3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st ==

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Dr. Trout
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2011/09/01 19:56:47 (permalink)

3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st ==

Here are 3 more of my mediocre pictures for those that enjoy them ==







post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/09/01 19:57:24
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    rollcaster
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/01 20:28:09 (permalink)
    blurry
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    tull66
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/01 20:48:09 (permalink)
    Doc, I know you don't read my posts but why are they all in spots? This is September. Are the pics new? Are they PA?


    Are the does being bred late due to a lack of bucks up there? I understood Alt to say that whacking most of the does, and "saving" the bucks would lead to all the does being bred "on time". What the heck is happening?

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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    tull66
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/01 20:52:29 (permalink)
    I started a new job this week with a gas company. I toured around Greene County all week and saw a few deer. No bucks(that I know of, some were too far away to ID), maybe 8 doe, all with pairs of fawns, all fawns were tiny and spotted.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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    RSB
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/01 22:24:56 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: tull66

    Doc, I know you don't read my posts but why are they all in spots? This is September. Are the pics new? Are they PA?


    Are the does being bred late due to a lack of bucks up there? I understood Alt to say that whacking most of the does, and "saving" the bucks would lead to all the does being bred "on time". What the heck is happening?

     
    The fawns don’t lose their spots until they go into their winter coats. The fawns are the last to change into winter coats and the adult deer are just making the transition from summer to winter coat now. Most of the adult deer will be in winter coats before the end of the week. Most of the fawns will be in winter coats within the next week to two weeks. A few of the fawn will still be in summer coats and spotted for about three weeks yet but most will be changed within the next two weeks.
     
    I have not seen any fawns or even adult deer that are totally into their winter coats, as of yet, though during the past week I have seen some adults that were nearly 50% changed into winter coat.
     
    And, everything is perfectly normal and right on time again this year as far as coat changes and antlers coming out of velvet. It is based on the amount of daylight so unless the sun and Earth make some serious changes the transition of deer will also remain pretty much the same from year to year as well.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/01 22:35:53 (permalink)
    I think going from winter to summer coats is nicer, they look pretty bad going from summer to winter.. IMHO.. .

    Many of the deer around here that I see everyday are also, as RSB stated, starting to change to winter coats.

    I'll set out the trail camera tomorrow and see if I can catch a few pics of it.... lots of apples starting to fall around here off the neighboring camp's apple trees so it's hard to figure where the deer are traveling, it varies immensely from day to day right now...
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/09/01 22:37:07
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    ridgehunter
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/01 23:27:19 (permalink)
    They'll all be dead in no time.
    #7
    retired guy
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/02 16:39:46 (permalink)
      Out in a bow stand on the first day few years back and a Doe came in with a little spotty that actually walked UNDER her right by my stand. Talk bout a late  breeder.
       Love those little tender things.
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    tull66
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/02 20:50:27 (permalink)
    That was my point RG, many does are being bred late. My 50 years experience observing deer is in direct conflict with RSB's post of "being on schedule". But PGC "scientists" get the nod over real life observations. Just observin'...

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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    retired guy
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/02 20:59:21 (permalink)
        Would think those average size ones do loose the spots on the change cause they disappear real sudden every year- The real late drops  must not be old enough to have a coat change till later- if they make it.
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    tull66
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/02 21:14:01 (permalink)
    Doc's pix #2 and #3 are very clear that the fawns are very small. According to RSB the "spot drop" is determined by the time of year(amount of daylight), not their age. Personal observations say otherwise.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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    RSB
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/02 22:32:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: tull66

    Doc's pix #2 and #3 are very clear that the fawns are very small. According to RSB the "spot drop" is determined by the time of year(amount of daylight), not their age. Personal observations say otherwise.

     
    You are correct that late fawns will stay in their summer coats and thus have spots later than earlier born fawns.
     
    We have way fewer late born fawns in this part of the state now than we had before antler restrictions. Before antler restrictions a high percentage of even the adult does weren’t getting bred during their first or even second cycle. Now pretty much all of our adult does are being bred before the end of November.
     
    In some areas there might be more late born fawns now than before but that really might be positive instead of a negative thing. It very well could be that those late born fawns you are seeing are coming from juvenile does that weren’t being bred at all before antler restrictions. Having a higher percentage of the juvenile does bred, though perhaps a month later than the adults, is actually a sign that the old late breeding cycle of the adult does is being corrected. If the adult does are bred when they are first in cycle they will put their fawns on the ground earlier. Then since those fawn were born earlier more of them will reach breeding weight their first summer and get bred as juveniles during their first fall. Granted their fawns have a lower survival rate than fawns from adult does but even if just a few of them survive that is a plus not a negative.
     
    As a side note, nearly all of the adult deer a saw this evening were in their winter coats. Three of the four bucks I saw were still in velvet and the forth was just in the process of shedding with bloody antlers.
     
    It is all right on time with what has been happening every year in the past.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn
    #12
    Outdoor Adventures
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/03 01:07:58 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: tull66

    Doc's pix #2 and #3 are very clear that the fawns are very small. According to RSB the "spot drop" is determined by the time of year(amount of daylight), not their age. Personal observations say otherwise.


    There is no date on the pics. Hard to say when they are from.
    #13
    tull66
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/03 06:55:01 (permalink)
    He titled the post Sept 1st.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
    #14
    Outdoor Adventures
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/03 08:12:31 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: tull66

    He titled the post Sept 1st.


    As Trout would say,show me, prove it me, have those deer stand by a copy of a current newpaper, It's ok Dr Trout we all post a little BS from time to time.
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    Outdoor Adventures
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/03 08:59:47 (permalink)
    Once one's creditability is gone is really hard to gain it back.
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    retired guy
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/03 20:33:28 (permalink)
        Agree with RSB bout the young does being bred and dropping late. The area I mentioned is surrounded by PVT land and has a huge unhunted Deer population and has had such for many years now.  Much older bucks and does are comonplace.
      To think that does didnt get bred during the normal rutting phases does not compute there due to the healthy population and the hight buck to doe numbers. Young does coming in very late makes a lot of sence in that condition.
      The mature does seem to have twins most commonly there and the young ones have only  one fawn.
    post edited by retired guy - 2011/09/03 20:34:53
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    CATMAN610
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/06 12:35:56 (permalink)
    I saw a small spotted fawn the last day of archey about 10 years ago or so, that was pretty wild. Still with its mom of course.It was very lucky because I was drawn on her until the little one came running out of the thicket.
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    tull66
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/06 16:37:59 (permalink)
    Back when I used to archery hunt ALOT, and deer were plentiful, I never saw a fawn with spots.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
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    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/12 12:15:30 (permalink)
    We pulled some cameras yesterday and still have 3-4 spotted fawns running around.  Based on prior years, this is nothing unusual.
     
    A few years back I saw a fawn with spots during the first week of archery.
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    MuskyMastr
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    RE: 3 doe - 3 fawns - 3 locations = Sept 1st == 2011/09/14 13:46:38 (permalink)
    The youngest of the fawns on our cameras have very faded spots right now. I also assume that any fawn born later than these ones would be VERY vulnerable to predators as there are many in the area. So that is probably why we see very few of the late, late born ones.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
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