altmar school

     Been seein stuff around where the Altmar Elementary School may have to be closed and possibly sold. Tough decisions in a tough economy.
   Have also seen where a Tribe may be interested in buying the property- might be good news for the Town of Altmar as that kinda place is hard to market and a sale would certainly help.
    Dont know any of this firsthand and have been picking up bits and pieces on the various Forums.
  My suspicious mind  is always overly concerned with SR access and  is buzzing.
  I do not know the answers here but would have a question or two-
    Does the State have fishermans access along the schools riverfront property ??
    Would a new owner -whoever it becomes- if anyone at all- be able to post this like others have done after a purchase on the SR-or even develop a mini DSR.
   My inclination would be that the State didnt have to buy such access as it was Govt property when that access purchasing was goin on.  Hope I'm just bein negative and way wrong--but then-- who knows??
  One thing for sure- if this stretch ever was lost it would just about fire up a storm--might be a good thing in the long run--IF it ever happened.
  Might be too late for the General Public Altmar fishing though if that ever happened w/o the access being granted ( which it may well already be).
  ANSWERS or educated speculation appreciated----(again- hoping i'm just bein a suspicious  old phart)

Pa- thats good to hear-thanks for the info- BTW how far down does that ROW go-  right to Ellis??
 Personally I have only fished that area between Altmar lot and Ellis twice in well over 30 years on the river but know its very popular for others.
  ( thanks for not mentioning the 'old phart'  thing)

I think the school owns both banks.  I would be highly suspect that there are not PFR on both banks.  I do not think they would put themselves at any liability for any incidents that happen there.   Example I can go walk on the schools track, but if they do not maintain it and I trip and fall I could sue them.   Could be wrong though. 
I will come out of the bag, I heard the rumor and there is whatsoever NO facts behind it.  I heard it from someone who, although I consider credible,  may or may not have based what they told me on facts.

Thanks, Jack for the correct info. That side is difficult to fish (at least through the barrel )and is my favorite stretch. I often get it to myself, as you have to cast stuffed right in the trees if it's over 500  and actually have to walk a  little ways to get there. If it becomes a Casino, I would guess walking through the field will be out, I just hope it doesn't bring even more crowds. I think the State should take it over and make it into a jail. Have the inmates pick up trash on the river  and have a place to put poachers....

They're permanent easements.  They can close off the walk through the field, not the path alongside the river, as long as it's within 33' of the bank.  Hopefully that'll keep it from becoming Dawn's Hole North. 

fichy

They're permanent easements.  They can close off the walk through the field, not the path alongside the river, as long as it's within 33' of the bank.  Hopefully that'll keep it from becoming Dawn's Hole North. 

That was always my perspective on it. I know of two households just upstream from the school in which they told me that fisherman have the right to walk the bank as long as they access from the 52 bridge. They CAN NOT trespass for access. Id find it a little funny if the river bank behind the school isnt the same...

Just went to the DEC info page on river easements that PAFSHER suggested  coupla of posts back- Good info and thanks PA.
  Seems the entire river above the town of  Pulaski has one side or the other -mostly both- open to fishing.
   That stretch I just mentioned in my last post is only open on the North bank- -so much for memories- musta been fisher friendly property owners in the past- thanks folks- - South was THE side there-but the islands are great to fish from too.
 Not much shown through Pulaski and it makes me thank the Town for keeping all its public property and parks open for us.
  Gotta wonder bout walkin into the River and fishing from islands and the like where its only open on one side??? Guess it might depend on how fisher friendly the other side owners get and how far they will go in keeping us out.
   Wonder if the Easements go to the middle or stop at the river edge or include the whole river  -just dont step on the other side kinda thing.--Suppose it means knowing exactly where the far side bank owners actual property line is.
   There are web sites that show property lines and I'm gonna be looking at them and maybee copying them to carry for when I fish certain places.
  Kinda squashes the stories bout folks buying places and posting them and keeping guys OUT-have read that stuff on various forums and suggest guys copy and carry these maps in case of 'issues'. Some new owners may choose to ignore the easements or simply not be aware of them. No diff than mineral or timber rights or other kinda rights of way on properties. New owners commonly and improperly cut off deeded rights of way to their convenience all over -not just on the SR.
 Not any paths shown cept from the parking lots so those who gotta limit our walkin have issues but generally it looks to be  a good thing. 
    The  State of NY has done a good job with its intent to have this a open fishery.IMHO.
  Like to see  the state walk the easements and remove any NO signs and repost the easement signs. Think it may have gotten kinda fuzzy in some areas.

Come on RT we discussed this to death awhile ago and if you recall the links and info on what is an easement of PFR and what the difference is to what is an access easement .
Both are completely different and the landowner that makes the deal get paid different .
They are forever and transfers to any land sales.

It really comes down to OUR responsibility to know the rules for the activities we do

MY bad..Never intended to mess up your internet or cause a stir..
I understand your concern about loss of access.. Just didn't want to go into the whole PFR thing again..
Sometimes we think we lose something we may never had too..
What I'm getting at is just because we may think access is acceptable when in reality it wasn't right..
Many times I walked past that school just wondering if this was really legit.. Seen kids and teachers outside and was never told "not".. Well about 6 or 7 possibly longer  years ago I seen small white signs all along the boundary saying No fishermen trespass or something along those lines..  To me it seemed then it was not legit to cross through there but I still did (do) .. Am I right or wrong , I don't know without doing the leg work to contact the village so I "skate" until I am told otherwise.. Years ago I learned that sometimes it's best to let a sleeping dog lie..
If in that is the case where we are trespassing then clearly we never lost anything we didn't have..
 
Point being and not to be an asshat, lol. is , we are just fishermen on a fishing forum.. While we may influence the rules, regs and laws , us here don't write them.. At least not me..
The best information is from the source, those that do write them ..We here can have a great discussion and I can give an opinion or Quote of the regs, I cant give you their interpretation of the laws..
Contact the NYDEC, Local Enocn Officer or the Town board for their view, which I know you did about trash (thank you) , and ask for documentation from them..
 
P.S.
After looking and zooming in on the South bank PFR, it is pretty accessible STILL if you park at the Malindia's lot... Just a little longer walk and a little (sorry Charlie) less water..
Looks to me it's still most of the pool..
 
P.S.S.
Sorry too , I don't read much of other sites but the ones I do are hilarious..
 
 
 
 
 

In some way ..
I have fished the tombstones  a long time, quite some time ago.. Once the cabin was built above on the corner I knew it was over.. Soon after, the chain and access was blocked to the grave yard..
Alittle earlier then that to the kids playground.
It was just a bit more shocking then for the road side parkers at the bone yard (no public parking lot except 2 A) ..   Still a walk in ..
 
Really though:
 I think there is still very good public access to that short river system..
We are lucky here in NY to have these types of water available..
Unless you spend ridiculous amounts of money to fish  , where else can one compare to those species from a shore angler? And  about  9 months of the year ??
 
I love the past too.. It's memories , some good, some not so..
Now we are here .. It's all about the future, which is what I totally get on access from your point of view..
Stewards of the fishery is what we need to promote from us old FARTS !!  
 
I stumbled into R.I. recently. So tell me a little about C.T.
 
 

Trev, that's what I like about fishing north of Boston. A fair amount of shore access. Took me years to learn and I find more all the time. The Parker River National Wildlife Refuge provides about 10 miles of estuary and 7 miles of beach front. You gotta like to walk, though. Parking is an issue. I pay 100 to 200 dollars every year for passes and stickers. Trying to find parking in places like Watch Hill makes the SR look tame. 
 

Way back in the 1990's my town sold one of the schools for the same reason. BAD MOVE, it will cost 10x more to build a new one if needed and they can never get that location back. The best thing to do if enrollment is down is to rent the space, offices, dance classes art classes, cultural center..........the town can make some money and still have ownership of the property with a lease.  That way they can renew the lease for a few years at a time with prices that attract people and not renew when the need arises again.
It is a win win for everyone in these tough times.

We are redoing 2  High Schools at the same time here Clint. They each carry bout 1,000 students plus staff - is going to cost well over $100,000,000 for a like new reconstruction. You are correct in the code grandfathering. The cost to bring an old building up to present standards can be so cumbersome that a complete new building is actually a much better deal.
  Might I suggest that at the next  meeting- or even before- the suggestion may be made that some cash influx might be gained by offering the South side river access for fishing to the State.
  Some may feel that restriction may inhibit a sale of the building but frankly I think they are dreaming bout selling it for any fishing related thingie. I understand its bout the only thing happening there but thats a big  commitment or gamble  for somebody for up there when even some motels aint making it.

  We are in the process of tearing down an old factory not much bigger than that school. The Enviro folks have a field day with your budget when takin down old stuff.
  Sometimes I think the Enviro extremists control some of these Fed and State agencies. We had ONE old School window ( yes one) hold up a school addition for months.
 There is a reason pvt owners give up old places for back taxes-   Fortuantely there are numerous State and FEd grants available to help Towns- dont really think that small Altmar has the tax resources even for the remainder in such an undertaking.
  Heck they considered folding into another town bout a year ago over tax issues as I recall.
.Dime -Dont think the useable acreage would be any place close to 30 and nearby land is much cheaper than 400 even along the river. Gotta subtract common roadways and such as well as the land close to the SR on both sides. Buildable would be a lot less than the 30. If they did get 400 after a teardown they might not even break even.
  Too bad really -Altmar is a nice friendly country place and i really kinda like it=now they might end up with an elephant in the yard. Hope for their sake it sells.