DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
Look What I Found
I was guiding a hunt Saturday at a preserve and came upon this.  Since the hunt was progressing, I didn't stop to investigate the situation. After the hunt, I took the owner out and we had a closer look. Even with the amount of time he spends on that particular ground, he never saw this buck before. A closer look showed this:  The LO, who is an archery hunter, identified the broadhead as a Thunderhead 100. The deer was located just about in the geographic center of a 500 acre square parcel of land that is posted because of the preserve, so the deer traveled quite a distance before expiring, no matter where it came from. This is in a 3-point area, so it was a legal deer.
post edited by DarDys - 2011/11/21 11:03:59
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/21 17:24:53
(permalink)
Another reason why archers should know their limits. Really hard to say what happen here but pics such as these I hope will send a message. Thanks for posting.
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/11/21 18:17:23
|
Claypool313
Expert Angler
- Total Posts : 449
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2007/07/28 15:17:11
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/21 18:11:39
(permalink)
100 grain Thunderhead was exactly what I first thought when saw the pic. Hard to say, but looks like a too far forward hit. But who knows, the broadhead could have been moved by scavengers. I won't pass judgment b/c you just never know the full story. The only thing you can say for sure is that it sucks the hunter could not recover the deer.
|
bulldog1
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 5203
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2008/06/05 12:23:00
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/21 21:25:50
(permalink)
Definitely a thunderhead, can't tell what grain as there's not much difference in how they look. Too many possible reasons to speculate on the why's... Shame it was wasted though...
|
griffon
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 1104
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 07:24:22
(permalink)
Not to start an arguement, but I absolutely hate Thunderheads. There was a time that I worked in a large proshop and the big 4 heads were Satellites, Razorbacks, Muzzys and Thunderheads. Granted, Thunderheads outsold the others, but there was always and I mean ALWAYS a much higher number of wounded deer reports with them than with any other head it seemed (other than possibly the Puckett's...). I think the biggest issue always has been to get them flying true, which greatly limited their penetration in many situations. There were large variances from head to head and they used a rubber O ring to "level" the head to the shaft. Just my two cents.
post edited by griffon - 2011/11/22 08:49:31
|
dpms
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3546
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
- Status: online
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 07:37:50
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: griffon
There was a time that I worked in a large proshop and the big 4 heads were Satellites, Razorbacks, Muzzys and Thunderheads.
Satellites, Now there is a blast from the past. The first broadhead I ever used. I still have a few laying around somewhere. I don't remember the name of the model I had but I do recall the wispy thin and solid blades. A drastic difference from todays technology.
My rifle is a black rifle
|
DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 07:47:27
(permalink)
I'm not really passing judement on anyone. Sooner or later, if one hunts enough, something will go wrong and this type of thing happens -- bow, modern firearm, muzzleloader, whatever. I just found it interesting 1) to find the deer; 2) that it obviously has been dead a long time and no other dogs or hunters found it; 3) that the broadhead was so easily visible, lying right out in the open and 4) that where the deer was found that it had to travel at least a mile in almost any direction to get there, unless shot from a road while it was on posted property and then it would have to travel at least 1,000 to 1,500 yards.
Nothing was moved, so it looks like the shot was either too far forward or it solidly hit a shoulder blade and didn't penetrate any further. I believe the shaft insert was still on the broadhead, but there was no sign of an arrow/bolt shaft anywhere.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|
SilverKype
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3842
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2005/01/24 11:58:02
- Location: State
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 09:38:46
(permalink)
Come on Shawn, the bigfeets got the deer and you placed the broadhead there cause you don't like archers. 
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
|
DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 10:14:25
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: SilverKype
Come on Shawn, the bigfeets got the deer and you placed the broadhead there cause you don't like archers.
Ah, you got me.  Actually, when I found the deer, I thought that perhaps it had been hit on the road and had wondered that far before expiring. I would never have thought that it could have traveled that far after being arrowed -- see my explanation of the distance to Doc. Because I had a hunt in progress, I didn't check things out too closely when I found it. After the hunt, the LO came out and he actually spotted the broadhead, I never saw it until he pointed it out -- simply because I wasn't looking for one. And you should know better. Bigfeets always eat the hooves and antlers first.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 11:07:43
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: griffon
Not to start an arguement, but I absolutely hate Thunderheads. There was a time that I worked in a large proshop and the big 4 heads were Satellites, Razorbacks, Muzzys and Thunderheads. Granted, Thunderheads outsold the others, but there was always and I mean ALWAYS a much higher number of wounded deer reports with them than with any other head it seemed (other than possibly the Puckett's...). I think the biggest issue always has been to get them flying true, which greatly limited their penetration in many situations. There were large variances from head to head and they used a rubber O ring to "level" the head to the shaft. Just my two cents.
Can't blame the head. The archer is responsible for his equipment to be top notch. Set up and practice is the number one factor in killing a deer quickly. Sometimes I had to retune to get the TH's to fly but that's part of the game. If the heads don't fly properly, stay home. Every head should be spun on a spinning jig to check for perfect alignment after installing new blades. If they don't, keep at it till they do, you owe it to the game your hunting.
|
griffon
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 1104
- Reward points: 0
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 11:21:03
(permalink)
While I agree OA and spin testing is definitely a good thing, I can say for a fact that I can go right now with my bow and shoot perfect tear groups all day long with Muzzy's, Hellrazors, G5's, Sonics, TLocs, Innerlocs, Wasps, Magnus Stingers, or any other number of heads (I might not give all of them an A+ for performance...). I would almost bet a paycheck though that If you give me 10 random Thunderheads and I screwed them on and shot them, at least two would give inconsistant flight. In the end you are correct, it is the archer's responsibility to know the performance of every arrow/head on every shot. For all we know, this arrow may have flown perfectly and just struck a bit forward. Hit that shoulder wrong and any head will "fail" so to speak.
|
retired guy
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3107
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/26 15:49:55
- Location: ct-vacation place in Richland
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 18:37:28
(permalink)
Would agree quickly with Dar that the deer had certainly been there for some time and was likely shot elsewhere- some food for thought though-- One point though is that in some conditions- specially out in the sun even a human body can be reduced to just bone and some skin in as little as 10 days in moderate weather and exposed like that. Have investigated a couple like that and woulda swore they were out for much longer- however investigation found they were not. One of my retired Warden cousins always says wherever there is a piece of woods SOMEBODY is hunting it- legal or not. Think of how often ya hear shots from properties that are closed when your in the woods. Then imagine how many bow hunters--scratch that - bow poaching slobs- are sneakin in with quiet weaponry. They may not be as quick to follow up on a hit as the rest of us are. Not arguing just throwin out some stuff---
post edited by retired guy - 2011/11/23 20:25:03
|
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 18:49:11
(permalink)
bow poaching slobs WOW. Closed doesn't always mean closed to every human being, just the ones the owner doesn't want there.
|
retired guy
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3107
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/26 15:49:55
- Location: ct-vacation place in Richland
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 21:06:57
(permalink)
Have bumped into more poaching bow hunters on Pvt property here in Ct than gun hunters over the years. Probably cause some bring their stands and stuff with them and stay in one place longer so ya can key in onem in a few days. - seems some just think there is less chance of gettn caught with a quiet weapon and full camo in an early season. Nontheless ==poachers. Slobs--yes-- you and I and most all here on the forum do all the legal things as well as other efforts to obtain permission and follow the laws - likem or not- pertaining to out sport. These guys just move in and try to take game with no respect or consideration for the laws or what we must do to enjoy the same hunt-who will the law or landowner look for if something 'bad' happens- yea- you and I- not the sneaky poacher----YES- SLOB- either they didnt ask the landowner or that owner told them no - none the less they are there. Should point out that here in CT one MUST carry written permission from the landowner to legally hunt a property- may be different than your state.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/11/22 21:19:53
|
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 22:05:51
(permalink)
Sounds like a rifle with a muzzle silencer would be the way to poach. Hunting with a bow would mean more time on the property and increase your odds of getting caught.
|
retired guy
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 3107
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/26 15:49:55
- Location: ct-vacation place in Richland
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/22 22:08:30
(permalink)
Agree OA- some guys just do what ever they want to do-----Not sayin they arent bow hunters just that they do it 'their way' an dont care whos toes they step on. Imajine gettin a property to hunt on- working for that permission- gettin all the tags and puttin the time in scouting an finding some guy 50 yds down 'your' trail who simply decided to hunt that place illegally??
post edited by retired guy - 2011/11/22 22:11:18
|
DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 07:28:11
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures
bow poaching slobs WOW. Closed doesn't always mean closed to every human being, just the ones the owner doesn't want there.
While I won't say that no one can be on these properties, it is very unlikely. This property is an active phesant hunting preserve. That means that there are hunts going on every day (except Sunday, of course) and activity from just about dawn to dark. In addition, the only wooded areas are very small, one area about two acres is right next to the owner's brother's house and the other is about five acres and to access it, one would need to walk the entire width of the property through open fields. It is not likely that someone was in either of those. The same is true of the two sides of the property bordered by the other preserve -- plenty of activity, every day except Sunday -- actually more activity because they book more hunts and have more hunters afield. Also, I can't tell you were there are any wooded areas on that property. As far as one can see from the roads, and that is quite a distance, it is all fields. As for the well-to-do person on the longest border, no one is on his property. As mentioned, he has video surveilence and a security team patroling -- I guess that is what is needed if the house if several million dollars, the property with improvements is more, and you want privacy which you can afford. That only leaves the small boarder with the business. It is actually across a hard road and for someone to access it, they would need to walk right past the business buildings or access it from more than a mile away. Like I said, this deer traveled a long distance. I agree that it is difficult to say how long it was dead.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|
bulldog1
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 5203
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2008/06/05 12:23:00
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 12:30:57
(permalink)
While I think they're a definite minority... The largest set of Elk antlers I've ever seen were poached by a bow hunter...
I have used thunderheads for quite a while now and have never had any of the issues that you speak of, but I don't take shots that are questionable and also practice a lot when I'm archery hunting...
|
eyesandgillz
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4042
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2003/06/18 11:30:03
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 14:29:17
(permalink)
Dardys,
Wow, I learn something new every day. I thought you were allowed to hunt on preserves (where no license is needed), on Sundays. You can hunt on big game preserves in PA on Sundays.
Is that just a policy of the place you frequent?
|
RSB
Expert Angler
- Total Posts : 932
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2010/08/11 22:55:57
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 20:20:23
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bulldog1
While I think they're a definite minority... The largest set of Elk antlers I've ever seen were poached by a bow hunter...
I have used thunderheads for quite a while now and have never had any of the issues that you speak of, but I don't take shots that are questionable and also practice a lot when I'm archery hunting...
|
SmMouthSeeker
Expert Angler
- Total Posts : 541
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/08/11 13:39:47
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 20:49:40
(permalink)
Should point out that here in CT one MUST carry written permission from the landowner to legally hunt a property- may be different than your state.
ORIGINAL: retired guy
We have the same law here in PA as you do in CT. I always carry written permission slips when I'm in the stand, but I have never had anyone ask to see them. Most LO I have asked, would rather give me verbal permission, instead of writing one out or signing their name to one of my own.
Darby, I apologize to you on behalf of all Archery hunters. I like to give the benefit of the doubt to that joker that he did everything he could to find it.
I agree with the comments re:poaching. I have left the woods many times feeling frustrated and ****ed off because of other people's ignorance. Some people, rather it's in Archery or rifle will not follow up on a deer after the shot. I've seen deer drop near my rifle stand and lay there all day without being picked up.
|
DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 21:29:32
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz
Dardys,
Wow, I learn something new every day. I thought you were allowed to hunt on preserves (where no license is needed), on Sundays. You can hunt on big game preserves in PA on Sundays.
Is that just a policy of the place you frequent?
No there is not hunting on upland preserves in PA on Sundays. Some get around the PGC rule by having a club in which dues are paid rather than paying for birds. However, to be in strict complience with the regs, club grounds must be separate from retail commercial hunting areas and cannot ever be used for retail hunts. I have no idea about big game hunts on Sundays. On a side note, I had a discussion with the LO today and we kicked around that perhaps the deer did not die directly from the broadhead, but rather from an infection associated with the wound. Because the deer was found in such a short time proximity to this archery season, it was presumed that it was shot this year. That may not be the case and the deer may have subcumbed to a wound it suffered last late season or last early season an dit took that long for an infection to kill it. We will never know.
post edited by DarDys - 2011/11/23 21:33:07
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/23 22:03:46
(permalink)
I have no idea about big game hunts on Sundays. Yes,Example:http: //www.tiogaboarhunting.com/
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/11/23 22:04:13
|
World Famous
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 2213
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/02/13 14:36:59
- Location: Johnstown
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/24 05:50:46
(permalink)
Classic grey wolf kill scene. I have seen it often since they were brought into the state. Come on Dar,don't try to BS us that it was an old arrow wound. Real easy to stick that old broadhead in for the picture. I'm WAY too smart for you.....WF
|
BloodyHand
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 2169
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/03/30 08:20:46
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/25 23:57:45
(permalink)
It musta just rained, cuz that broadhead looks awfully clean.
|
DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/26 08:10:39
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: BloodyHand
It musta just rained, cuz that broadhead looks awfully clean.
Actually it poured here for a couple of days. I never thought of that, but it does look clean. The bones look pretty clean too. In fact, there was no meat on anything as far as I could tell. Being on a preserve there is no shortage of clean up critters on carrion. Since I don't archery hunt, I wouldn't know a Thunderhead from a thunder cloud. The LO does archery hunt, but he typically doesn't hunt that property and when he does he said he uses Rage, whatever that is.
post edited by DarDys - 2011/11/26 08:17:54
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|
S-10
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 5185
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2005/01/21 21:22:55
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/26 08:31:04
(permalink)
It's not uncommon to lose a few deer during archery season. It is not uncommon for folks to find a few later as all seasons come after archery season and many people are out in the woods. There are many more in the woods after gun season but as there are not very many folks out in the woods they are seldom seen. They don't go to waste as something always enjoys the additional protein.
|
DarDys
Pro Angler
- Total Posts : 4938
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
- Location: Duncansville, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Look What I Found
2011/11/29 08:56:44
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: S-10
It's not uncommon to lose a few deer during archery season. It is not uncommon for folks to find a few later as all seasons come after archery season and many people are out in the woods. There are many more in the woods after gun season but as there are not very many folks out in the woods they are seldom seen. They don't go to waste as something always enjoys the additional protein.
Agreed == all types of hunters lose deer. While we don't like it, but it happens. Again, this was not intended to be anything other than a cool photo with an unexpected discovery. I am sure that the mice, opies, skunks, crows, vultures, tweety birds, hawks, feral cats, etc. enjoyed the free meal.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
|