USP pushing settlement??

So would I but that's not the way it will happen. When ever you have a company with deep pockets going up against it's employees or a smaller company the normal tactic is for the bigger company to stall as long as possible and throw up challenges and roadblocks in order to deplete the weaker advisaries resources. If the PGC senses weakness on the part of the USP they will just continue to stall until they go broke. The only way the USP will get their day in court is if someone decides to give them enough money to compete. If that would happen then you would see a willingness to negoiate on the PGC's part rather than run the risk of a hearing. I've been through it on the weaker side and it wasn't fun although I sure learned a lot about our justice system.

"Instead of wasting all the money on this lawsuit that they probably cannot win for various reasons, usp shouldve put their money to use educating the public & letting them know whats going on & letting them know what they can do to help stop the nonsense."

EXACTLY!!!

If the USP didn't fully expect the PGC to stall, drag, and throw up sand in order to deplete USPs resources, then the USP has a REALLY crappy lawyer! Any first year law student would have seen that coming! Thats how the courts work, unfortunately, and it was truly shortsighted of USP not to anticipate this.

By the same authority that the pgc used to take the choice of whether or not a senior hunter can shoot a buck unless it has a certain amount of points while letting junior hunters use the old rules. Sure sounds like age discrimination to me.As far as surveys goes I put up what I think was a foolproof plan to let hunters choose for themselves what they want to shoot ,but the PGC doesn't want to hear of it. Does anyone here remember that pallone was the swing vote to pass the 4pt. rule against her constituents wishes? I believe that that was a deal between her alt & the pgc.so that she could become the first female comm. even though she was not the person that the sportsmen org. had nominated for the job. sam

"I feel sorry for those that do not want the law suit, knowing it may be the end of the usp.. "

Funny you should mention going broke... Just read recently where Penn. Fed. of sportsmen & conservationists were going broke, due no doubt to the many hunters not wanting to be affiliated with them because of their hard core environental stances and complete pgc support. Previously i heard they were suggesting Yard sales, garage sales & bake sales (lmao) to gain funding... Apparently they didnt go so well, as the main staff has quit for positions elsewhere according to a post on hpa (lol), and they are about to be kicked out of their headquarters building because those who are paying rent for penn fed are tired of having to foot the bill for them.

Also seems their were some allegations of money pilfering on part of someone within the organization. Someone at upper staff level gave statement that it was looked into and said claims cant be substantiated.

Real shame, couldve been a good hunter based group had they chosen to be that. Now, they get what they deserve. Lie down with dogs, you get fleas i guess. lol.

ORIGINAL: wayne c

"I feel sorry for those that do not want the law suit, knowing it may be the end of the usp.. "

Funny you should mention going broke... Just read recently where Penn. Fed. of sportsmen & conservationists were going broke, due no doubt to the many hunters not wanting to be affiliated with them because of their hard core environental stances and complete pgc support. Previously i heard they were suggesting Yard sales, garage sales & bake sales (lmao) to gain funding... Apparently they didnt go so well, as the main staff has quit for positions elsewhere according to a post on hpa (lol), and they are about to be kicked out of their headquarters building because those who are paying rent for penn fed are tired of having to foot the bill for them.

Also seems their were some allegations of money pilfering on part of someone within the organization. Someone at upper staff level gave statement that it was looked into and said claims cant be substantiated.

Real shame, couldve been a good hunter based group had they chosen to be that. Now, they get what they deserve. Lie down with dogs, you get fleas i guess. lol.

Any sources to cite or is this one of those "my friend's uncle's cousin's mistress" to me so type things?

Ironhed

Though I am not a member, I am hearing much the same thing.  Many different reasons cited but there are financial struggles looming.  Really mirrors the current economy as folks are deciding what is essential and what is not.

Any sources to cite or is this one of those "my friend's uncle's cousin's mistress" to me so type things?

Ironhed

Straight from the Club president:

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DATE: August 2, 2010
TO: All PFSC Members
FROM: Ted Onufrak, President
RE: State of Affairs
Please find enclosed your invitation to our Fall Convention. I hope you’ll attend the convention and join us as we discuss a number of issues important to not only the resource but to this organization and its future progress.
I’ve had a number of inquiries about the status of our state organization as well as our office staff and what the future holds for the PFSC. It’s obviously difficult to try and attend every county and/or club meeting and also speak personally to all of our “individual” members. Since it appears we also continue to have problems with our delegates and board members getting the word out to the membership, I thought this would be a good method for getting many of you updated on where we currently stand.
• Most of you should be aware that over the course of the last six months all of our full time staff has left for other positions. At Fall Convention the Board will be discussing the recruitment and funding of new staff for our state office.
• In the interim, the Executive Committee has hired Susan Hughes to staff the state office on a part-time basis, for three days per week. Susan will handle all office management duties including the bookkeeping, membership applications and other day to day office functions.
• Melody Schell was also retained to handle the publication of On Target, management of the website and to get our email list up and running again, including the legislative updates that many of you have become accustomed to.
• Over the past several months we’ve used Susan, Melody and another contract employee, Ken O’Donnell, to get our financial records in order and complete the tax return forms for the PFSC, PWF and the Endowment Foundation. Those tasks were completed by the July 15 deadline which was the second (and final) extension for filing requested by our Auditor.
• A recommendation by the Board at our January Board meeting to restructure the Board was accomplished at our June Board meeting when bylaws revisions were finally adopted by the Board. These revisions will reduce the size of the Board as well as create a new membership category.
• Another recommendation in January and discussed extensively at Spring Convention, was the need to revise our dues structure. A committee chaired by Bob Rittenhouse has been working on this and they will have their recommendation at Fall Convention – another good reason to try and attend. Currently, out of an approximate annual budget of $185,000, membership dues accounts for about $90,000. The Committee has been discussing proposals that will increase that amount by anywhere from $15,000 to $25,000 annually. Membership dues should be covering about 90% of the organization’s costs, but many feel that is unacceptable. The Board has provided input to the committee at the March and June board meetings, so hopefully information was carried back to the division meetings by board members.
• I’ve heard there are rumors that the PFSC is going bankrupt. Not true. I’ve spent the past couple months going through our financial records with the above mentioned contract employees as well as our auditor. There’s definitely been some very poor record keeping over the past year, which has resulted in confusing financial reports, but there’s been no indication of any fraud or theft, just poor money management and lack of oversight of expenses.• If there’s been any big gap in our funding, it’s been due to the lack of any fundraisers over the past 12 to 18 months. Our budget typically relies upon fundraising revenue of $50,000 to $80,000 per year. We need to reinstitute some fundraising activities to fill that budget gap.
• One of the larger PFSC expenses has been the cost of maintaining our state office building, which is owned by our Endowment Foundation. The Foundation has currently taken on those expenses (approximately $26,000 per year) and is renting office space to PFSC at $595 per month. Because the Endowment cannot afford to continue to cover those expenses indefinitely, they have put the building up for sale, with the hopes that any prospective buyers will continue to rent space to PFSC.•

Treasurer Ray Martin has recently submitted his resignation from the PFSC, the PWF and Endowment Foundation, so those positions will need to be filled at Convention. As many of you know, Ray has been with us for many years and we thank him for his service and wish him the best. We need members to step forward and let the nominating committee know of their interest in serving as Treasurer for each of these organizations.
It’s been a hectic past several months trying to get things in order. We are slowly making progress, and with Susan and Melody under contract things will continue to improve. But don’t be mistaken, we still have a ways to go to return to the level of operation that many of you have come to take for granted. How soon we can get back to that level of operation will depend largely on the outcome of any proposed dues structure as well as more members stepping forward to help with things such as fundraisers and increasing membership. There will be much discussion at the Fall Convention on these issues, as well as decisions about the direction the members want to see the organization take, so please try and attend. And if any of you have questions or concerns you should contact your county delegate and/or division chairman, but if you fail to get the answers you want please feel free to email me at tonufrak@uplink.net or call me at 814-574-3134.

---------------

Though they attempt to downplay it, and also state they arent going bankrupt, its pretty clear the financial situation is not exactly bright.

This is but one statement piece supporting what ive stated. The best example without needing to post several statements taken from various sources. For more tales of PFSC woe & suggestions for garage sales etc. as ive stated can be seen in the Penn Fed. forum on Huntingpa. Read through the threads and it becomes pretty clear.

You really do need to share that wacky weed your using so we can all join you in never,never land. Their Ex Director quit, their entire staff quit, their numbers of dues paying members went from over 100,000 to 91,000, their trying to sell the building that houses them to pay the bills, their members are revolting over having their names sold to the peddlers and anyone else to raise funds, Roxie Palone is trying to promote them on her blog, but the sky isn't falling and of course none of this has anything to do with the ongoing controversary within the organization over their support of the PGC's Herd Reduction program. Yes Doc, I would really like to try some of the stuff your smoking.

Their Ex Director quit

The ex director moved to the South with her new husband.. but I guess you would not understand that as a good reason to resign...

their entire staff quit

They got better jobs... gheez...
and if offered a better paying job you would turn it down RIGHT ???

their trying to sell the building that houses them to pay the bills

WRONG AGAIN... how can they be trying to sell something they do not own ???
They are/have been renters....





Here's how the PFSC works.... ONE MORE TIME...

Each county has clubs that belong.. they have a vote on positions and resolutions at each club..
each club's vote gets turn into the area delegate .. he then gets one vote for that area which has to be what the majority of the clubs in his area decided...

if one club quits because the others clubs (PFSC) do not agree then so be it.. you can't please all the people all the time...

My club voted to NOT support increasing the fine for driving ATVs on SGLs... the PFSC's total vote was the opposite.. so we should quit ???

There also is one delegate-at-large.. his one vote is the majority decision of all individual members he hears from .. and has nothing to do with the county figures (from clubs in that area)... just what the individual members think..

One gentleman that represents a club that has recently left due to the club in question being ignored in their input as hunters, has posted about this very recently as well on a thread in hpas i believe it was within general hunting thread that was just posted yesterday or this a.m. It was a bit of off topic discussion within the " Ecokooks Prevent Saving Valley Forge Forest" thread.

OKAY I checked it out ...

more positivie stuff in that thread than negative about the PFSC...

You are right ONE GUY posted his club quit because the PFSC supported PGC positions.. that's all he said... no details at all....

John S on the other hand posted several comments and times about how it was a 25cent increase in each clubs dues per club member that lead to the many of the clubs dropping out...... they could not afford it...

I love the one about how no one would complain about a quarter increase in the cost of a beer at the club ... but it's too much to support an organization trying to look out for Pa sportsmen as a whole..

how true is that !!!!


sorry.. this is far far far off the topic of the USP..... defense rests....

Because I knew the PFSC was paying RENT I did not figure they owned the building.. not sure why you would do that ??? but I am not a lawyer... If the Endowment Foundation and the PFSC are the same organization.. I stand corrected...


As for the 9,000 that is not members lost... it's the number of folks the PFSC REPRESENTS....

a club with 500 members gets one vote.. but if they quit the PFSC loses 500 represented members... and as I said effects out-comes on votes VERY little.. one vote from all the clubs in that in an area.. even if every club in an area were to quit the votes would only go down by one... while members may go down thousands... as I said may not effect anything but the number of hunters represented...

91,000 is still pretty good in my book....


that's also the dues for one club NOT 500 individual memberships dues either....

Especially a group that is more concerned with things like global warming than deer hunting in Pennsylvania

THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG..

the global warming idea is one reason the federation is no longer associated with the National Wildlife Federation... they (NWF) are TOTALLY into the global warming bull... and were VERY unhappy with the PFSC taking a "let's wait until more info is avaibale pro and con" attitude..

also all the enviro nuts, tree huggers, etc in the world can join as individual members... they can even outnumber the hunters.. BUT they will only get ONE VOTE from the delegate-at-large as to what the majority of individual members voted....

If it's that type of a cub with 5,000 members it still only counts as one club of several in someone's district...

gheezz . why are you finding the voting method so hard to understand ????...

you obviously do not know how the voting on issues and resolutions goes, even though I have posted to try to explain how it works several times..

ONE last time ===

let's say a local delegate for clubs has 5 clubs in his area.. .... IF three clubs vote yes and two votes no (even if the no clubs have ten times more members) he votes = one vote for approval.... THAT's IT ....that simple... the majority of clubs is his area approved of the issue...

thats's why issues that have hunters split fairly evenly are causing hard feeling by the ones not getting what they want in the final vote... it usually is very close...