Sunday Hearing =

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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 13:47:50 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

It is a frequent occurance in my neck of the woods and has been since they implemented x-guns.  I am surprised that you have not seen it yet, but I have feeling it will be coming to a neighborhood near you in the not so distant future.


If you were replying to me, it was a frequent occurance way before crossbows were legal in the SRA.  Still a group of guys that drives out one of the woodlots I hunt during archery.  They did it before with their compounds and now they do it with some carrying crossbows. 

I adapted to their drives.  Put a buddy of mine in a good spot on a Saturday, thinking that they would do their late morning drive.  They did and he shot a tremendous 8 point.  This was before crossbows were legal in the SRA.

Is it more frequent, now? Yes.  Does it matter to me if folks want to drive deer during archery? No.  Just hope that the shots taken are high percentage and the abide by the game laws.
post edited by dpms - 2011/08/23 14:42:31

My rifle is a black rifle
#61
Outdoor Adventures
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 13:50:00 (permalink)
WOW ! What Would Fred Bear Think ???
#62
dpms
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 14:00:28 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

WOW ! What Would Fred Bear Think ???

 
Would be interesting to hear his thoughts.

My rifle is a black rifle
#63
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 14:17:55 (permalink)
Did antone just feel that earthquake a few minutes ago? No seriuosly. Maybe Fred was tring to make a statement?
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 14:38:24 (permalink)
There are many decaffinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing and I suggest to try some.


Dont drink coffee. Or soda. My caffeine levels should be just fine.

Nowhere did I suggest that scarcity mentality was predominate in anything, especially deer.


You replied about the study s10 spoke of. Unless you think the number one reason hunters gave for not buying another hunting license was due to something other than deer when deer are the number one species hunted in the state? So they gave up all hunting, including deer because of a shortage of woodcock??

"And now you are jumping down my throat because I stated what is known to be a pschological fact when it comes to surveys just because it does not fall in lock step with your continued agenda which, quite frankly seems to be boardering on rage?"


No rage. Simply pointed out the fact you seemed to hold conflicting postions and it seems that was due to your desire for sunday hunting. I hold no ill will towards you wether that is the case or not. It seems that internet message boards are the worlds absolute worst conveyor of emotion. As for rage towards pgc, that doesnt exist either. I try to keep my position based in fact, not emotion. I dont like what they are doing, and even believe some of them should be fired flat out, and deserved. That doesnt mean i hate them as people on a personal level.

"I have no adgenda, I just don't have blinders on and can look at issues from many different points of view before making an informed, adult decision."


When i spoke of agenda, i didnt mean to imply you were flying hand in wing with the audubon and pgc antideer agenda. I was simply speaking of your desire for sunday hunting and your posting in support of it.

"Now go back to arguing with those that have a differing point of view and stop eroding the base that has a similar thought process where deer are concerned."


Was never my intent. And since it apparently wasnt yours either, you should not have left it so open to interpretation. I also wasnt jumping down your throat, if nothing else, my pointing this out gave clarity to your position by having you further explain.

"As for your buddy, singlular, not wanting to hunt an area that three, plural, crossbow hunters now hunt -- too bad."


An area he hunted for decades, and not just because 3 crossbowers moved in. But because they didnt have a clue how to hunt, and he was wasting alot of time there due to extremely disturbed hunting conditions. Didnt want to or need to write a book about his follies but Im guessing it wouldnt matter anyway. But the point was and is, his perception of the issue is just as valid as any other individual saying all is just peachy.

"It seems that although these fellows didn't know what they were doing, they were enjoying themselves. That's three people enjoying themselves, one not."


If we are speaking of only those people and not others that may have quit hunting that areas due to not seeing deer, or others that might not have been effected.. Speaking solely of those 4 people, then....Previously all 4 enjoyed hunting there. 1 during archery 3 during rifle. Now only 3 are.

"Almost sounds like "They good of the many outweight the needs of the one" type deal. He doesn't like it, buy the ground. Or help them to become better at it. Oh wait, then they might actually kill one of "his" deer. Can't have that. Why? Scarcity mentality."


Cant be, because the scarcity mentality wasnt about "deer" remember? The scarcity mentality only applies to snipe and snowshoe hare. Yep. Thats what the hunter decline was all about too..

Course thats just how i took it through my caffeine fueled blind rage and hatred. lmao.

.
Im not getting into the crossbow battle particulars. Just made a point on how perceptions of the same issue differ, even though some want to make hard and fast "final word" type statements like "things are just fine now and all previous concerns were unfounded".
post edited by wayne c - 2011/08/23 14:42:35
#65
wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 14:44:27 (permalink)
WOW ! What Would Fred Bear Think ???



LOL.
#66
DarDys
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 14:58:57 (permalink)
Apparently old Fred, or perhaps more correctly, his decendants, seem to have no issue with crossbows.
 
http://www.southernhuntingsupplies.com/fredbear_maxpoint_crossbows.htm

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#67
wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 15:13:57 (permalink)
Were they giving those things away....to promote the sport & all?
#68
S-10
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 15:15:40 (permalink)
Apparently old Fred, or perhaps more correctly, his decendants, seem to have no issue with crossbows.


Fred Bear sold his business long before crossbows started becoming a popular hunting weapon. The new owners (not decendents) got into the crossbow business. Fred Bear died in the late eighties.
post edited by S-10 - 2011/08/23 15:18:04
#69
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 15:27:27 (permalink)
An unfiltered, non double back-checked survey is a dangerous thing.


A man quits hunting. Someone asks him "why did you quit hunting" The man answers "because of a lack of game to hunt"-----------------Exactly what else do you propose asking him unless you want to lead him to the answer you are seeking.

Besides, you sure have been on the lack of deer to hunt complaint as long as I have. I just pointed out that the Sunday hunting you are supporting "Will Not" lead to more game.

Turkeys numbers are also reduced by 30% since 2000.
#70
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 15:39:19 (permalink)
PCF felt that there were no valid concerns that warranted a slow guarded approach to full inclusion. Turns out it became a non-issue cept for the diehard haters.


What you mean is they wanted to push it through before the groundswell against it forced a review. Saying it is a non issue is like the PGC saying the anti herd reduction sentiment is just a small vocial minority. What allowing crossbows did was increase the deer kill from the low twenties to a bit over 30% of the total kill thereby making it harder for the gun hunters like Dardys to find a deer to kill. That also means that the total estimated deer harvest is even more inflated than normal because of the 27% error on the high side in estimating archery killed deer.
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DarDys
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 16:15:37 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: S-10

An unfiltered, non double back-checked survey is a dangerous thing.


A man quits hunting. Someone asks him "why did you quit hunting" The man answers "because of a lack of game to hunt"-----------------Exactly what else do you propose asking him unless you want to lead him to the answer you are seeking.

Besides, you sure have been on the lack of deer to hunt complaint as long as I have. I just pointed out that the Sunday hunting you are supporting "Will Not" lead to more game.

Turkeys numbers are also reduced by 30% since 2000.

 
Again, as I answered Wayne, I am with you on this with respect to deer, but just wanted to point out the survey flaws.
 
Possible follow up questions to a "lack of game" answer could probe "why" they felt there was a lack of game -- no harvest, not seeing any, not seeing as many as before, and then look at the time frame they are comparing the lack of game to one year, five years, ten years, 20 years.  When doing a needs survey, one has to ask the same question at least twice in a different manner in order to validate the response.
 
As for Sunday hunting not leading to more game, I agree with you, logic says so.  But I am not convinced there would be a devastating affect either. 
 
The state stocks the pheasants as a put and take, just like trout and steelhead.  There is no expectation of any surviving and Sunday hunting would permit more of those birds to be harvested (killed, whatever) by hunters vs. predators.
 
I highly doubt that hunters can put a serious dent in the rabbit and grouse population.  Common house cats kill more rabbits than hunters and they get to be out on Sunday.  There aren't enough grouse hunters to kill them off and their cyclic nature will continue.
 
You could have an open season on squirrels 24/7/365 and because of a lack of interest (despite what members of the BOC say) there would not be a blip decrease in the population.
 
I really can't comment on turkeys because I buy mine from Martin's, but if the turkey population, even in its decline were an issue, why the second gobbler tag (except for the obvious $ answer)?  And where is the turkey population compared ot 20, 15, 10 years ago (I don't know).  Are more turkeys really needed or is that, darest I write it, scarcity mentality rearing its ugly head?
 
Now, of course, that brings us to deer.  According to the PGC, they control the number of deer harvested via antlerless allocations, about a quarter of which are males.  So if, and I know that is a big "if," allocations are reset to account for the number of deer harvested on Sundays, no more antlerless deer will be taken than there are now.  When a tag is filled, a tag is filled and it can no longer be used no matter what day the deer was harvested (killed, whatever) on.
 
That only leaves the number of bucks killed as a possible consequence.  The $64 is "how many?"
 
I have no idea, but I doubt that it will 10,000 which would represent about a 10% increase.  The PGC estimates that the increase in harvest (according to posters on this board) will be about 12% because of the AR rule change in the west and not too many see that as a great disaster -- unfair to those in the east that have better eyesight, but not a disaster.  It certainly would be less than if AR's were abandoned altogether, but there are those (perhaps you) that don't see that increase as a disaster either if it were enacted.
 
Now, if the whole shebang were to happen -- add Sundays, remove AR's altogether, not decrease antlerless allocations, etc., then, Houston, we have a problem.
 

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#72
Esox_Hunter
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 16:37:59 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

It is a frequent occurance in my neck of the woods and has been since they implemented x-guns.  I am surprised that you have not seen it yet, but I have feeling it will be coming to a neighborhood near you in the not so distant future.


If you were replying to me, it was a frequent occurance way before crossbows were legal in the SRA.  Still a group of guys that drives out one of the woodlots I hunt during archery.  They did it before with their compounds and now they do it with some carrying crossbows. 

I adapted to their drives.  Put a buddy of mine in a good spot on a Saturday, thinking that they would do their late morning drive.  They did and he shot a tremendous 8 point.  This was before crossbows were legal in the SRA.

Is it more frequent, now? Yes.  Does it matter to me if folks want to drive deer during archery? No.  Just hope that the shots taken are high percentage and the abide by the game laws.


Actually, I was replying to Kype regarding x-gun drives.  Certainly, there were people driving deer with bows before x-guns were implemented.  I never meant for my statement to imply that they weren't.  I was just stating that they are now much more prevalent now, which you seem to agree with.

Your last sentence is what concerns me.  I am by no means pinning this solely with the x-gunners, but many of the people I encounter doing archery drives do not seem to comprehend what a high percentage shot really is.  Again, this is not exclusive to x-gunners, however I have heard some pretty ridiculous statements made by the x-gunners regarding the perceived capabilities of the weapon for the purposes of driving deer.  There are bad apples in every bunch, but I can't deny that it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I hear some of them acting as if they have a rifle in their hands.  
#73
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 16:38:39 (permalink)
Now, of course, that brings us to deer. According to the PGC, they control the number of deer harvested via antlerless allocations, about a quarter of which are males. So if, and I know that is a big "if," allocations are reset to account for the number of deer harvested on Sundays, no more antlerless deer will be taken than there are now. When a tag is filled, a tag is filled and it can no longer be used no matter what day the deer was harvested (killed, whatever) on.


And that statement shoots the whole :Lets allow Sunday Hunting To Increase Hunter Satisfaction, Interest, and Retention: Theory all to hell. The best that can be said is it won't lead to fewer deer "IF" allocations are reduced. If allocations are reduced then many(perhaps you) won't be able to harvest (or attempt to harvest) a doe any day of the week. That should lead to hunter satisfaction and retention.

As for the 3 up rule change, I was for it but have no doubt the main reason it passed was to make some hunters happy while still being able to increase the deer kill. There is no doubt in my mind if it meant killing less deer it would not have passed.

I have to admit it's a bit strange having Wayne and I sided with folks we usually don't agree with debating with folks we normally see eye to eye with. I think we are typical of the whole statewide debate however in that the hunters for and against are approx equal.
#74
tull66
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 17:30:51 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

WOW ! What Would Fred Bear Think ???

 
Does he pay to hunt in PA?
Who cares.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
#75
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 17:37:55 (permalink)
Did the same guy buy Bear Archery who bought L.L. Bean ?- Believe  his name was J.A. Pan.
#76
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 17:53:08 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: retired guy

Did the same guy buy Bear Archery who bought L.L. Bean ?- Believe  his name was J.A. Pan.


Actually it's Escalade Sports with manufacture around the world.
#77
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/23 18:03:39 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: tull66

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

WOW ! What Would Fred Bear Think ???


Does he pay to hunt in PA?
Who cares.



Actually Mr Fred Bear was terrible at taking shots with the bow that many of us would find quite unethical..

Lobbing arrows into an elk herd, and if I remember correctly used to advocate a rear ham shot as a good placement....

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#78
DarDys
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/24 07:47:53 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: S-10

Now, of course, that brings us to deer. According to the PGC, they control the number of deer harvested via antlerless allocations, about a quarter of which are males. So if, and I know that is a big "if," allocations are reset to account for the number of deer harvested on Sundays, no more antlerless deer will be taken than there are now. When a tag is filled, a tag is filled and it can no longer be used no matter what day the deer was harvested (killed, whatever) on.


And that statement shoots the whole :Lets allow Sunday Hunting To Increase Hunter Satisfaction, Interest, and Retention: Theory all to hell. The best that can be said is it won't lead to fewer deer "IF" allocations are reduced. If allocations are reduced then many(perhaps you) won't be able to harvest (or attempt to harvest) a doe any day of the week. That should lead to hunter satisfaction and retention.

As for the 3 up rule change, I was for it but have no doubt the main reason it passed was to make some hunters happy while still being able to increase the deer kill. There is no doubt in my mind if it meant killing less deer it would not have passed.

I have to admit it's a bit strange having Wayne and I sided with folks we usually don't agree with debating with folks we normally see eye to eye with. I think we are typical of the whole statewide debate however in that the hunters for and against are approx equal.

 
I highly doubt that allocations will need to be reduced to the point that a resident cannot get a single antlerless tag because of adding in Sundays (If I really wanted to, I could probably do the math based on success rates, etc., but don't think it would bring a ROI for my time to the discussion).  And you and I are old enough to remember when getting a single tag (whether you even got to use it or not because of one-and-done) was not a given and there were years that one did not get a tag.  We lived.  No one needs three, four, five tags to be satisfied unless of course they push scarcity mentality to the limit.
 
As for the seemingly different side switch on this debate, that is healthy.  It shows that certain individuals on this site do research, look at multiple points of view, and make informed, adult decisions that fit their current situation and train of thought and don't just blindly follow thier normal herd.  We should be thankful for that.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#79
DarDys
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/24 07:49:59 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: bingsbaits


ORIGINAL: tull66

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

WOW ! What Would Fred Bear Think ???


Does he pay to hunt in PA?
Who cares.



Actually Mr Fred Bear was terrible at taking shots with the bow that many of us would find quite unethical..

Lobbing arrows into an elk herd, and if I remember correctly used to advocate a rear ham shot as a good placement....

 
I recall seeing an old film of Fred Bear harvesting (killing, whatever) and elephant with a bow.  A few of the tribemen that had to try to finish it off were crushed by it, but, hey, Fred showed that he could kill an elephant with a bow.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#80
tull66
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/24 08:23:14 (permalink)
Some people will do anything to avoid tipping their tracker(s).

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The closer we adhere to the Holy Bible and the US Constitution (as it was written) the closer we get to the model that made America great. The great American experiment worked, human nature just got in the way.
#81
DarDys
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/24 08:30:24 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: tull66

Some people will do anything to avoid tipping their tracker(s).

 
Oh, some of them got tipped, but by the pacaderm, not Fred.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#82
bingsbaits
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RE: Sunday Hearing = 2011/08/25 08:54:22 (permalink)

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: Legends of the Fall
A Daily Reckoning Special Position Paper
by Jim Amrhein, Editor – Whiskey & Gunpowder (Sign up Free today!)

“The encouragement of a proper hunting spirit, a proper love of sport, instead of being incompatible with a love of nature and wild things, offers the best guaranty for their preservation.”

-- U.S. President and Nobel Prize winner Theodore Roosevelt

I ONCE WROTE an essay in this forum that I’m still getting feedback about. It dealt with the touchy subject of animal rights (or rather, the lack thereof). In the closing paragraph of that piece, I promised to expose the animal rights crowds for the hypocrites they are at a later date — and to demonstrate that the best friend any wild animal ever had is the hunter who exercises his or her personal freedom to stalk the woods, mountains, meadows, or marshes with gun or bow in hand….

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: Hunting for Reason — and Respect

And now that it’s the crisp and colorful fall, and time once again for those who are so inclined to hang some healthy wild game on the ol’ meat hook, it’s time for me to make good on that promise. I’ll also offer a “sacrificial lamb” to some critics who claim some of my columns have little financial component to them. To those folks, I say this: What you’re about to read should slake your thirst for numbers. But as you read, I urge you to keep in mind my larger point — that there’s a negative fiscal impact whenever personal freedoms are compromised.

Here’s a fact the animal rights crowd doesn’t like to hear, or to admit:

There wouldn’t be nearly as many (if any) vast tracts of publicly owned land to hike, bike, bird-watch, dog-walk, horseback ride, or generally gambol around on if regulated hunting did not exist. Funds generated by license fees and federal excise taxes on outdoor gear pay for these lands by an overwhelming margin. In fact, these monies dwarf all other sources combined — including the nearly nonexistent contributions of animal rights organizations (more on this in a minute). That means outdoor sportsmen are overwhelmingly the largest source of conservation funding in the United States….

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: “Hunter-Vationists” Are Paying for Everyone’s Party

Here are the numbers, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, and other public sources:

** $746 million — Annual amount of money spent by hunters in the United States on licenses and public land access fees alone. Sportsmen’s licensing revenues account for more than half of all funding for state natural resource agencies

** $300 million — Additional monies contributed to wildlife conservation every year by the more than 10,000 private hunting-advocate organizations, like the National Wild Turkey Federation, Ducks Unlimited, and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

** $4.2 billion — Amount of money sportsmen have contributed to conservation through a 10% federal excise taxes on firearms, ammunition, and gear since the 1937 Pittman-Robertson Act established the tax. Millions of acres of public-use land has been purchased, preserved, and maintained with this money.

From an ecological point of view, here’s what all this translates into– The needs of wild animals — especially endangered and threatened species — are immeasurably better served by the millions of acres of well-maintained, patrolled habitat that hunters’ dollars are paying for than the lies and propaganda dished out by animal rights groups. In fact, their efforts are among the most destructive forces facing wildlife of all types today…

Why? Because if the animal rights crowd got its way and hunting were outlawed, there’d be no money for the preservation and expansion of the habitat that houses not only game species, but the endangered, threatened, and recovering species as well. Like it or not, and believe it or not, sportsmen’s dollars are in large part what has made possible the wildly successful re-establishment of the wild turkey, black bear, bison, elk, and the bald eagle. Yes, it was vast tracts of public, protected land and plenty of dollars for reintroduction efforts that made these miracles of conservation a reality — not to mention the 20-fold increase in the number of wild elk, the 133-fold increase in the wild turkey flock, and the roughly 70-fold increase in the national whitetail deer herd over the last century.

If sport hunting and/or sport fishing were outlawed (animal rights groups are gunning for them both), many of these species would dwindle once again — because sooner or later, the government would no doubt pony up a lot of these lands for development. They’d have to; who else would pay for their upkeep and regulation? The animal rights crowd?

Uh, no.

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: A-Hunting They Will Go — for Headlines and Hype

In case you’re wondering how much money animal rights groups devote to habitat preservation and the welfare of wild species, take a gander at PETA’s 2004 financials. Straight from its Web site, I discovered that PETA’s prodigious revenue of over $29 million bought:

** 2,700 media interviews

** 703 organized demonstrations

** Nearly 11,000 mentions in print

** Coverage on at least seven major TV networks

** 150,000 “vegetarian starter kits” disseminated to the public

** Enough “educational materials” for 235,000 teachers and 11,000,000 students…

But not a single acre of land for wildlife preservation — not even for endangered species!

Hmmm. Seems that PETA and friends just don’t realize that what critters of every stripe need more than billboards, picket lines, ad campaigns, and celebrity advocates are places to live and thrive. Without the immense revenue of hunting-related dollars, these lands simply would not exist. That’s a hard pill for them to swallow. And as if it isn’t bad enough that animal rights groups — for all their high-profile anti-hunting bluster — don’t seem to pay for ANY true wildlife conservation efforts, they also spend a good deal of their time and resources obfuscating the truth about where conservation money does come from. Case in point:

In a 2003 news release aimed at opposing the New York Bureau of Wildlife’s plans to promote hunting and trapping in publicly owned sections of the Catskill Mountains, the notoriously militant Fund for Animals (ironic name, since I could find no evidence that they spend any money on wildlife conservation, either), stated that: “Although [the Bureau of Wildlife] is financed by millions of dollars of the public’s tax money, the nonhunting public’s viewpoint is consistently ignored…”

Yet according to the New York Bureau of Wildlife’s own financials, its primary source of funding is hunting, fishing, and trapping license fees, public land usage fees, and fines for violations of fisheries and wildlife management policies. Less than 12% of its operating budget comes from state tax revenues. This is a similar ratio to other states’ natural resources agencies’ funding. In fact, nationwide, sportsmen’s dollars outpace tax dollars for conservation efforts by a ratio of 9-to-1!

Can you think of ANY other federal government program that divines only 10% of its budget from the general fund?

But what’s really mind-boggling about the whole shebang is this: Even if animal rights groups could match the $3 million a day American sportsmen contribute directly to wildlife conservation and protection through license fees, land usage fees, and excise taxes, it still wouldn’t even come close to justifying the outlawing of hunting from a dollars-and-sense perspective, personal freedom issues notwithstanding.

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: Stalk Softly and Carry a Big Stack (of Cash)

We’ve established that sportsmen’s dollars are the engine driving wildlife conservation, habitat protection and expansion, and public use lands. But this really only scratches the surface of how important hunting is to the American way of life. A lot of people probably don’t realize exactly how vital sport hunting is to the U.S. economy (animal rights groups know it, they just don’t want YOU to). Here are just a few examples:

** $24.7 billion — Amount of money hunters spend every year on their sport at the retail level. This money reaches all retail segments, including hard goods, travel, gas, trips, food and drink, supplies, vehicles, leases, lodging, and guide services

** $955.4 million — Annual amount of sales and fuel tax revenue directly attributable to hunting in the U.S.

** 575,000 — Number of American jobs sustained entirely by hunting

** $16.7 billion — Total annual salaries and wages paid to those who hold hunting-related jobs in the U.S.

** $2.25 billion — Dollar amount of combined state and federal income tax revenue generated by hunted-related employment in the United States every year.
How do these numbers compare with other high-participation outdoor sports? For some perspective, compare hunting with another popular gear- and travel-intensive sport, skiing. According to the Census Bureau’s Statistics of U.S. Businesses and other sources, the skiing industry annually:

** Employs approximately 127,000 people (less than a quarter as many as hunting)

** Pays gross salaries of around $1 billion (about 6% of what hunting pays)

** Yields just over $500 million in ski equipment sales (hunters spend more than this on their DOGS).

See what I mean? Hunting is big business in the United States. So big that animal rights groups could never even come close to matching, dollar for dollar, the positive impact sportsmen have on America’s bottom line.

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: Tyranny of the Majority Cuts Both Ways

Animal rights organizations are quick to sling the word “majority” around in making their case against the blood sports. They make the absurd leap that since the majority of Americans don’t hunt, that the will of the people is that hunting should be outlawed. Let’s examine this kind of logic for a second…

More Americans don’t ski than do hit the slopes every winter. More of us don’t own cats than do. Fewer Americans ride motorcycles than do, and more Americans have cell phones than don’t. Does this mean that skiing should be illegal, cat ownership abolished, motorcycles outlawed, and cell phones made mandatory?

Of course not. If the “majority rule” model applied to matters of personal freedom instead of solely to matters legislative and elective, NOTHING would be allowed, and no new technologies or activities would ever flourish or even take hold. Imagine how that would affect the economy. Beyond that, the whole point of personal freedoms is to be able to resist the tyranny of the majority if you’re so inclined.

And what’s really ironic is that if the majority in America really did wield the power in all things, animal rights organizations themselves would not be allowed. Far, far more people don’t belong to or support the goals of animal rights activists than do. But despite what PETA and friends say, the same cannot be said of hunting…

An independent polling organization (Roper and Starch) found in 2000 that 85% of American adults feel that hunting has a legitimate place in modern society. A full 62% agreed that hunters are the world’s leading conservationists.

And they’re right.

Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights: The Talking Heads are out for Blood

What’s really lamentable to me is the fact that the left-leaning media have so skewed their portrayal of hunting that I feel compelled to write an article like this to defend it.

Seriously, do the media ever write or broadcast stories about the economic benefits of hunting or the billions of dollars hunters contribute to conservation efforts? PETA gets tens of thousands of mentions and plugs in the mainstream media — how many does the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation or Ducks Unlimited get?

And how about the hundreds of tons of meat donated every year by hunters to the homeless and impoverished — do you hear about that on the evening news? Last season, in Virginia alone, over a third of a million pounds of lean, high-quality venison was given by hunters to those less fortunate. I wonder how many tons of vegetarian food the animal rights crowd gave to these same folks? I’ll bet not one ounce (if they had, it would have been front-page news)….

The bottom line is this: Like it or not, sport hunting is an incredible boon to American society on multiple levels. But even if it weren’t, every true American should be in support of it (thankfully, most are — not that you’d ever discover this from the meat-hating media). Why? Because it’s perhaps the most vivid example in our culture of the exercise of multiple personal freedoms: to carry a gun on public land, to kill within the law, and to consume meat without interference from the USDA or FDA. That’s awhole lot of freedom bundled up in one activity.

Bottom line: Whether you agree with hunting or not, you should support it on principle. After all, how would you feel if the government outlawed something YOU love to do because some PR-savvy fringe group managed to spread enough lies about it through an activist media to make you a minority in the public’s eye?

So the next time you see a hunter by the side of the road unloading his gear or loading up his kill, give him a honk and a wave out of basic respect for exercising his freedom and paying for the out-of-doors areas we all enjoy. And if you’re an animal rights activist, pull over, park and give him a great big kiss, because he’s doing more to help animals than you ever will.

Better yet, buy a gun, some gear, a truck, and a hunting license and start really contributing to animal welfare — and your economy….

Always hunting for the endangered species of reason and fairness,

Jim Amrhein
for Whiskey & Gunpowder



Read more: Right to Hunt vs. Animal Rights http://dailyreckoning.com/right-to-hunt-vs-animal-rights/#ixzz1W2pGtuzk

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


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