ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

All" must represent the PGC in a professional manner and I'm not seeing that

That's true with any profession, there is always a few bad apples in any organizations, but most folks do not hold the entire organization at blame just because of a few like you do..

Call me a basher or say my comments are 90% negative

I'd say they were more like 95%

This type of attitude of never being wrong and past experiences of being lied to or tricked has left much of our woods vacant

I doubt any WCO or deputy has caused anyone to stop hunting, and if it did they were not much of a sportsman (hunter)in the first place...

I'd never let another person cause me to quit hunting or fishing and I do not believe for one minute it would cause anyone else to quit either.. I call BS !!!

When a WCO or DWCO gets out of control

Now that's funny.. when did a WCO get out of control ????

Did they kill someone ?? injure someone ?? beat someone up ?? threaten someone ???

What did they do that was "out of control" ???

just more BS.....

Nice to express your opinion and to me it doesn't mean squat ! I'll only give you one example of a WCO out of control because in my opinion your not worth replying to.

Since you are fimaiier with the Clarion river remember the WCO who made those girls stand there in their underwear until police arrived ? Now tell everyone how the WCO was just doing his job Trout.




Judge says WCO erred in detaining swimmers

By Rodney L. Sherman, Clarion News Editor
http://www2.theclarionnews.com/General_News/52025.shtml
PAINT TWP. -- A Clarion County district judge has ruled a wildlife conservation officer did not have the authority to detain five Clarion University students until state police could arrive at the scene and charge the students with underage consumption of alcohol.
(snip)
The incident began, however, when Wildlife Conservation Officer Rodney Bimber and deputy wildlife conservation officer Andy Troutman were returning from assisting local and state police.
Bimber and Troutman were stationed at the top of the Toby Hill in Highland Township after a robbery in Clarion Borough watching for any suspicious activity related to the robbery.
Returning to Clarion, Bimber and Troutman allegedly observed a male, who appeared to be intoxicated and staggering, wearing only boxer shorts, on the Toby bridge. As Bimber and Troutman returned to the bridge, the male allegedly ran to "the rock" on the Highland Township side of the bridge and warned a gathering of people that law enforcement officers were coming.
Several people allegedly ran into the woods and Troutman went into the woods to find them while Bimber dealt with the several people who remained at the rock.
According to court documents, Bimber and two wildlife conservation deputies detained the defendants, waiting for state police to arrive at the scene. The people remaining at the rock were wearing only their underwear, having left their clothes in a car parked on the Clarion side of the river.
"We didn"â„¢t know what was going on," Bimber told the Clarion News. "There were people running around behind us and running into the woods."
Bimber said he kept the defendants on the Highland Township side of the river until Troutman returned.
"I"â„¢m not going to allow a group of people who have been drinking to walk across the bridge in the middle of the night," said Bimber. "If they get hit by a car, guess who"â„¢s going to be in trouble? Me."
Bimber said when Troutman returned, the group was escorted across the bridge to their car where they were permitted to dress.
Attorney Blair Hindman, of the Clarion-based firm of Alexander, Garbarino, Neely and Hindman, which represented the defendants, said each defendant took the stand in their own defense.
"All indicated that Officer Bimber made rude and crude statements at the time of their detention and that he refused to allow the girls to put clothes on while they waited for the arrival of state police," said Hindman. "The girls complained of being cold and uncomfortable all to no avail."
Bimber said no rude or crude remarks were made. "Not on our behalf, anyway," said Bimber.
Hindman said Bimber acknowledged there was no alcohol at the scene nor were the students involved in any loud activities or engaged in obvious infractions of the law.
"They simply were swimming in the river," said Hindman. "Officer Bimber admitted at the hearing that he forced the young women, at approximately 1 a.m. , to stand outside, soaking wet while wearing only bras and underwear while they waited for state police to arrive so they could be cited for the summary offense of underage drinking.
"When asked why he would take such unreasonable actions toward these young ladies, Officer Bimber stated that even though he had two deputies with him at the time, he took these actions for "Ëœsecurity reasons."â„¢
"I am not quite sure how the officer could reasonably believe that these young ladies could or would ever be a threat to him under the circumstances that he outlined. The story was certainly incredible."
Hindman said he argued the underage consumption of alcohol charges should not have been filed because Bimber had no reason to detain the students.
"Officer Bimber"â„¢s title is "Ëœwildlife conservation officer."â„¢ He does not have the same and equal powers as a "Ëœpolice officer"â„¢ under our laws in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ," said Hindman. "He seems to believe that he does. He does not. He continues to patrol areas where he has no jurisdiction or authority and continues to harass and annoy citizens of this commonwealth at his leisure."
District Justice Nancy Kadunce wrote in her decision of the case that while the law allows a wildlife conservation officer to "pursue, apprehend or arrest any individual suspected of violating" the laws of the commonwealth, the wildlife conservation officer must "be acting within the scope of his employment."
Kadunce ruled, "For Bimber to have been acting within the scope of his employment at the time he detained and questioned the defendants, he would have had to be investigating a suspected violation of a game or wildlife law at the time. There is no evidence to show that Bimber suspected that any of game or wildlife law was being violated when he approached and subsequently detained and questioned the defendants at "Ëœthe rock."â„¢"
Hindman said he believes Bimber has previously acted outside the scope of his employment.
"Officer Bimber has been instructed by both Common Pleas judges and district judges as to his illegal detention of individuals until state police arrive," said Hindman. "I have personally been involved in several cases where Officer Bimber has acted illegally and blatantly violated our constitution.
"When Officer Bimber was asked about being instructed in many other cases of his illegal actions, he stated that, "ËœI don"â„¢t always agree with judges"â„¢ and attorneys"â„¢ interpretation of the law."â„¢
"Judging by his own words, it seems Officer Bimber will continue to break the law until someone finally takes his badge."
Bimber, however, believes he acted appropriately and in a manner that protected the defendants from possible harm.
"People can try to turn this thing around 100 percent if they want to," said Bimber. "I did what I did and I"â„¢d do it again for the sake of everyone involved. A lot of things didn"â„¢t come out at the hearing."
Bimber referred to state laws which empower wildlife conservation officers to enforce any commonwealth laws on any public property or on law open to the public for hunting.
"I"â„¢m a little tired of people thinking I"â„¢m the bad guy all the time when all I"â„¢m doing what the law says I"â„¢m supposed to do," said Bimber.

You keep begging for more don't you Trout ? OUT OF CONTRL !!!!!!!!!!!

Please allow me to refresh your memory. Charlie Foster was a "wanted man" for allegedly illegally killing a deer. A deer carcass was found amongst a pile of trash alongside the road. PGC law enforcement believed Charlie was the murderer. The PGC secured a search warrant to search Foster’s home. They showed up with Fish Commission personnel on a Sunday afternoon in the middle of Charlie Foster’s Christening party for his three children. They pushed Charlie’s mother into a concrete wall, hit his wife with a flashlight and forced Charlie to take his pants off in front of 20 people. They "house arrested" everyone detaining all in the Foster living room. They searched Charlie’s house and an additional home (Charlie’s mother’s house) on the property, which may not have been part of the search warrant.

There are many questions unanswered in regard to the search warrant because Charlie never saw the warrant. PGC WCO George Hinkle handled Charlie Foster’s concerns about legality when Hinkle arrived at Charlie’s home. "We are the PA Game Commission, we don’t need a search warrant" were Hinkle’s infamous words. Later PGC WCO Darren David confirmed the PGC’s law enforcement mentality when Charlie asked again to see a warrant. "I don’t need a f-----g search warrant. I’ll show you the f-----g search warrant when I’m good and ready to show you the f-----g search warrant". Obviously, the PGC has some real classy and knowledgeable individuals working for them with a full grasp of Constitutional law.

Levin, Fishbein, Sedran and Berman, 501 Walnut Street, Suite 500, Philadelphia PA are the attorneys handling this case for Charles Foster. The Co-council in the matter is Elmer Robert Keach III, 74 Church Street, Hagaman, NY. Attorney Keach prepared the document sitting on my desk. He specializes in civil liberty cases.

PGC law enforcement personnel named in the suit are WCO’s Darren David, George Hinkle, Linda McCafferty, Frederick Merluzzi and the retired PGC Regional Supervisor Barry Moore. Mr. Moore was in charge of this cast of characters at the time of the debacle. Matt Viskowski, a PFBC WCO was also named.

Of special concern is the fact that PGC Commission President Russ Schleiden of Centre Hall was also sued. On April 9, 2004 Charlie Foster tried to bring his grievances before a PGC Board of Commissioners meeting. Commission President Russ Schleiden gaveled Mr. Foster stating "it was not the right time and place for this kind of talk". Schleiden, in reality, severely violated Charlie Foster’s First Amendment rights. It was a public meeting discussing the actions of a government agency. We should demand the resignation of Russ Schleiden without delay or remorse.

The compensatory damages requested against most of the above are $5 million dollars with $1 million dollars being sought in punitive damages against almost all of them. The grand total is $33 million dollars. Unfortunately, the cost of embarrassment to the PGC for becoming involved in yet another massive legal case is immeasurable. I suggest you get a copy of this complaint. It is an easy read and will take the sting out of your disappointing deer season by adding some levity to your life.

Of course, the bigger issue in all of this is the number of serious lawsuits against the PGC at any given time. It is a clear indication of the lack of leadership, direction and control by the PGC management. The PGC has become a major embarrassment to this state.

Combined with our disastrous deer management program, PA is literally becoming the laughingstock of this nation.

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: RSB

ORIGINAL: Skip16503

I'm thinking about getting back into hunting .... DO you think its worth it?

Please Helpa

 

 
Don’t pay any attention to the losers that post all the negative nonsense on this web site. I have to suspect a fair percentage of them are actually anti-hunters that jump around infiltrating hunting web sites just to cause as much damage to both hunting and wildlife management as possible. 
 
 
R.S. Bodenhorn      

So, we, who are license buying hunters in PA, are now losers in addition to being goons, thugs, and not good guys and in your opinion are anti-hunters as well.

Do your superiors know just how wonderful of a job of customer, because that is who we are, relations you are providing?

Maybe it is about time they found out.

 
When people who are claiming to be hunters are telling another person that is looking for input on whether they should get back into hunting not to waste their time you bet they are either anti-hunters or some other form of loser.
 
Some of you want to make it sound like I am turning hunters off; well I say bologna. The people turning hunters off are those of you that are so negative about everything from hunting to wildlife management to law enforcement that any one reading it decides they don’t want to be part of such a group of people. In fact I serious question at times just how many of the negative posters on this site are hunters and many how many are really just anti-hunters who infiltrate the various hunting sites to create as much harm to hunting as possible.
 
On most hunting web sites they eventually weed out and ban the anti-hunters that infiltrate and post things damaging to the future of hunting. That doesn’t seem to happen on this site, but I will still do my best to point out how damaging it is when people either pretending to be hunters or those that might be hunters with just horrible attitudes post nonsense that is damaging to the future of hunting.
 
Go back and read the comments made to the original poster and then see if you can honestly tell me those aren’t comments akin to an anti-hunter, damaging to the future of hunting and/or thus made by losers which ever their case might be. In my opinion when someone is intentionally turning someone away from hunting they ARE and ANTI-HUNTER and/or a loser whether they want to be classified as one of not.  
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

so in 9 years you come up with 2 items that you call "out of control" ...


and I see nothing where anyone is saying the WCOs were "out of control"...

I even posted (way back when)when the Bimber event happend I thought he made a mistake in dealing with the kids period... but he certainly never acted as if he was "out of control"
(your words not mine)




as for Foster that was well over 9 years ago ... man you need to update your files for more current events to refer to in trying to back up your BS... that one is ancient history..

How about the WCO that went out of his way to help dpms recover his buck last year.. was that out of control ??

How about our local WCO who gave up his personal time to help youth build blue bird houses at our club .. out of control ??

How about the WCO who help locate and arrest bank robbers a few years ago here , after the robbers were armed and running thru town... "out of control" ??


How about the poor officer who lost his life trying to do his job last year.. was he "out of control" ???

shame on you for trying to paint or accuse WCOs as being "out of control" !!!!!!

On most hunting web sites they eventually weed out and ban the anti-hunters that infiltrate and post things damaging to the future of hunting. That doesn’t seem to happen on this site, but I will still do my best to point out how damaging it is when people either pretending to be hunters or those that might be hunters with just horrible attitudes post nonsense that is damaging to the future of hunting.

Well RSB seems like some ( OUTDOOR LIFE ) think that the PGC are the anti-hunters. You really should be careful who you are pointing your finger at. I only call em as I see em and this is what I'm seeing. What exactly does a shoe taste like anyways ?

http://www.outdoorlife.com/forums/hunting/whitetail-deer/pa-game-commission-ruined-hunting

When people who are claiming to be hunters are telling another person that is looking for input on whether they should get back into hunting not to waste their time you bet they are either anti-hunters or some other form of loser.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

 
What do you mean claim to be hunters?  I have purchased a PA hunting license ever since the first day I was elidgible -- about 40 years ago.  I hunt upland game and deer in PA.  That makes me a hunter doesn't it?  There is no "claim."
 
The difference here is that we are being one thing that you are not and that is honest about the state of hunting in PA today vs. Skip's frame of reference from when he hunted before. It is just a fair assessment that in our experience that hunting today is not what it was when he last hunted and just want him to be aware that it has changed.  He asked for opinions form hunters, not propoganda from those that directly benefit form his purchase of a hunting license, and he got it. 
 
Being honest does not make us anti-hunting or losers, but it does make you dishonest.

ORIGINAL: S-10

Some of you want to make it sound like I am turning hunters off; well I say bologna.

Some might argue your claiming the 200,000 hunters we lost were all slob outlaws and road hunters and good riddence to them is a negative attitude and turns hunters off.

Some might argue calling hunters goons, thugs, horses azz, without a functioning brain cell, needing smart pills, you know wormed like a dog, etc is a negative attitude and turns hunters off.

Some might argue telling us when you check a hunter without your version of the QUOTE: Proper-- Attitude you hold them until you can find out what law they are breaking is a negative attitude and turns hnters off.

Don't look up because the sky might be falling, but I do agree with you

WCOs are the face of the PGC when dealing with hunters and need to present themselves accordingly.  The comments they make online are a direct reflection of the PGC.  And again RSB, I don't think you realize that many of your comments here (especially as of late) are detrimental to the public's perception of the PGC.  If it is any condolence, the comments made by WCOs posting on another site are just as bad and often worse.

FYI ====
sorry to go off topic but I must correct this ===

I thought maybe with the warnings you got you might straiten up a bit.

Just more BS from OA.. I received no warnings from the admin here... stop making stuff up and posting it here...

As for OA's outdoor life link.. It does not have much to do with the magazine.... he did not mention that it is just another message board just like this one and many others.. and most of them have anti-hunters and anti-PGC folks posting on them too .. maybe even him ...

just a place on the internet for more complainiing ... you know just like the few always complaing here..

stop posting BS so I do not have to reply to straighten it out....

skip..

go for it, I agree with all those saying it is well worth the time..

know the area you want to hunt and set your goals accordingly...

don't expect to see tons of deer like the old days... but with good sound preparation a person can still be very succesful hunting deer or other species in Pa..

Good luck and let us know how you do !!!

  I'll hunt with u anietime, don't mean we will kill aniething though. Crap my son Timmy has been out in trees 12 +++ hrs. a day this week & hasn't lett one go yet, oppp's he just came in the door as I type, dropped him off 6 am this morn. & gettin' back at 7:30.... weather he letttt one go or not I'm sure he had a blast. He had the biggest Buck he ever seen bed down 30 yrds. away yesterday & a crap load ov deer  with a couple P&Y's around his stand since the start ov the season.Good to just get with Mother Nature with or without a weapon this time ov yr. iv u ask me.  Crapp all my kids have got bigger bucks than me & I've been legally huntin' since 72.

Your choice,

crappy