The next step

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John 316
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2008/09/11 09:58:46 (permalink)

The next step

Last year I took my fly fishing rig to Erie.  St Croix 8wt, 6lb leader, wf line, okuma integrity reel.  On my second drift, I had a nice looking steelhead on.  That's when I realized I had no idea what to do next.  I let it run a little, and the second I started to try and reel him in, the leader snapped and he was gone for someone else to catch. 
 
My question is, what's everyone's prefered method for bringing in a steelhead on a fly rod.  Chase it till it tires?  Rod up or down?  Stear it toward the bank?  When do you choose to fight back, reel in?
 
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    RIZ
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 10:41:00 (permalink)
    you must have had a bad knot or a knick in your line.  you fight the fish as you would with a spinning reel.  put enough pressure on it to tire it out without breaking it off.  use the leverage in you rod to fight it by moving the rod around to apply different angles to the fish, this will tire it out faster.  try to keep the fish in the same pool, if it runs up/down stream you go with it.  the idea to to land it as quickly as possible so everyone can start fishing again.
    #2
    JMZ82
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 10:57:22 (permalink)
    I agree you must have had something going on with a knot or something, but really all you have to keep in mind is if the fish decides to run its going to run.  I got into a school of some fresh fish last year that once they were hooked would take off as fast as you could imagine.  The first few snapped my line because I couldn't get my hand off the real or line fast enough, I eventually caught on and was careful not to hold on to much when the next one bit.  You'll want to put as much tension on as you think you can safely without breaking the line.  If I have an opportunity to grab or shore the fish I do so it doesn't run up or down stream into someone else. Just keep hooking up, you'll get use to it and catch on. Practice makes perfect.
    #3
    doubletaper
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 11:08:39 (permalink)
    you tire a fish faster by applying side pressure on it than directly behind or in front of the fish. so if you need to, get on shore and try to keep the fish across from you if room permits. as the fish tires either tighten your drag some or palm your reel with pressure as the fish runs. putting the right pressure palming the reel you'll aquire with time.  good luck ~dt
     
    if you read the fishing reports you'll see very few people land every steelie they hook up with.

    http://streamsidetales.bl...015/05/helles-yea.html
    it's not luck
    if success is consistent 





    #4
    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 13:20:02 (permalink)
    I agree with everyone else here.  I feel the most important thing while fighting a steelhead(aside from good knots) would have to be to apply side-pressure.  By far this technique will tire the fish much more quickly, do not let the fish remain stationary or "dog" you in the current, if you let him do these things he will regain energy.  It is a far easier concept to grasp by watching someone do it.  The most important thing is to make sure the fish is almost always fighting both you and the current, by continually making him turn his head against the current you can accomplish this. 
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    fishmonger
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 19:27:03 (permalink)
    An older gentleman on Elk, years ago, told me that there are two columns; Fish hooked and fish landed. Landing 2 or 3 out of ten hooked, especially in the early going of the season is pretty good for me. 

    Fishmonger
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    anchke
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 19:30:44 (permalink)
    Rod up or down? 
     
    Good Q. A. is down, which coincides with the advice to put pressure
    on from the side.  Think of applying pressure from your rod's mid-section, rather than the tip or butt. You see some anglers holding the rod vertically, but they're afflicted by popped leaders a/o the dreaded slipped tippet knot.
    #7
    indsguiz
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/11 19:55:35 (permalink)
    Heck John; just do what I do:  Throw away the leader and the tippett and just use extra limp 6# or 8# MONO and make the fish work.  I prefer rod up and also side pressure.  My goal is to land fish not go for nice long walks beside the tribs.  This is just my opinion guys but I went the lighter and lighter route years ago, and when I finally learned that I was into more of an ego trip with myself (let's see if I can land one on a 4wt with 1.5 pound  tippett) I decided to concentrate on enjoying the fishing and not with trying to go too light.  I will still go light(er) if conditions dictate but I'd rather: hook 6 fish land 5 fish than hook 10 and land 1.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #8
    clinchknot
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 08:07:27 (permalink)
    I agree with indsguiz. Last year I went to 8# spider wire and very rarely lost a fish. The only knots you have are the perfection loop at one end and at the fly at the other.
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    RIZ
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 10:51:31 (permalink)
    also another tip is to point the rod at the fish when it decides to make a run.  the stepper the angle between the line and rod the more friction on the end guide , the more force there is on the tippet and knots.  you can gradually increase the the drag by 'palming' the reel to add pressure to the fish and stop the run.
    #10
    NotherOne
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 12:19:16 (permalink)
    i too have gotten away from all the knots associated with a tapered leader.   bad eyes and cold fingers are not a good combo for knot tying. 
     
    i usually use 8 lb. or 6 lb in real clear conditions.   
     
    a friend of mine uses a small barrel swivel about 4 feet up to avoid having to rety to the fly line.
    he catched a ton of fish.
     
    i think we overcomplicate this stuff sometimes.
    #11
    Cold
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 12:23:18 (permalink)
    Well this has got me to thinkin...I recently ponied up for a spool of Seaguar InVisX 6# fluoro and have enough to refill my spool twice with change.  Might I put that change to good use as a steelhead leader?  If so...you just tie your tippet right to that?  or the fly?
    #12
    dano
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 16:40:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Cold

    Well this has got me to thinkin...I recently ponied up for a spool of Seaguar InVisX 6# fluoro and have enough to refill my spool twice with change.  Might I put that change to good use as a steelhead leader?  If so...you just tie your tippet right to that?  or the fly?

     
    Yea, ya could and that would be fine and more economical than tippet spools.
    But, Seaguar Grand Max tippet material would be have a stronger test breaking strength to diameter ratio. You so pay$$ for it, though.
     
    Invis is        .008 (3x) diameter and 6 lbs.
    GrandMax is  .008 (3X) diameter and 9.2 lbs
     
    Grand

    Gone Fishing
    #13
    saltflyfisher
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 18:20:55 (permalink)
    Not to prove you wrong but: If you take that rod and hold it vert. w/ the rods grip at waist level, the amt of pressure your exerting is small. Holding the rod horz. w/ the rods butt in the same location of your waist w/ bring the bend of the rod through to its butt.

    Easy way to show you is have someone hold the line about 20 ft from you and you bring the rod up to what you would find a fighting position, now w/o letting the amt of pressure you have on the rod lessen, slowly bend the rod horz.. What your find is the rod bends through its complete length to its butt.

    Popped leaders are due to a couple items the fish takes off fast, knot slips, or line just is to small.

    Slowly pull on a length of 8 lb line of a given length and your find it breaks at greater than 8 lb. Now take that same length line and quickly pull, your find it seems to break at even less than that 8 lb rating. To compensate for the fast reaction of the fish, get used to dropping the rod horz at the fish or push the rod towards it. Any one of these will give you the time needed to react to the fishes sudden movement. By doing these you lessen the drag by eliminating any drag produced from the rod eyes and its overall bend. the last thing to remember is prior to getting use to a new reel or rod set-up is the drag on a fly reel should only be set tight enough to stop a backlash of the line on the reel. Any additional drag can be added by using your palm on the reels outer edge.

    The only time I ever tighten the reel is w/ the larger salt species and this is out of need to stop a long run or pull a fish away from structure.

    The only other thing i recommend that people do w/ their fly rod set-up is to loose a fish or two on purpose to test the limits of the line and what it feels like to have enough pressure on that fish to get it in quickly. A person that lets a fish run and never seems to have control is not aware of the outfit they have in hand and its ability to do a job.



    ORIGINAL: anchke

    Rod up or down? 

    Good Q. A. is down, which coincides with the advice to put pressure
    on from the side.  Think of applying pressure from your rod's mid-section, rather than the tip or butt. You see some anglers holding the rod vertically, but they're afflicted by popped leaders a/o the dreaded slipped tippet knot.
    #14
    anchke
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 19:41:53 (permalink)
    Hi, Salt. I think we're in agreement on rod position when fighting a fish question. I'm saying you apply max steady pressure when the rod is down, not vertical. (Though of course you're not just letting line run out the guides, either.) I generally advise beginners to think of themselves fighting the fish -- especially a running fish -- in their living rooms, i.e., they have a ceiling to contend with. My advice (and I think yours) is counter to the sometimes heard maxim: "give 'em the butt," which means the rod is taken up and past vertical, putting max pressure on tippet and knots and giving Mr. Fish the advantage.  I'd hate to think I was misinforming all those eager youngsters, but at least I was preaching what I practice. Thanks for your response.
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    clinchknot
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 20:05:45 (permalink)
    Cold, I don't use tippet at all. I just use about an 7' or 8' foot piece of 8# and tie the fly directly to that. When you think it's getting too short, remove it from your fly line and tie on another 7' or 8' piece. 
    #16
    indsguiz
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 20:31:43 (permalink)
    Clinchknot,
     
      I've been preaching that for YEARS.  Only I generally use 6#.   I was to the point where I tied my own step down leaders and then tied even smaller tippett on the end.  As I got older I went to leader/tippett.  Then leader.  Now it's just 6# mono unless it's really clear and very low.  Then I use a net.  LOL

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
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    clinchknot
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/12 23:36:49 (permalink)
    I only use the 8# because I have some left over from spooling up my spinning reels. The nice thing about spiderwire is it has a really thin diameter so I can still use it in low, clear conditions and not give up any strength. 
    #18
    beerman
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    RE: The next step 2008/09/13 15:20:11 (permalink)





    The following was posted by Randy Jones on the old salmon River discussion board:




    posted on 12-Feb-2003 12:57:41 PM




    Fish Fighting Techniques for Steelhead:

    I guarantee you'll learn some new stuff, and may be afraid to try!

    This time of the Yr. I'm using light tippets. So before I even wet my line, I loosen my drag just light enough that when I pull on the line quickly I don't end up with a bird's nest. A large # of fish are lost in the first 10 seconds due to, too tight of a drag. Initially upon hook-up there is nothing you can do to control the immediate reaction of the fish. In this way, when Mr. Steelhead makes that made dash for freedom, I still hopefully have him on. Then I'll tighten my drag a wee bit. Now it's time for you to take control.
    My personal # 1 rule is to immediately get even or below the fish. (Obviously, there are exceptions to this) Not all fish react the same when being hooked, so there's a slight tactical delay before this decision is made. 75% of the time a fish will run in the opposite direction it feels pressure. A run upstream where it has to fight the current and drag is optimal. 80% of the angler's I see on the river stand still and let the fish take control, which usually ends up with angler and fish parting ways. Or the angler's reaction is to slow incoming that the fish is already charging down stream. We all know this is not the easiest river to negotiate, let alone with a ROCKET SHIP at the end of your line. If you give it an inch it'll take 10 ft., putting rock's, rapids, snag's, holes, between you and your Quarry.
    My # 1 ½ rule (that I repeat 2-3 times in the A.M.) is to- not hold the line (you can't hold'em), don't palm the reel (remember the drag was initially set so any additional pressure can and most probably will break it off?) and to not hold the reel handle. I mention this with a grin, as rarely does a day go by where 1 to 4 fish aren't lost due to the adrenaline rush that follows most hook-ups and the accompanied forgetfulness. Once even or below, I lower, bend my rod downstream. (Butt of rod is pointed down stream) Sometimes touching tip to water. This is called the down and dirty, and is the easiest way to tire a fish. By staying at least even with the fish and rod angled with a downstream bend you are exerting the maximum amount of pressure, forcing the fish to use additional energy to stay upright and not be pulled backwards. (If fish is further than 50 ft. away, I will keep my tip up as the more line in the water will create an unwanted stress on the lighter tippets and may break. Also if the area is loaded with snags or rocks.) If it starts to move downstream then you need to move with it, immediately.
    A lot of the time I see angler's standing above the fish with tip up. All you are achieving with this is to hold the fish in the current with no additional pressure, not tiring it in the least. This allows it to rest and take you further downstream. Worse than this, is to try to pull a fish up against the current. When light lining this is a big no-no and is usually followed by - Fish Off.
    When the fish starts to tire the next step is to immediately point the tip of the rod towards the tree's on the bank behind you. This acts as a slingshot, which moves the fish closer to shore. It will not come to shore with rod tip held high with no angle. (unless it's dead) Side pressure is the key to effectively and efficiently tiring and bringing in this world class fish.

    If you're afraid to experiment and try something new, then please, do not read on.

    80% of the time these additional fish fighting techniques and tactics will help. So don't blame me if you hit the 20%!

    Stalling tactic:
    We all love to see the somersaults, jumps; tail walks and torpedo runs they make. But, 50% of the time the show ends with no curtain call or encore performance. I prefer, after hooking-up, if it decides to show its colors to throw it slack. (Pull line off the reel A.S.A.P.) If hook set is good, it won't throw it and they normally quite down. The action it takes is due to the pressure it feel's. So by releasing the pressure it no longer feel's threatened and will tend to stop on a dime. This allows you to regroup and take control. (With spinning rods, this has the same effect by opening the bail) Throwing it slack is also a great way to stop it's screaming run downstream into snags, deep water, (where you can't go) or at least slow it down so you can catch up.

    When reeling in the fish with the tip up:
    There are 2 things wrong with the previous sentence. #1. I will sometimes hold my rod upside down with tip in water when bringing in a steelhead. Fish don't breath air and with tip up it feel's as if (which you are) trying to pull it's head out of the water. This creates a havoc, wrecking ball of nerves that sometimes ends with fish off. I breathe air, so if you put my head under the water you can be assured I would not be happy. (Same with the fish) By holding your rod upside down with rod tip in the water the fish normally will slowly and quietly come in without much fuss. This is only used when fish is tired and ready to be brought in. It is also sometimes used as a stalling tactic.

    #2 Whenever targeting large species of fish the rod becomes a flexible lever. We never reel the fish in; we PULL the fish in. The reel is only used to recover slack line. Pull-up, reel-down. Now combine #1 with #2 and by George, you've got it!

    Walking the dog:
    Here's another technique that has worked for me. If I'm working a piece of fast, deep water that is not easily waded. Upon hooking-up, I immediately lighten up and only bend the tip of the rod slightly. Remember what I said earlier about pressure? With only a slight bend in the rod the fish feels little to no pressure and maintains its position in the river. I then slowly move to a safer area and believe it or not normally it will follow. Once I'm in a safe position, I give it to'em.

    It's miller time!

    Randy Jones


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    beerman


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