FishinGuy
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knot for leader/tippet connection
What knot do you guys like? In doing some reading, the double surgeons seems to be the standard. This knot seems to break easier than the uni splice or Albright that I normally tie on my spin gear. Is there an advantage to the surgeons that I'm not aware of? Or should I just use what I'm comfortable with?
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trout man
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 08:51:40
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I use the double surgeons knot. Never had a problem with it. You can also add a third wrap and make it stronger. Just remember to moisten it before drawing it tight. As for any advantages, maybe the time involved. The surgeons knot may be quicker to tie. As with most things, go with what your confident and comfortable with.
Tight Lines
Trout Man
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fishingood
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 09:41:29
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Agreed. The double surgeons knot is much simpler to tie than some of the others, and while it may not have as much strength, it's better to tie a simple knot well, than to tie a complex knot poorly.
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D-nymph
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 10:05:27
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Cold
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 10:06:25
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Perfection loop-to-loop. Doesn't require tying a knot with two pieces of differing thickness, and keeps you from slowly nibbling away at your leader all day. With a 2-3' tippet, when you get much less than 18", replace it.
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FishinGuy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 10:27:08
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I like the loop to loop idea. Would certainly Keep me from replacing leaders as often as I do. Im assuming you don't suffer any adverse affects with turnover due to the connection being not as solid as a knot? It does seem like it would be the most bulky/visible in the water of my options though. Fishingood, I can assure you, none of my knots are tied poorly. I'm familiar quick and comfortable with all 7 different knots I use frequently.
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Cold
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 10:46:19
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Im assuming you don't suffer any adverse affects with turnover due to the connection being not as solid as a knot? The necessities of slimer fishing with regard to all the crap attached to your line between your fly line and hook mean that the 'turnover' ship has sailed. You can force just about anything to turn over, but with lead, heavy flies, indicators, double and triple fly rigs, etc. using two knots instead of one is truly the least of the problems with turnover. Visibility-wise, that's why you use the longer tippet and replace it if it gets too short. Alternately, if the water is super low and clear, I'll use an even shorter butt-mid, and use maybe about 3' of tippet after the loop, then use a double surgeon to add 1-2' of finer tippet (say, 3X to 4X, or even 3X to 5X) to keep the loop-to-loop as far from the fish as possible...but I've never hit a situation where I felt that was going to make or break the presentation.
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FishinGuy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 11:01:54
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That makes sense. Thanks man.
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Steeler Fan
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 11:23:51
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I have always used the double surgeons knot to tie the tippet to the leader. It is very simple and when tied correctly is very strong. I also like to use is a small barrel swivel tied to my leader and tie the tippet directly to the swivel. There is no issues with the flies turning over and you know exactly what tippet is on the end.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln
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PITFLY
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 14:53:06
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I use a Nail-knot tool. It makes quick work of knots and holds great. I use a small swivel at the end of my leader and then the Tippet off of that. It saves time using the tool and I haven't had a knot slip on me yet.
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Cold
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 15:05:53
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If you're nail knotting your tippet to your leader, I feel bad for you, son.
Got 99 problems, but a hitch ain't one.
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PITFLY
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 15:13:57
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Maybe not a Nail-Knot.. Whatever the Tie-Fast knot I tie with the tool. It works well for me.
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troutguy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/07 18:35:08
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Steeler Fan
I also like to use is a small barrel swivel tied to my leader and tie the tippet directly to the swivel.
I find myself doing this more and more. Definitely helps especially if you go through tippet fast. I don't do it if fishing with dries though, but it might be ok if you're fishing some really buoyant poppers or something...
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FiveMilePete
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/09 11:18:23
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FishinGuy
What knot do you guys like? In doing some reading, the double surgeons seems to be the standard. This knot seems to break easier than the uni splice or Albright that I normally tie on my spin gear. Is there an advantage to the surgeons that I'm not aware of? Or should I just use what I'm comfortable with?
Always use triple surgeon's knot, because John Nagy, the greatest steelhead fisherman in the world recommended it. I've had very few knot failures (can't remember last one), tippet broke first, or knot at fly.
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Indyflier
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/10 10:29:42
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For me, its the blood knot because it doesn't get hung up on the rod's eyes the way the surgeon sometimes does...and its strong, and I can tie it faster than the surgeon. Cold, I'm curious though, when you use the perfection loop connections, hit a snag and have to breakoff, where does the connection break...at the fly or at the loop connection?
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Cold
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/10 13:48:04
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Indyflier
For me, its the blood knot because it doesn't get hung up on the rod's eyes the way the surgeon sometimes does...
Care to explain that? I'm not doubting your claim, I just don't see at first glance how a blood knot is any less hangup-prone than any other knot. and its strong, and I can tie it faster than the surgeon. Strength and speed. That's what counts!
Cold, I'm curious though, when you use the perfection loop connections, hit a snag and have to breakoff, where does the connection break...at the fly or at the loop connection?
It depends, but in Erie, it usually is somewhere in between, where some shale has scuffed up my line.
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Risen Fly
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/11 15:34:15
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I use a blood knot for most leader to tippet connections. The use of a barrel swivel or tippet ring can help out as well. You can tie a simple clinch knot to attach your tippet to the barrel swivel and leave a 3-4" tag section. Tie a simple overhand knot on the tag section and put some split shot there. When your split shot get hung up on a snag then the overhand knot will let loose and you'll only lose your split shot rather than your whole rig.
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Cold
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/11 15:46:08
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I really like that idea, Risen Fly. Thanks for sharing. Might have to try it myself in...oh...14-15 hours... 
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Risen Fly
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/11 15:51:24
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The nice thing too is that if you do snap off your fly, it ALWAYS snaps before the swivel so you never lose your whole leader. Just attach another few feet of tippet to the swivel and back to fishing.
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Indyflier
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/12 09:15:08
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"Care to explain that? I'm not doubting your claim, I just don't see at first glance how a blood knot is any less hangup-prone than any other knot."
When I tie the surgeon, it seems to have a higher profile, and I'm not confident enough to snip the tag ends right on the knot. Fully appreciate the hang-up is due to tying-error, which I don't seem to experience with the blood. Thanks for your help, Cold. I'll loop tippets and try them out next time I'm in Erie.
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shmoe
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/31 06:03:04
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whats a tippit? haha i still dont understand the principles behind it or purpose.
i use 8 lb mono connected right to my fly line using the Albright knot. anyone ever use this knot? Used it the other day but i only caught a couple tiny fish.
anyway, fly line to 8lb mono to 6 lb flouro (i use the triple surgeons for the flouro connection)
how bout for fly tandem connections? do you tie to the hook itself?
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FishinGuy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/31 06:43:45
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☄ Helpfulby shmoe 2013/10/31 15:38:41
In your case the tippet is your 6lb flouro. Its just the end section of your complete leader that you attach your fly to. Your piece of 8lb mono is likely hindering your casting ability a bit. Fly fishing leaders and spin fishing leaders are very different. Fly leaders have a taper to them that helps transfer the power of the fly line all the way to your tippet. They come either premade with a smooth transition or you can tie your own with typically 3 pieces of progressively lighter line to get the stiffness to step down. I'm new at this myself, but that's a basic explanation of leader and tippet. Lots more info to learn about it on Google if you do some searching.
post edited by FishinGuy - 2013/10/31 07:39:46
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FishinGuy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/10/31 07:37:00
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☄ Helpfulby shmoe 2013/10/31 15:38:36
A nail knot or loop to loop is typically used to connect leader to fly line. For a tandem I usually use a Palomar on the first fly, then tie the trailing fly on the tag end of that, no slip mono loop is good for streamers.
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FiveMilePete
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/11/02 17:11:16
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FishinGuy
In your case the tippet is your 6lb flouro. Its just the end section of your complete leader that you attach your fly to. Your piece of 8lb mono is likely hindering your casting ability a bit. Fly fishing leaders and spin fishing leaders are very different. Fly leaders have a taper to them that helps transfer the power of the fly line all the way to your tippet. They come either premade with a smooth transition or you can tie your own with typically 3 pieces of progressively lighter line to get the stiffness to step down. I'm new at this myself, but that's a basic explanation of leader and tippet. Lots more info to learn about it on Google if you do some searching.
I just use 3 feet of 20 lb ultragreen, followed by 3 to 4 feet 12 lb ultragreen, then 3 to 4 feet 5 or 6 lb ultragreen or fluoro, depending on conditions. All connected by triple surgeons knot, then leader link or castwell knot to fly line. Castwell takes about 1 second to tie, and I've never had it fail. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/castwell.php
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FishinGuy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/11/05 08:03:43
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Wow. That castwell looks too simple to work. But, I certainly believe you.
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shmoe
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/11/05 12:57:41
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Hm. Yep i noticed at the end of my cast my leader gets looped up.. I tried tappered tippets at first but i cut and re-tie so much it wasnt workin for me.. Ill try 3 consecutive flouro sizes next time and see how it goes.. Im definitely getting better and faster with the triple surgeons knot. I was just thinkin.. Mono floats dosnt it? Flouro might help me out a lot for gettin my flys to sink
post edited by shmoe - 2013/11/05 13:00:19
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FishinGuy
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Re: knot for leader/tippet connection
2013/11/05 17:42:18
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If your properly tapered leader is getting knotted up/not straightening out, its likely technique or too heavy of a fly. Practice makes perfect. There's lots of good videos on YouTube about proper casting techniques. Mono is neutrally buoyant. Flour does sink, but not like a stone.
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