Good starter Rifle

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Outdoor Adventures
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 11:10:34 (permalink)
I'm also a fan of the Seven. Own a 223,243,308,and a 300 WSM and they all shoot well. I like the way they handle. The 300 WSM XCR is topped with a Zeiss and is my favorite for larger game because of shooting ability and quick handling.IMHO I don't think one can go wrong with a Seven.
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 11:14:33 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

It has a lot to do with personal preference. I would probably go with a .243 in a bolt action rifle such as the Remington Model Seven. The 7mm08 is also a good caliber. Here is a chart to give you some idea of the recoil for a few well know deer calibers.

Caliber Recoil [Foot Pounds]
.243 8.4
.25-06 12.4
.270 15.7
7x57 12.2
.280 16.2
7mm Rem. Mag. 24.3
.308 14.8
.30-06 20.0
.300 Win. Mag. 27.2
.30-30 11.4



Nice chart OA, where did you get it? I'd be interested in seeing the recoil on the .338 and a 45-70. the only two calibers that I have that I don't like to pull the trigger on. I will say that my 7 mag doesn't seem that bad, more of a hard push than a kick...
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 11:33:01 (permalink)
My 338 leaves a big bruise.
My Ruger 7mm Mag has the synthetic stock and is pretty light-definitely sharp kick
I shot a 45-70 and thought it felt like a 12ga 3"


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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 12:17:03 (permalink)
Hope this helps you out.

Cartridge/ (Wb@MV)/ Rifle Weight/ Recoil energy/ Recoil velocity
.17 HMR (17 at 2550) 7.5 0.2 n/a
.17 Rem. (25 at 4000) 8.5 1.6 3.5
.204 Ruger (33 at 4225) 8.5 2.6 4.4
.218 Bee (45 at 2800) 8.5 1.3 3.1
.22 LR (40 at 1165) 4.0 0.2 n/a
.22 WMR (40 at 1910) 6.75 0.4 n/a
.22 Hornet (45 at 2800) 7.5 1.3 3.3
.22 PPC (52 at 3300) 8.5 3.0 4.8
.221 Fireball (50 at 3000) 8.5 1.8 3.7
.222 Rem. (50 at 3200) 7.5 3.0 5.1
.223 Rem. (45 at 3500) 8.5 2.6 4.5
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 8.0 3.2 5.1
.223 Rem. (62 at 3025) 7.0 3.9 6.0
.22-250 Rem. (55 at 3600) 8.5 4.7 6.0
.22-250 Rem. (60 at 3500) 12.5 3.1 4.0
.220 Swift (50 at 3900) 10.5 3.7 4.8
.220 Swift (55 at 3800) 8.5 5.3 6.4
.223 WSSM (55 at 3850) 7.5 6.4 7.4
6mm PPC (85 at 2800) 7.5 5.3 n/a
.243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.5 7.2 7.4
.243 Win. (95 at 3100) 7.25 11.0 9.9
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5 8.8 8.7
6mm Rem. (100 at 3100) 8.0 10.0 9.0
.243 WSSM (100 at 3100) 7.5 10.1 9.3
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3406) 8.0 17.9 n/a
.25-20 Win. (86 at 1460) 6.5 1.3 3.5
.25-35 Win. (117 at 2230) 6.5 7.0 8.3
.250 Savage (100 at 2900) 7.5 7.8 8.2
.257 Roberts (100 at 3000) 7.5 9.3 8.9
.257 Roberts (120 at 2800) 8.0 10.7 9.3
.25 WSSM (120 at 2990) 7.25 13.8 11.1
.25-06 Rem. (100 at 3230) 8.0 11.0 9.4
.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0 12.5 10.0
.257 Wby. Mag. (100 at 3602) 9.25 15.8 10.5
.257 Wby. Mag. (115 at 3433) 9.25 17.7 11.1
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 at 3300) 9.25 15.1 10.3
6.5mm Grendel (120 at 2600) 7.5 8.9 8.8
6.5x55 Swede (129 at 2700) 8.0 12.5 10.0
6.5x55 Swede (140 at 2650) 9.0 10.6 8.7
.260 Rem. (120 at 2860) 7.5 13.0 10.6
.260 Rem. (140 at 2750) 8.25 11.9 9.7
6.5mm-284 Norma (140 at 2920) 8.0 14.7 10.9
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 at 3100) 8.0 13.1 10.3
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 2900) 8.5 13.9 10.3
6.5x68 S (140 at 2990) 8.5 16.8 11.3
.264 Win. Mag. (140 at 3200) 8.5 19.2 12.1
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 at 2625) 7.5 8.0 8.3
.270 Win. (130 at 3140) 8.0 16.5 n/a
.270 Win. (140 at 3000) 8.0 17.1 11.7
.270 Win. (150 at 2900) 8.0 17.0 11.7
.270 WSM (130 at 3275) 8.0 18.7 12.3
.270 WSM (150 at 3000) 8.0 18.9 12.3
.270 Wby. Mag. (130 at 3375) 9.0 21.0 12.3
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 at 3000) 9.25 17.8 11.1
7-30 Waters (120 at 2700) 7.0 10.0 9.6
7x57 Mauser (139 at 2700) 8.75 11.7 9.3
7x57 Mauser (145 at 2725) 8.5 13.0 9.9
7x57 Mauser (160 at 2600) 8.0 14.3 n/a
7x57 Mauser (175 at 2500) 8.0 15.5 11.2
7mm-08 Rem. (120 at 3000) 7.5 12.1 10.2
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 8.0 12.6 10.1
.284 Win (150 at 2860) 7.5 17.4 n/a
7x64 (154 at 2850) 8.0 17.9 n/a
.280 Rem. (140 at 3000) 8.0 17.2 11.8
.280 Rem. (150 at 2900) 8.0 17.4 11.8
.280 Rem. (160 at 2800) 8.0 17.0 11.7
7mm Rem. SAUM (160 at 2931) 8.0 21.5 13.2
7mm WSM (140 at 3200) 8.0 20.7 12.9
7mm WSM (160 at 3000) 8.0 21.9 13.3
7mm Rem. Mag. (139 at 3100) 9.0 19.3 11.8
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 at 3100) 8.5 19.2 12.1
7mm Rem. Mag. (160 at 2950) 9.0 20.3 12.0
7mm Rem. Mag. (175 at 2870) 9.0 21.7 12.5
7mm Wby. Mag. (140 at 3300) 9.25 19.5 11.7
7mm Wby. Mag. (160 at 3200) 9.0 25.6 13.5
7mm STW (160 at 3185) 8.5 27.9 14.6
7mm Ultra Mag. (140 at 3425) 8.5 25.3 n/a
7mm Ultra Mag. (160 at 3200) 8.5 29.4 n/a
.30 Carbine (110 at 1990) 7.0 3.5 5.7
.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5
.30-30 Win. (160 at 2400) 7.5 12.7 10.5
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7
.30-40 Krag (180 at 2430) 8.0 16.6 n/a
.300 Sav. (150 at 2630) 7.5 14.8 n/a
.307 Win. (150 at 2600) 7.5 13.7 10.9
.308 Marlin Express (160 at 2660) 8.0 13.4 10.4
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5 18.1 12.5
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (165 at 2900) 8.0 20.1 12.7
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 12.8
.300 Rem. SAUM (180 at 2960) 8.25 23.5 13.6
.300 WSM (150 at 3300) 8.25 22.5 13.3
.300 WSM (180 at 2970) 7.25 27.1 15.5
.300 WSM (180 at 2970) 8.25 23.8 13.6
.300 Win. Mag. (150 at 3320) 8.5 23.5 13.3
.300 Win. Mag. (165 at 3110) 8.0 26.2 14.5
.300 Win. Mag. (180 at 2960) 8.5 25.9 14.0
.300 Wby. Mag. (150 at 3400) 9.25 24.6 13.1
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3240) 9.0 31.6 15.0
.300 Ultra Mag. (180 at 3230) 8.5 32.8 15.8
.30-378 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3300) 9.75 42.6 16.8
7.62x39 Soviet (125 at 2350) 7.0 6.9 8.0
7.62x54R Russian (150 at 2800) 9.0 13.1 9.7
7.62x54R Russian (174 at 2600) 9.0 15.0 10.4
7.65x53 Mauser (180 at 2500) 8.0 15.4 n/a
.303 British (150 at 2700) 7.5 14.2 11.0
.303 British (180 at 2420) 8.0 15.4 11.1
7.7x58 Jap (150 at 2700) 9.0 11.9 9.2
.32-20 Win. (100 at 1984) 6.5 3.3 n/a
.32 Spec. (170 at 2250) 7.0 12.2 10.6
8x57JS Mauser (150 at 2900) 8.0 17.1 11.7
8x57 Mauser (170 at 2400) 8.0 13.6 10.4
8x57JS Mauser (195 at 2500) 8.0 18.5 12.2
.325 WSM (180 at 3060) 7.5 33.1 16.9
.325 WSM (220 at 2840) 7.5 37.5 17.9
8x68S (150 at 3300) 8.5 25.3 13.9
8x68S (200 at 2950) 9.0 29.1 14.4
8mm Rem. Mag. (200 at 2900) 8.5 32.9 15.8
.338-57 O'Connor (200 at 2400) 8.0 19.2 12.4
.338 Marlin Express (200 at 2400) 8.0 16.2 11.4
.338 Marlin Express (200 at 2600) 8.0 22.0 14.0
.338 Federal (200 at 2600) 7.0 22.2 14.3
.338 Federal (210 at 2630) 8.0 21.9 13.3
.338-06 A-Square (200 at 2800) 8.0 23.9 13.9
.338-06 A-Square (250 at 2500) 8.5 28.2 14.6
.338 Win. Mag. (200 at 2950) 8.5 32.8 15.8
.338 Win. Mag. (225 at 2780) 8.5 35.2 16.3
.338 Win. Mag. (250 at 2700) 9.0 33.1 15.4
.338 Ultra Mag (250 at 2860) 8.5 43.1 n/a
.338 Lapua Mag. (225 at 3000) 9.5 37.2 15.9
.338-378 Wby. Mag. (250 at 3040) 11.75 41.1 15.0
.340 Wby. Mag. (200 at 3100) 10.0 29.6 13.8
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 at 2941) 9.0 43.4 17.6
.348 Win. (200 at 2510) 8.0 23.7 n/a
.357 Mag. (158 at 1650) 7.0 4.7 6.6
.35 Rem. (200 at 2050) 7.5 13.5 10.8
.356 Win. (200 at 2400) 7.5 17.5 n/a
.358 Win. (200 at 2490) 8.0 20.9 13.0
.358 Win. (250 at 2260) 7.66 23.0 13.9
.35 Whelen (200 at 2675) 8.0 22.6 13.5
.35 Whelen (225 at 2525) 8.0 25.0 14.2
.35 Whelen (250 at 2400) 7.5 27.9 15.5
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 at 2700) 8.5 22.3 13.0
.350 Rem. Mag. (225 at 2550) 8.5 24.2 13.5
.350 Rem. Mag. (250 at 2500) 8.5 29.0 14.8
9.3x62 (270 at 2550) 8.5 33.3 n/a
9.3x62 (286 at 2360) 9.0 28.0 14.1
9.3x74R (286 at 2400) 8.25 34.3 16.6
.370 Sako Mag. (286 at 2550) 8.5 35.2 16.3
.375 Win. (220 at 2200) 7.5 17.1 12.1
.375 Ruger (270 at 2840) 9.0 41.3 17.2
.375 H&H Mag. (235 at 2700) 9.0 29.5 14.5
.375 H&H Mag. (270 at 2690) 9.0 36.1 16.1
.375 H&H Mag. (300 at 2530) 9.0 37.3 16.3
.375 Ultra Mag (300 at 2800) 8.75 53.2 n/a
.376 Steyr (270 at 2580) 8.0 39.0 n/a
.378 Wby. Mag. (300 at 2900) 10.25 71.1 n/a
.38-40 Win. (180 at 1100) 7.5 3.1 5.2
.38-55 Win. (220 at 1650) 7.5 10.1 9.3
.38-55 Win. (255 at 1415) 7.0 9.5 n/a
.404 Jeffery (400 at 2170) 10.25 41.0 16.1
.405 Win. (300 at 2200) 8.0 30.6 15.7
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 at 2400) 10.0 52.9 18.5
.416 Rigby (400 at 2400) 10.0 58.1 19.3
.416 Wby. Mag. (400 at 2700) 10.25 83.0 22.8
.44-40 Win. (200 at 1200) 7.0 3.4 n/a
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 at 1760) 7.5 11.2 9.8
.44 Rem. Mag. (275 at 1580) 7.5 11.4 9.9
.444 Marlin (240 at 2400) 7.5 23.3 14.2
.444 Marlin (265 at 2200) 8.5 22.1 12.9
.45 Colt (255 at 1100) 8.0 4.0 5.6
.45 Colt +P (250 at 1500) 6.5 11.1 10.5
.45-70 (300 at 1800) 7.0 23.9 14.8
.45-70 (350 at 1900) 7.0 37.9 18.7
.45-70 (405 at 1330) 7.5 18.7 12.7
.450 Marlin (350 at 2000) 7.0 37.2 18.5
.450 Marlin (350 at 2100) 8.5 33.6 16.0
.458 Win. Mag. (400 at 2050) 9.0 41.7 17.3
.458 Win. Mag. (500 at 2100) 9.0 62.3 21.1
.458 Lott (500 at 2300) 10.0 70.4 21.3
.460 Wby. Mag. (500 at 2600) 11.25 99.6 n/a
.470 N.E. (500 at 2150) 11.0 69.3 20.1
.480 Ruger (325 at 1450) 6.25 16.4 13.0
.500 N.E. (570 at 2150) 12.0 74.5 n/a
.50 BMG (647 at 2710)
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/04/18 13:12:01
#34
Esox_Hunter
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 12:18:04 (permalink)
BD, here is a recoil table for just about any caliber I have heard of  http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
 
I couldn't find a specific number for the 12 gauge slugs I shoot, but it appears like they are in the 40-50 ft-lb range.  It sure is a lot of fun shooting a couple boxes of them off of the bench
#35
Outdoor Adventures
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 13:15:52 (permalink)
Ya it has a lot to do with design and weight of the gun itself. My Seven in the .308 has more recoil than my Weatherby Mark 5 in 300 WBY Mag. Go figure.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 13:35:32 (permalink)
30/30 Marlin lever action is the ONLY rifle I have EVER used (Remington 150 grain bullets).... paid $125.00 used and I would NEVER - EVER sell or trade it for ANYTHING out there !!!!!

I shoot three shots every November at our Halloween Pumpkin (50, 65, 85 yards) and if I hit it.. I'm done til next year .. Can't remember the last time I adjusted the scope...

IF I was to do anything I like to change the scope to one of the newer ones that has various powers... like my 22 rifle has... mine on the 30/30 doesn't adjust for magnification at all.....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/04/18 13:40:42

DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD MESSAGE BOARD


#37
retired guy
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 13:43:16 (permalink)
30/30 with 150s at 85yds - good luck Doc.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/04/18 16:19:53
#38
Outdoor Adventures
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 13:53:48 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

30/30 Marlin lever action is the ONLY rifle I have EVER used (Remington 150 grain bullets).... paid $125.00 used and I would NEVER - EVER sell or trade it for ANYTHING out there !!!!!

I shoot three shots every November at our Halloween Pumpkin (50, 65, 85 yards) and if I hit it.. I'm done til next year .. Can't remember the last time I adjusted the scope...

IF I was to do anything I like to change the scope to one of the newer ones that has various powers... like my 22 rifle has... mine on the 30/30 doesn't adjust for magnification at all.....


Perhaps that why you only shot 5 bucks since 1987 ? You can't see the fricken antlers !! Sight your gun in at a pumpkin, all I can say to that is WOW !!!!!!!!!!
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/04/18 13:55:50
#39
bulldog1
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 14:03:13 (permalink)
Thanks Essox and OA, I have a friend that has a 460 Weatherby Magnum, he straps 4" of foam to his shoulder when he sights it in. I have refused his repeated invitations to shoot it, after seeing that chart it appears I made the right decision...
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tippecanoe
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 14:40:28 (permalink)
Hey Kiddo, a lot of good advice here, I would personally not go with a short 30-30.  As said the hammer and the fact that it is short, are both very dangerous features for a kid.  never understood why so many dads ran out and got their boy a 30-30 on their 12th birthday.
 
I would prolly go with a .270 pump or bolt if I were in your shoes.  You will be filling out soon, and you will be fine with this flat shooting, realitively hard hitting caliber.  Just a personal preference.
 
Whatever you get, take very good care of it, and you will have it a lifetime.  Always give it at least a quick wipe down before you put it back in the case.
 
Good luck kiddo, let us know what you picked!
 
 
#41
Outdoor Adventures
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 15:33:51 (permalink)
My GF's first deer rifle was a .270 bolt at age 12. She's not a big girl nor was at that age. She has used many calibers though out her +30 years of hunting whitetails and recently went back to her first .270
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/04/18 15:37:27 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: bulldog1

Thanks Essox and OA, I have a friend that has a 460 Weatherby Magnum, he straps 4" of foam to his shoulder when he sights it in. I have refused his repeated invitations to shoot it, after seeing that chart it appears I made the right decision...


LOL Your welcome. Essox and I must of hit enter button at about the same time LOL. Chuck Hawks puts out some good stuff.
#43
pghmarty
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/01 15:39:46 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: bulldog1

Thanks Essox and OA, I have a friend that has a 460 Weatherby Magnum, he straps 4" of foam to his shoulder when he sights it in. I have refused his repeated invitations to shoot it, after seeing that chart it appears I made the right decision...


Is his name George?
He brought a .460 to hunt woodchucks a few years ago


#44
RIZ
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/03 12:26:24 (permalink)
as said many good calibers out there.  just would like to know your reasoning on why a lever rifle, do you think you need quick follow-up shot to put deer down?  that is a trap many young hunter get into.  it's not how many shot you can fire but how well you can fire them.  1 good shot is better than many poor shots.  the 30-30 is not a gun to have if you want versitility.  it has a very narrow ronge of usage, like deer less than 100 yards in semi open terrain.   it is not a good brusg gun because it get stopped by the bush.  jusy because it has a round nose does not necessaryly mean it can bust through trees.  the speed and energy from the charts indicate it is not versitile, not fast enough to shoot down range, not powerful enough to shoot big game or through brush.  i would seriously look at 308's.  they are inheriantly very accurate and you can but shells anywhere for as cheap as the make them.  they also have a wide range of use from long range shoot, used to be the standard for 1000 yd, to light recoil, to varmit with 125 grain bullets, to average everyday deer bullets in 150gr, 165 gr and 180gr and even 220 gr if you want big knock down for bear even moose.  and every gun made is chambered in 308.  actually you can say the same thing 3006.  so if you want versitility, there are much better choices than the 3030 and for a lever, stay away from the ones with hammers.
#45
fishenfool46
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/03 18:32:59 (permalink)
riz i disagree with you reason being most shots in the deer woods you are lucky to shoot 70 yards and more deer have been taken with a 30/30 than any 308 or 30/06.As for the long range shot they have com out with i think it is hornady the lever revolution bullet rubber tipped that has had excellent results out to 200 yards.As for a lever gun with a hammer marlin makes a great lever called the 336c has a push button safety that blocks the firing pin should the hammer drop.these come in 30/30 or 35 remington.I remember when i was twelve and carrying a sportized 1903 a3 at the start of the hunt was easy but by the middle of the day felt like i was toting a cannon.I wouldn't use a 30/30or 35 cal out west but in the pa west virginia woods a 30/30 or 35 rem with a 2-7 power scope is an ideal brush gun.just my 2 cents
post edited by fishenfool46 - 2011/05/03 18:56:43

I didn't say these are the ten suggestions
signed God
#46
RIZ
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/04 13:39:05 (permalink)
i'm not just considering deer as a target.  can you shoot grounfhogs out to 300 - 400 yds with a 3030? do you want to tke that 250 yd shot on that poweline where all the deer cross with a 3030? can you would you want to shoot a big black bear in the laurel withh a 3030 or at 200 yds at the bottom of a hollow?  would you take a 3030 on a maine moose hunt or colarado elk hunt?  do you want to try your hand at long range target shooting with a 3030?  the answer is no, but you could do all those with a 308 or 3006 0r a 280 or a 300 or a 7mm. if you just hunting deer in PA then a 3030 would work in certain situations, least of all, all situations you may encounter in PA
#47
wayne c
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/10 17:54:13 (permalink)
Some youth hunters in our group use 243 and 7mm-08 with good results. Id recommend either, but particularly the 7-08. Little better bullet weight and diameter and still light recoil.
#48
DanesDad
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/11 00:01:05 (permalink)
If ammunition availibilty and cost wasn't a factor, I'd go with the 7mm08. Instead, I'd look at the .270 or the .308. Good all around calibers, readily available, not big kickers and will kill anything roaming PA woods and fields.
#49
pghmarty
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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/11 00:17:12 (permalink)
Buy a good used gun and learn to shoot it.
Cal makes little difference for PA deer.
243, 270, 308 and 30-06 shells are sold at every KrapMart or Wally World and are on sale at the sporting goods chains every fall.
Other cal can get pricey especially if you need practice

Forgot 30-30
post edited by pghmarty - 2011/05/11 00:18:15


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RE: Good starter Rifle 2011/05/16 21:38:02 (permalink)
Hey Leo---
Now that we have given you more info than you ever probably thought possible whats up? Did you make a solid choice or get anything yet? Hope the guys here helped.
Good luck with whatever you do.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/05/29 22:07:28
#51
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