pikepredator2
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HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
not trying to stir controversy here, just looking for honest opinions on the EJs self-imposed rule of having to keep every perch you catch regardless of size (does the Danny O also have this rule?). Granted it's their boat, but as a paying customer should i be expected to have to obey a size rule that isn't even a fish commission law? not every fish is going to die or have a protuding stomach or air bladder problems just because they're pulled up from the depths. if i'm on the EJ and reeling up slowly enough as to not harm the fish and use barbless hooks to further minimize the damage, then why can't i simply release the unharmed fish in order to catch a larger one? Just to let everyone know, i myself use the above 2 mentioned methods to be able to return dinks to the water. even gonna try the "dink bucket" method (seperate bucket of water to keep dinks swimming in till they return to normal) mentioned in a previous post my next time out. any thoughts?
post edited by pikepredator2 - 2012/07/31 08:54:33
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freshwaterdrumR
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/07/31 08:54:05
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I guess they dont expect a boat of 35 or 40 people with varying fishing skills to understand the right way to release a perch. Instead of policing and explaining this it is easier to just say you catch it you keep it. Yes you should be expected to obey their rules. It is their boat.
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Trader Jack
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/07/31 15:51:37
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Been fishing for a few years on the Edward John now and am a regular member of the blue army. I don't have a problem with the dink issue. Its just an ethics thing. I've tried the dink bucket method a couple of times and half of them still die. Guess I'm too anxious to get them up. How slow is the right speed to bring them up so they don't die? Easy in the spring in shallow water, but now in 55 ft. like yesterday, I don't think so. If the dinks die after you bring them up I believe they count toward your limit even if you toss them.
post edited by Trader Jack - 2012/07/31 15:52:43
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pikepredator2
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/07/31 19:59:30
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OK Trader, you just gave me a reason the EJ captain would have this policy. Yes, a thrown back fish that dies counts towards your limit. If you've released a fish that you think is unharmed and the fish commission witnesses the fish die, I would guess the head boat captain could be tagged for limit violations along with the fishermen doing it. Question answered.
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akitadog
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 12:43:49
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I would think that the fisherman is responsable for knowing their limit and how many they have, not the the captain. The captain is not going to or be expected to go around and count everybodies fish on the boat. Since i been cranking the perch up slow i have not landed 1 with a bladder popped out . If the hook is deep i will keep the dinks, but if i am catching nice size fish i am throwing back the dinks. 3 hour drive plus lisence plus perch rigs plus the time to clean them, i am keeping what ever size i want to keep like it or not. If you crank them up slow you will not have a bladder problem.
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CKM
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 13:48:02
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What you are referring to here is Catastrophic Decompression Syndrome (CDS). Research has shown that the physiological effects of CDS are wide-ranging, including hemorrhaging, extensive internal organ damage to liver, heart and the digestive tract. Trauma is often not externally visible and mortality is not immediate. Some fish species, such as lake trout, can release the air from their swim bladder very quickly (physostomes) because their air bladder has a duct for releasing gas quickly. Other species such as yellow perch (physioclists) cannot release gas quickly because their air bladder is closed and the gas must be released through diffusion. You may think that bringing that perch up slowly reduces air bladder problems, but research has shown that on AVERAGE (varies by species); the retrieval rate would have to be about 1 meter/hour to minimize the effects of CDS. If you were fishing in 50 feet of water, it would take about 15 hours to reel in that perch to ensure no ill effects from CDS. Here's another good research paper on perch, walleye and bass on the St. Lawrence River: Holding the smaller fish for later release would be considered culling and is illegal in Pennsylvania. Again – the best practice (legally and ethically) is to keep the fish you catch in deep waters. Chuck Murray, PFBC Lake Erie Biologist
post edited by CKM - 2012/08/02 12:31:22
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Deer Archer
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 14:17:24
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Chuck, that could be the greatest educational post ever. THANK YOU FOR POSTING!!!
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freshwaterdrumR
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 14:42:36
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Thanks for the info Chuck! How about walleye? Is it ok to release ones on the smaller side or would it be better to keep them when caught in deep water?
post edited by freshwaterdrumR - 2012/08/01 14:46:04
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FishinGuy
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 16:27:09
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Anyone ever try a vent tool on a perch?
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CKM
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 17:09:09
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DrumR, There is always some probability of mortality with catch and release of any fish. It can be low if conditions are right (shallow, cool, size of fish, minimal handling, etc….), or high if conditions are less favorable (deep, warm, etc…). Walleye are usually caught at intermediate depths (mid-water), so the effects of CDS are reduced. Fortunately, most of our anglers are keeping the perch and walleye they catch. Based on our open lake boat angler surveys from 1996-2011, about 21% of the perch are throw backs and 14% of the walleye are thrown back. From ~1999-2005, we had a standing year-round 8” minimum size limit (MSL) on perch on Lake Erie and Presque Isle Bay, which mandated release of small perch. We were (rightfully) criticized by many anglers who wanted to keep the perch they caught out in the lake because “they were going to die anyway”. A 7” MSL remains in effect during the ice fishing season on Presque Isle Bay. We feel that mortality of perch caught in the bay during the winter do not exhibit the high mortality rate that perch caught during the summer in the open lake show. Our management rational for the MSL on Presque Isle Bay can be found at http://www.fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/afm/2001/afm1_leru_01.htm We have submitted a research proposal to look at the mortality of recreationally caught and released perch and walleye in our waters. We hope to have more definitive information specific to our local fishery and make scientifically based recommendations to anglers to minimize the effects of catch and release mortality. Thanks to all for your consideration, Chuck
post edited by CKM - 2012/08/02 12:34:28
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XtopwaterkingX
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/01 21:34:51
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Right on, thanks for the info!
Good to see somebody using there degree haha
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eyesandgillz
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/02 00:25:09
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Thanks for the heads up CKM. Now that I think about it, guess keeping them in a bucket for later release does meet the definition of culling. What are your thoughts on venting? I know it is mandatory to carry a venting tool when bottom fishing the gulf of mexico now but there has been a backlash against it (and to the feds overall stifling restrictions on red snapper seasons/bag limits but that is WAY off topic). Article against venting: http://www.snookfoundation.org/news/release/506-end-the-travesty-of-venting-fish.html
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CKM
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Re:HEAD BOATS AND FISH SIZE
2012/08/02 12:41:17
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‘gillz, Most fisheries agencies don’t recommend fizzing (or venting). The PFBC discourages this practice because of the difficulty in applying the method effectively, suspecting that latent mortality may be high due to internal organ damage. Many anglers who practice fizzing are actually puncturing the stomach, or causing other internal organ damage. When fizzing is utilized, it is usually reserved for those species that are frequently released, such as smallmouth bass. I don’t see the need to fizz a species that you’re targeting for food and is legal to harvest (no size restriction). I appreciate the opportunity to respond to this thread because I feel this is an important issue. When I give public presentations on our perch fishery, this is one of the issues I emphasize. Thanks again, Chuck
post edited by CKM - 2012/08/02 12:45:15
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