"But, there is also a socially acceptable dimension built into the current plan so anytime there are excessive landowner or other public complaints about deer the plan also calls for reducing the deer population below the natural carrying capacity"

And shouldnt be in blanket or wmu-wide fashion such as excessively increasing allocations for that purpose alone. That situation you speak of is exactly what dmap, red tag, and making it legal for farmers or appointed others to shoot deer 24/7 on their land is supposed to be for.

"Unless it is all about what you can get without any effort the guys that are real hunters will still be both hunting and able to find good hunting in Pennsylvania for a long time to come. Those that only know how to whine instead of hunt might have to go where it is easier to kill something though."
 
Do you even have any idea who your customers are?
 
The average PA deer hunter is a gun hunter that is able to get away for 2-3 days to enjoy deer hunting.  Deer hunting is something that they do, not the only thing that they do.  When they stop enjoying it, they quit.  

"Wayne, do you know what approximately means?"

Absolutely. And i wasnt being a wise-az. The "general observation" had bearing on the question you were asking. Over a million more is NOT "approximately" the same and most certainly could allow for a helluva lot more hunters especially given the particulars in regards to disperal of those numbers across the state. Has nothing to do with my passion about the topic either. Just using some good old fashioned common sense and logic in attempting to address your question as i try to do with any topic. I understand why you said what you said though. I dont think you were trying to be decietful or were that far out in your assessment. Just stating my positions is all, and the population differential was only one reason stated for the difference in hunter numbers anyway.

Ok, well let me dumb this down for you.

I think thats the problem in itself. Tell you what, why dont you try to "smart it up" for once, and maybe we will agree on something.

I think you understand perfectly, just dont like the fact i pointed out that the million plus did hold some significance, and in that regard was saying you were wrong so you are acting as if thats the center of my argument. Noone hung there hat on "over a million more population" alone, it was simply mentioned as one valid actual factor, which it is.

As for the percentages, If around 8% of our population hunts in pa ( afigure ive heard tossed around often by pgc supporters and other antideer types when desiring to make the point we are but a vocal minority--although no doubt could have decreased since thanks to another year or three of the failed deer plan),anyway- that million more would mean 80,000 more huntersright off the bat. The total you might find in some entire small states. lol. Thats not enough to make up the diff. but it IS A FACTOR especially when added in with others.

Here are a couple of which would more be geared towards why a higher PERCENTAGE would hunt one state over another:

I said previously:

"especially given the particulars in regards to disperal of those numbers across the state."

s10 said previously:

"It's always been that way, a larger percentage of the population is located in the cities where hunting is frowned upon, a larger percentage of the land is posted(or at least was), and there is less public land open to hunting."

I said previousl:

"That became the case many many moons ago when our deer herd was much much higher than theirs and when hunting was more "in". It built our state a strong tradition. Had we had a small herd all along we'd like have FAR fewer than Ohio and never have had the strong hunting tradition this state had always been known for even nationally."

The tradition and "base" for our hunting ranks was built many many years ago. The fact ohios numbers are growing and ours is dwindling speaks for itself, as does each states hunter satisfaction levels with the quality of hunting and management. The difference there is insanely large, basically exact opposites.

Wow, great rant.  I guess coherence isn't your strong suit? 
 
What does any of that have to do with the simple observation that PA has far more hunters per capita than Ohio?  I never attempted to draw any correlation between hunter recruitement and that simple observation.  You really need to do a better job of reading and quit trying to start arguments about things I never said.
 
For what it is worth, you might want to look at hunting license sales for Ohio this past year before you go making anymore false statements.... 

Wow, great rant. I guess coherence isn't your strong suit?

Yeah. You questioning mine. lmao. Thats rich.

What does any of that have to do with the simple observation that PA has far more hunters per capita than Ohio?

That wasnt the orgininal or narrow scope of discussion, and i'll show you that in a moment.

" You really need to do a better job of reading and quit trying to start arguments about things I never said."

I dont think you realize what you are saying half the time other than what you think you mean to say. And im not arguing any more than you are. Mr. "dumb it down". Perhaps you are just trying to get another one locked liked you did with the asnine "DMP" comment on the other thread, and you wanna say I just want to argue?? Your emotions get the best of you every time you cant back your position, and you feel the need to personally attack the opposition.

"For what it is worth, you might want to look at hunting license sales for Ohio this past year before you go making anymore false statements...."

Id already posted a link that included the info that 2009/10 was a TWENTY THREE YEAR record high license sales year for ohio. And you want to talk about "picking nits"? lol. What more do you want? When was last time ours was a 23 year high? lmao. 2010/11 Down slightly from previous year, but still reasonable comparatively and normal fluctuation in sales. Sorry to disappoint, but as usual, im more than aware of whats going on.

And that is why FISHING licence are down. You guys are too much. Who the heck posted fishing under a hunting thread anyway ? LOL Why doesn't OH have state funded snowmobile trails since we seem to be off topic ? LOL

ORIGINAL: wayne c

Who the heck posted fishing under a hunting thread anyway ?

I think this thread was dpms's clever way of showing us that since the fishing license sales are down, when the hunting license sales declines it cant be about "deer" or something along those lines. Hence the jab about "deer" he included in the post and his reason for putting this in a hunting forum.

Now if the snowmobile sales are also down then he may have a point, as everyone knows they correlate directly with hunting license sales as well. lol.

LMAO !!!!

ORIGINAL: wayne c

Here is where the current line of discussion began. With your question:

Why is it that Ohio is roughly the same size as PA and has approximately the same population as PA, yet they sell less than half the number of hunting licenses that PA does?

Sorry i took it at face value. Didnt realize i was supposed to read more into it, and not dare make comments in line with the original post at all. lol.

Children of hunters are much more likely to also become hunters. You want the real answer to the riddle. Look at Ohios deer numbers from 1900 all the way through the 1970s and you will find your answer when comparing to Pa. We started restocking effort twenty some years earlier then they did and they had a VERY small herd compared to what we had, or what they have now... all the way up till and including the 70's...arguably longer.

In short, their deer hunting sucked bigtime for decades longer than ours did after herd eradication and restocking efforts.

Congrats, it only took you 2 days to realize that all I posted was nothing more than a generalized observation and was perhaps looking for an answer to why it was so, which I got.  My position (observation) was backed, you were just too dense to realize what that even was...

I am not sure where you came up with the emotion thing Wayne, but do you really want to go there?  I mean come on now, you have been the guy here telling us what how much he can bench, ripping on peoples mothers, and being the internet tough guy via PMs.   Please refer to your dictionary and see the word hypocrite.

About the "asinine" DMP comment; if the shoe fits, by all means wear it.

Whos nitpicking now? Address the ISSUES not the tiny meaningless mistakes/typos or how many times i edit cleaning up a post. No comments about the actual issue as ive explained? Thats what i thought. Guess this conversation for all practical purposes is over and settled.

"Congrats, it only took you 2 days to realize that all I posted was nothing more than a generalized observation and was perhaps looking for an answer to why it was so, which I got."

The way you refuse to concede obvious points and are so worried about "damage control" all the time, its a wonder it didnt take me 2 months. But yes, you did get your question answered, and you are welcome.

"My position (observation) was backed, you were just too dense to realize what that even was..."

he he he. Yeah. Coz yer intelleckt is soo muckh hier thaen mine and al. lmao.

"I am not sure where you came up with the emotion thing Wayne, but do you really want to go there?"

I already have and its true. How many times being wrong, or hearing something you disagree with in regard to deer management etc. does it take for you to go on personal attack? Not many.

I mean come on now, you have been the guy here telling us what how much he can bench, ripping on peoples mothers, and being the internet tough guy via PMs. Please refer to your dictionary and see the word hypocrite.

Ive never said anything untrue, in a threatening manner to anyone or started the mud slinging. Also, the Difference is, i didnt have to make that ridiculous stuff up like you just did about being the internet tough guy or my talk of "benching" was in any way threatening (perhaps some jealous few who cant roll themselves off the couch may have taken offense though i guess). lmao. But those were all retorts to others who threw WORSE personal attack comments that initiated the word wars, and you flat out lied about them purposely taking out of context. Whereas your post in the locked thread (and many others) speaks for itself. And the fact you made up the above and lied about the facts of the matter (big surprise there eh?) shows the emotions have taken over yet again.

Congrats YOU succeeded in making another thread "personal" because you simply cannot control your emotional tirades. Noone else started flipping their wig over the deer management discussion and started the personal attacks..no, it was essox yet again as usual.

"About the "asinine" DMP comment; if the shoe fits, by all means wear it"

Why? You plannin' on taking it off anytime soon? I didnt make the comment. Heck i wasnt even in the conversation.

Guess this is another thread youve shot to hell. Im done with it. Probably be locked soon anyway. As will most likely any future threads where essox cant accomplish what he wants in the debate.

Ok Enough guys, Back to topic please.

"You have mentioned on these boards about your ability to bench press"

Yes i have and dont apologize for doing so. Its something im not ashamed of. Didnt think it would offend anyone and it shouldnt have. Its part of my life, something i enjoy, and not off limits for me to speak of.

"trying to be a tough guy."

Absolutely not. Just your attempting to paint it that way out of spite, and wanting to take the attention off of YOUR CURRENT personal attacks and being made to look a fool in debate.

You have insulted Bingsbaits mother on here.

After being told several things including to F--- myself. Gee defending myself. Whatever was i thinking? lmao.

"You have directed threatening PMs to the thedrake."

Flat out lie. I stated the truth and had nothing to do with threat. Told him he shouldnt talk about people on the internet that he wouldnt face to face after his personal attack. Defended against the comments and did so in a very reasonable rational manner. And the problem with that is exactly what?

So is any of this true? Or am I lying as you state

?

You are lying as i stated, and have shown above.

How did this start yet again? Go back through the thread and find where you felt the need to start personally attacking me or anyone esle was justified. Thats what i thought. Perhaps youd like to go back another 6 months and take something else out of context to justify your nonsense. lmao I guess i cannot make a post without expecting you to go on personal attack because some time back i dared mention i was a pretty good bench presser, or that i actually defended myself against others effectively from previous personal attacks a time or three. Now im open game and anything is justified. Fine knock yourself out son. lmao.

Anything to take the blame off of yourself for the personal attacks and emotional crap. The only reason ive even posted again is to defend against the ridiculous drivel. And now that has been accomplished, this line of conversation has run its course. My last post addressing it.

What damage control do you speak of? If you would learn to read the written word and had not try to make something out of a simple observation/question, then this never would have started in the first place.

Doesnt matter if im more intellectual than you, or dumber than a hoe handle, or even if you are in discussion with someone else the personal b.s. you start every time is uncalled for. My level of comprehension is very strong... Kinda like your internet "mouth" lmao.

Enjoy the thread you ruined.