State DEC proposes $14 million in fee hikes

Future conversation between father and son...

"Dad can we go fishing?"

"Sorry son I can't take you fishing because I was one of the 9000 state workers Paterson laid off. So with that and the tax increases I can't afford to pay the extra $10 for a fishing license."

Paterson and the leaders of this state are a joke. They have turned this once great state into a laughing stock for the rest of the country.
 
It won't raise what they say because the casual sportman/woman won't pay the elevated price for something he/she will only use a couple times. And I know you hardcore guys are saying "Good more room for me." but think about it. That casual sportsman/woman may had took his/her's kid fishing and in turn that kid comes to appreciate the environment and becomes a hardcore sportsman and helps preserve the environment for future generations like we try to do. Now, what if that kid doesn't get to go fishing, he/she doesn't become a hardcore sportsman/woman that looks out for the environment but instead becomes the developer who just plowed over your favorite fishing hole to build a 200 unit condo complex because what does he/she care, they don't fish.
 
Well, that is how I see. I'm sure others will see it differently...
                                Tight Lines Mates, Cheers

This state as much as I love the outdoor opportunities it offers is quickly becoming a state the neither I or my children will soon be able to afford. Wisdom you are right all this will do is keep the occasional sportsmen from introducing our passions to the next generation. If you think about all the hidden taxes we pay on a daily basis.

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

If you look at the increase you also must notice the $10.00 decrease in the 1 day fee, that 15.00 fee was just ridiculous to the person who may hire a single day charter to fish.

I can see where that would be an advantage for someone who gets paid $200 or $300 a day for guide/charter service.
 
Point is where does it stop? Fees for camping in some State Parks quietly went up $2 to $3 per day last year. I camped about 20 days lasts year, thats an extra $40 to $60 I had to pay on top of huge gas prices. Now I get to pay more for a license? B*LL****!!! Continuing increases are going to price some of us out of the sport and in turn put business that we support in jeopardy too. So yeah it is a buck here and a buck there but it adds up. Somebody needs to look at the long term affects.

I do not support an idiot as blind as a bat, that jerk can never appreciate what peace we see in freedom.. and new york city will always be a crumbling city with huge liabilities. At least we had what we had and we see what is coming. Just enjoy it until you no longer find it enjoyable! jmho

ORIGINAL: Wisdom

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

If you look at the increase you also must notice the $10.00 decrease in the 1 day fee, that 15.00 fee was just ridiculous to the person who may hire a single day charter to fish.

I can see where that would be an advantage for someone who gets paid $200 or $300 a day for guide/charter service.

 

 
first of all is NO advantage to the guide or charter service,I don't pay license fees for clients,  don't know where the ax to grind there is. The Advantage is to the person who does not fish on a regular basis and must pay only slightly less for someone who does. The hope & theory of a single day fee (kinda like the FREE fishing days) is they may like the sport enough to buy a season license which will further support the fishery.
 
Please sit back and really think about this:
I'll stick with fishing only because that seems the most popular.
increase from $19.00 to $29.00 for 365 days of fishing NY waters.
that equates to less then a 3 cent per day increase. making the fishing license cost of just less the 8 cents per day. And means .56 cents per week.
Now lets say an average angler fishes 10 times a year, yea I know all us posters here are REAL fishermen, but lets just say for kicks. That equates to $2.90 per outing. Now lets just say they fish 10hrs per outing, just to keep it simple ya know. That equates to .29 cents per hour.
NOW who in the He!! here is going to work for .29cents per hr. ? But wait it's fishing right, not work. Where do most of the fish in NY come from ? the stork ? Oh yea they were always there, it's my right to hunt and fish.
Well sorry to say the industrial revolution and all that modernization was there before too, right ? The things we have today (ah the internet we gladly pay for) changed the face of this earth forever.
Why would one not want to pay slightly more to protect our privilege, yea sporting is a privilege not a right.
 
Now for those cash strapped and think it's too much to pay:
There are thousands of filthy rich PIGS who litter these lands in NY state with their .05 cent bottle returns. Drive along any highway and one could easily pick up the .03 cent difference per day in bottle returns. But shoot that means a little involvement and it may seem easier to POACH .
Well again I am putting my efforts toward poachers, I submitted to the DEC my support in raising the fines for wildlife violations. I feel they are WAY to soft and need to be hitting people hard : first offence min. $200.00 fine , second $500.00 & loss of privileges for 5 years , 3rd offence , $1,000 fine loss of all related equipment (including vehicles) and revoke all license privileges for life in NY. After all it is theft and of not only my moneys but all license holders, to me thats grand larceny.
 
So if you still can stand to read more, I have more:
Now who here fishes for free ?
I do, I fish the Hudson river, not as much as I used to but it's right down stream from my trib behind my house.You know what it costs me to fish there ?  $0.00 . What do I get from that ? I get a (used to be ) NY state class bass fishery, ocean run striped bass, ocean run shad,  all the catfish & bullhead one could ever wish to haul in & just think my kids would fish for hours only having me re-bait their hook on those white perch. If thats the only fishing one was to do then what more could one ask.
 
State Parks :
Hummm , let me thinks on this........ whats the rate now ? Well I just pulled some receipts from last year. Rates Vary depending on location and facilities. Here , Selkirk Shores, water & Electric 10/5>10/10=6days in the park $104.00 , 6 friggen days, try a private park at $40.00 + a day.
Wilmington Notch, yea it increased to $16.00 an nite whew, that hot shower alone was worth that.
Here we go , Rollins Pond, well 6/9>6/14 = $108.00 what did I get out of that ?
But wait, How many times did I camp on State land for free ? even fish our darn waters only to pay my fishing license cost ? I'll bet more then most just fish in a year ?
 
Come on lets be real, it's there for our use , it's what you decide to make of it. A small increase only secures that it will remain for our (my) grandchildren....
 
Enough said and I have said enough.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Tuna, I like numbers. You said "that 15.00 fee was just ridiculous to the person who may hire a single day charter to fish" That $10 decrease is a little over 66.6% or 3% of the $300 they are paying you for a day charter. Where the $10 increase is to a regular fishing license is a little over 52.5%. Moffit Beach increase from $15 to $18 that is 20%, Selkirk $18 up to $20 that is a little over 11% increase. So your saying that guy that don't fish alot or support the adjacent economy deserves a discount where the guy that fishes more and does support the adjacent economy should pay even more. Hmmmm, I say stick it too the part timers. That's what you do to tourist and aren't part timers really just tourists?
Anyways, my point on the other hand was "Where do the increases stop?" The last license increase of $4 was what? 2 years ago? If you follow trend that would make the next increase what about $16 making a fishing license $45? Then the next $22 making it $67? and so on. Guess that guy is going to have to pick up alot of cans. Oh wait, he is to busy looking for a job to feed his family because he just got laid off because some rich guy who only fishes once a year needed a bailout.
And if you think this money is going into the conservation fund for our benifit, your not a very smart fishy (or maybe just naive). There is not even an accounting of where the consevation fund money is being spent. In fact the money from the sale of the pheasant farm is slated to go to the general fund and not back the conservantion fund where it came from in the first place. This increase won't add to the DEC budget or secure that it is here in the future for our grandchildren, just reduce the amount coming from the general fund.
I'd love to continue to debate this but I'm am really going tired of it. I'll just say this "If you give them and inch they will take a mile and when that isn't enough they will take a pound of flesh too."
Tight Lines Mates, Cheers

Wait a second here... 

Fish don't come from storks? 

 
They DO ... as a by-product  LOL !!!

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

My friends,it's best to have some facts.
Facts I have, If you notice in the last page of the fishing regulations handbook you will see a list of names,  Fishing Funding Management:
My Uncle & children's Godfather is listed and serves on that board.

Facts? I was just making up as I go along. Here is some facts. This is just a couple pieces of the whole testimony.

JANUARY 13, 2009
Testimony of the New York State Conservation Council, Inc.
Presented by President Harold Palmer
Before the Environmental Conservation Committee Hearing
On the Implementation of the 2009 Environmental Conservation Budget

The spending of sportsmen's dollars in the Conservation Fund has not been accounted for. I asked Judith Enck for a breakdown of where our money was spent. She did not have one; DEC Commissioner Grannis does not receive one, and the CFAB does not receive one. The only report available is a pie chart, which can be found in the CFAB report. If no one knows what the money is spent on, how can anyone say the Conservation Fund is in the red?

The proposed $10 Trout and Salmon Stamp: We oppose this unless the money goes into a dedicated account for raising and stocking trout and salmon. After the Pheasant Farm closing, we no longer trust the Governor’s office and Budget to keep the fish hatcheries open.

Ok Tuna maybe your family and friends can tell us where the money goes. President Harold Palmer's testimony seems to contradict some of your "facts".
You said "Again the lower 1 day fee is to try and get our people involved in the sport." As far as "Your people" that might get involved in the sport, I rather a father be able to afford to take his kids so they might get involved in the sport. Fishing has always been a relatively inexpensive sport. A hook, line and piece of bait. A $10 increase to die-hards is no big thing, but given the current economic state, to someone just coming into it or the guy who wants to take his kids fishing, it just may be a deterrent.

Tight Lines Mates...Cheers

now I'm just bustin stones and really this is all silly. We are all on the same page here and if you really read the whole statement by Mr. Palmer you will clearly see that He only re-instates MY facts. Also If the entire 101 pages submitted to the conservation council were read (i have) then one could see the work involved from the DEC, work that costs $$. Mr. Palmer's statement is a bit outdated seeing as the Pheasant farm was not closed and was due to the legal issues presented by Mr. Palmer. That was a bad move on Patterson (believe me I have no respect for him) and with the efforts of the Advisory board and Conservation Council it was stopped. Personally I think it should be closed but that is here nor there. As for the financial report, that was asked to be produced on or before Jan. 2009. That report as always has been presented and will be presented, (by my family & friends LOL) even though it may not have been available before the ending date of 2008 when it was requested. (kinda tough to present something when it's not completed)

Also to note here is that the Conservation Council requested these license increases which we are discussing.
Instead of a trout/salmon stamp, institute a license fee increase of $10 for each of these resident licenses: fishing, small and big game, trapping, sportsman, super sportsman, and hunting. Increase non-resident fishing, hunting, trapping and super sportsman licenses by $20. This will bring in over $10 million.
now as I said here over and over, I supported and recommended a $5.00 increase, the Conservation Council is getting what they want with what they clearly feel is a needed $10.00 increase.

Think of this, they are not MY PEOPLE,they are our resources. That is exactly the goal, a working or struggling family who might NOT otherwise take a kid fishing because they cant afford a license for something they normally would not do. At $5.00 instead of the ridiculous cost of $15.00 for what might possibly only be the 1 time per year they can. Believe me there are many people who only go fishing 1 time, sad but true. In this economy my door is not exactly being knocked down to pay for a licensed guide. I realize what’s going on out there and I offer anything I can to help people get involved in the sport. One has no idea how much involvement I offer of my own free time to helping people and the involvement with DEC. and other outdoors organization groups. That is not the point or I do expect a pat on the back, it's just my values and the way I was raised.
+(out of context here ) Heck why not support the working families, I thought that was the point ? What’s the difference between buying tackle and supporting shops and paying for use of my equipment and knowledge ? If guiding was my sole income I'd be tough to make ends meet. Again , it's a service provide not required.

Fishing is STILL the cheapest form of sporting available. @ .08 cents per day ,.56 cents per week , $29.00 per year where else in NYS can you find a deal like that ? 9 years of not an increase was a pretty good run and with the rising costs of everything else I feel it is time we preserve at least what we have. If that means a so called sharp increase of $10.00 then it is what it is.

I think as I said , we are on the same page here just slightly different opinions, and really that a good thing. We can debate things that’s what freedom is about. My personal feelings are to help people understand where my thoughts , beliefs and information stem from.
There are much BIGGER issues here in NY that we should be focusing our efforts on , TAX issues fishing licenses are not a tax.

Someday we'll kick back together on the water and laugh about all this internet discussion.

now in the immortal words of Mr. King.... "I have a dream"
 

 u two are like two power attornies going at it! So the bottom line is where the money is to be used inside the books. Truth is, I am honored to support fish and wildlife preservation through my anual  license fee. I do not however care to support new agencies such as hls or nsa bs through my fishing license fees.