you otherwise shouldn't have, even if you bend at the waist, even if you shoot a pendulum sight, even if everything is perfect.  If it hasn't happened yet, it will.   What do you think the perfect angle is?  45 degrees?  What's too much of an angle?  We can do some math to figure the closest you should be shooting (in terms of yardage) at a height of 25 feet based on your angle preference..
 
3.  Too high for optimal shooting lanes (at least the Pennsylvania trees I climb).  Right at about 17-18 feet is generally where limbs from other trees start to interfere with shooting lanes.  This can cause deflections, obviously.  This is assuming I'm wanting to shoot at 15-25 yards, which is likely the case.  That said, I don't get up your trees but can be pretty sure you are sacrificing shooting lanes/good angles ... for height, which is not necessary.
 
The good?
 
I really can't think of any.
 
Scent control?  ggrrr.. take a smokebomb up at 25 feet.  Watch the smoke.  Move to 16 feet, light another ...   there's no difference.  There ARE times, although rare, where wind/thermals will lift once they are downwind of you carrying your scent above the animal.  But again, the difference between 16 and 25 is little.   Like you said above...wind, wind, wind.  Scent lok, hunters specialities, scent cover, scent blocker, gumaflauge ... yadda yadda.  I can not say they don't help because certainly they may but anyone who thinks they can fool a whitetails nose is a donuthead.  You're not a donuthead. 
 
Height advantage?  eh.. not really, maybe a little, but again the sacrifice is not worth it.  Whitetails have 330 degree peripheral vision. It is my belief that, if you don't have the correct background and/or pattern, or you move too quickly, you're going to get busted at 7, 14 or 25.  Background cover is more important to me than height, but that's just me.
 
I hope you wear a safety device. 

j--

Actually, the only shot I take is the perfect shot.

Camo with branches is the same reason Sage come out with a new fly rod every year.  It's marketing.  Camo is another interesting topic, which IMO is wayyy overrated (at least product turnover).  Was it really necessary for mossy oak to add a green leaf in their breakup pattern?  For effectiveness?  No.  For marketing?  You bet.  My favorite all-time camo BY FAR is the first realtree ever made... that camo doesn't even have any branches on it.  The more faded it is, the more I like it.   If you keep up on the "in" camo, I think you're only hurting yourself.  Todays camo IMO is wayyyy too dark (except for rainy days when the trees are wet IMO).  These commercials you see on the outdoor channel are under "their" conditions, not real ones.  They create the perfect situation for marketing their product.  While some may blend in better than others .. to the human eye, I don't think it's much of a difference to a deer.  Now, I'm not a deer obviously  .. but I've shot deer in a solid cream sweatshirt before.  To me, not moving while being able to see the deer's eyes is more important than the best camo pattern, or height, or cover, or truthfully, anything........    I have never once, been busted drawing my bow.   Someday, it's going to get me and perhaps on the one I want most BUT .. I take much pride in that and make a point to continue that.  Maybe I've passed on a few opportunities that I could capitialized on because of my pride .. oh well..

Anyway, colors in camo...   keep in mind, I shoot all white arrows, head to toe.  This, seriously, blows people's minds.  People look at me like I'm on crack.     HOWEVER, the last deer I shot with a bow was seriously only about five yards when I first saw her.  She looked up at me 5/6 times.  I (not by choice) was only up about 12 feet .. she was eye level with me.  She saw something goofy obviously, but the pine tree behind me did the job.  Now .. what if I would have been up 25 feet?  I know I wouldn't have taken that shot.  I also try to use double and triple trees for cover.  Some guys make sure all fletchings are dark color in fear of being seen.  I think those fellers are do jumpin-jacks or something.  I had a fella ask me if I thought one yellow fletching was a bad idea .. yet he doesn't notch an arrow until he sees a deer.  HELLLLLLOOOOO!!!!!!!!! 

Anyway .. we must be hunting different types of trees and forests because I couldn't even shoot 25 yards at 25 feet.  You can bet I'm usually getting up in white or red oaks.  The trees I get up have branches at 25 feet, more often than not.  If the branches are higher, chances are I can't get my stand around it.

Good to hear you wear a safety device.  That's what is ultimately important. 

TT .. there's too many people     ......"where you hunt."

You know what to do and you got eight months to do it.  What's it going to be come December....

I've tried 25 feet but not comfortable with it. I like 15 to 20 foot max basicly because I've had too much of a problem shooting down at a bad angle especially early in the season when there is still a lot of folage and those critters creep in on you without you seeing them until they are right under you. I use orange and white fletching on my arrows. When shooting at a steep angle your target/vital area is minimized and there is too much of a chance of a bad hit. Not to mention the strain of shooting from an ackward bent over position which I find very uncomfortable.
 
A harness is a must going up and coming down.....every year you hear of several people severly injured or killed because they either didn't have a harness on or were not using it properly. A fellow I worked with was not useing a harness, fell from his stand and fractured three bones in his neck and broke an arm. He was lucky with three broken bones in his neck and a broken arm. Took a year but he fully recovered. Don't tempt fate!
Just my 2 cents.

ORIGINAL: jlh42581

I wear a hunters saftey system jon boat! ALL THE TIME!

When have you ever had a perfect shot? I can count on one hand the amount of times I have. Yes branches start getting in the way at that height, you gotta just pick your shots, know where they are and not just fling arrows just for the sake of flinging them(not saying you do). At 25 feet Ive never been picked out, at roughly 15, a million times. You should be getting up into those branches so that it breaks up the forground between you and the deer. Everyone always worries about the backdrop but really the foreground is what matters more. Im not saying you dont gotta watch the sun and shadows but for me, 25 feet is the ticket. I like being broken up from all angles. If your not in those branches, then why do they make camo with branches in it? Try it man, get up there with some branches breaking up the foreground of where you think the deer are coming from, if you dont see more deer getting up there, ill buy you lunch .

 
I typically go 18-20 feet in most of my stands. I know exactly how high I go because the rope I use is to pull my bow up the tree is 25 feet long. I very rarely use the full length of the rope.
 
I killed a doe on the first day of archery that was about 8 yards from the base of the tree I was in. I was about 20 feet high in the tree when I shot. The arrow entered the deer High on its left side, and exited low on the opposite side. The arrow passed through both lungs and stopped the deer within 30yds. After retreiving the deer, I realized that if I was much higher in the tree, the arrow would have passed through the deer at much too steep of an angle. I felt confident about the shot, because I had taken this shot from the same tree a few years back. After seeing the results, I have decided not to take close shots like that from anything higher than 20 feet up.
 

LOL