What do you see/thing about this picture 
elephanthead
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 15:35:56
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T.T. , Spoonie, you're killin me - too funny !!! Dave
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CR500
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 16:28:06
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Was that fish lined? The odds are good. A fish taking a swat at a fly can get hooked in some very odd places. I fished for gills all summer and hooked plenty outside the mouth. Should TU have caught the over-site? Maybe not. Everyone here fishes for steel or salmon and knowing what a lined fish looks like is part of this game. However, several here didn't know what a lined fish looks like and I would suspect that there are plenty of TU members that don't fish for steel or salmon. Many don't fish for steel or salmon because they look at the GL tribs as a circus. I don't think it's too hard to believe that the 4 or 5 people that approved the picture for the calender aren't salmon or steelhead fisherman. Should they have seen it? Probably so but should the entire organization be judged by one picture? I don't think so either.
post edited by CR500 - 2007/10/10 16:29:04
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Wild John
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 16:39:48
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Guys- I hate to tell you this, but "lining" is at least one of if not THE preferred method of fishing salmon in Alaska. See the sliding bead rig here http://www.alaskasport.com/beadfishing.htm This rig would be illegal in most of the lower 48 states, but it is not only legal but specifically regulated in AK. I agree, it's cheating, but you have to realize that you are dealing with a fish that isn't eating- period. The fish strikes out of agression/annoyance/or even to promote it's own spawn over others. Now, that being said, I've never seen it done with a clouser/leetch pattern, but those Becks can Do It All! Shouldn't throw stones, I caught my one and only permit on a fly that Barry himself tied. -Wild John
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Bughawk
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 18:28:34
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Wild John I have heard that lining salmon in Alaska is legal and done, but in Pennsylvania lining, snagging, lifting or whatever you want to call it is illegal. Steelies do bite flies and bait. I realize that is a temptation of catch steelies with whatever means when you are standing in a small creek looking at a 100 fish right in front of you. The idea is to get the fish to hit a fly. The fish may bite out of hunger, aggression, boredom, who knows, but the they will bite. Bottomline, when you are fishing, please obey the local laws. It is not hard to snag a fish, but it can be quite a task to get one to hit your fly. Personally I would rather know I caught a fish because it hit my fly than to know I snagged it.
post edited by Bughawk - 2007/10/10 23:08:47
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spoonchucker
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 18:41:35
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John,
The bead method used in Alaska is intended to protect the Rainbows, which not only eat, but feed agressively on eggs. While the intent IS to place the hook on the outside of the mouth, it is not "lining" in the traditional sense. The idea is entice the fish to TAKE the bead, not pull the line through the fishes mouth untill the bead reaches the fishes mouth. The rig allows the fish to take the bead, without risk of being deep hooked.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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Stillhead
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 18:49:59
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ORIGINAL: Wild John
Guys- I hate to tell you this, but "lining" is at least one of if not THE preferred method of fishing salmon in Alaska. See the sliding bead rig here http://www.alaskasport.com/beadfishing.htm
This rig would be illegal in most of the lower 48 states, but it is not only legal but specifically regulated in AK. I agree, it's cheating, but you have to realize that you are dealing with a fish that isn't eating- period. The fish strikes out of agression/annoyance/or even to promote it's own spawn over others.
Now, that being said, I've never seen it done with a clouser/leetch pattern, but those Becks can Do It All!
Shouldn't throw stones, I caught my one and only permit on a fly that Barry himself tied.
-Wild John
Edit, spoon replied while I was typing, I'll let it here anyway. There is a HUGE difference between the lining we're talking about and fishing with beads to represent eggs. The fish is actually taking the bead/egg (or at least that is the goal,to get them to take it) , this allows the line to enter the fishes mouth. So the fish are actually taking your lure. We are talking lining when the fish unknowingly, either breaths the line in, or more common, the current forces the line into it's mouth. It doesn't matter whats on the end of the line, it can be done with anything. Although some things (sponge,estaz,glo bug yarn) have a little boyancy and allows the line to float just off the bottom. I've not been to Alaska, but I believe your are incorrect that the beeds are used for salmon, I know they are very popular with those targeting trout near spawning salmon, again, the beeds imitate salmon eggs and the fish actually strike them. I'm sure though there are plenty of snaggers who use them, they generally use any means possible. I'm also not so sure about the beads being illegal in the lower 48. Keeping foul hooked fish in illegal in PA, foul hooked being anywhere outside the mouth. It is possible to hook them inside the mouth with beads.
post edited by Stillhead - 2007/10/10 18:52:17
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rippinlip
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 19:58:13
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When chasing a minnow, sometimes a trout will "ram" it with his nose to stun it then eat it. Have you ever fished a stream for trout with spinners....see it flash..{hit}...only to discover you hooked it on the outside of the mouth?
You should have been here yesterday.............. Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by [Sir Izaak Walton]
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fishmonger
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/10 23:58:28
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I use black nosed Dace streamers for stocked trout. I have caught double digits in one day, and nearly every one of them was hooked outside the mouth. I actually have seen rainbows chase and take my streamer, only to find them hooked in the cheek. Usually, browns will be hooked in the mouth, the take is not as violent. As for steelheads, their take is not very hard, although I think that at times, they will strike at a fly, and the hook will imbed in the outside of the mouth. It always amazes me that I will sometimes foul hook a steelhead with a size 16 or even an 18 fly. I was on Elk last week, and had to concentrate very hard to not foul hook a fish. Lining, lifting, etc. could have been done on every cast. I landed one fish on an orange Clouser, size 12 Mustad 9672, that inhaled my fly. I had to use forceps to remove it. The fish was returned OK.
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Stillhead
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/11 03:20:26
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No one is questioning whether or not it's possible to have a fish strike you're lure/fly and end up hooking it outside the mouth. It's clear that's possible. I would start to question things, or probably change something if the majority of the fish I was hooking were outside the mouth, there has to be a better way.
What may not be clear to some is that is a King Salmon. Anyone who has salmon fished and witnessed what goes on with salmon "fishers" knows the likelyhood of that fish being lined.
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yungguru 
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/12 00:33:46
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iff yu wannt to lyne samAn
i cann hellp yu
let mee no
ideeitt raAp showed mee howw
ha ha
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KJH807
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/12 01:25:30
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I was in Oregon this past month and they were doing their version .... called corkies
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flyman
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/12 06:54:32
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Scratching my head on this one guys. Clouser or chain beads move on the hook shaft when one does not glue them down. Tying for the salmon river I never glue down my lead or chain eyes . With this being said, you can see the hook inside the black line of the salmons mouth. Now, the line was moved under the fish for composition when they took the photo. This will change actual direction of the fly. THough I am not a member of TU, and do not Know Cathy and Berry. Great photo and glad they printed it!
AL
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FlashDance
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/12 12:42:22
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It is a cool picture, I will give them that.
"with this being said, you can see the hook inside the black line of the salmons mouth."
The eye of the hook is inside the salmon's mouth. The bend and point are on the outside
pointing in at you. Look below the fishes jaw, you can see the tail of the fly.
Overall, it really doesn't matter. The calendar has some very nice photos.
I just found it odd that they closed it with that picture.
It would kind of be like Al Gore preaching to everyone about global warming and needing
to cut down on ozone emissions and then driving around in a big Suburban. Oh wait..
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SmallieKiller
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/15 15:32:43
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Only real problem I see with that picture is, I'm not in it.
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steelheadman28
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/15 15:57:40
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I got the same calender and it took me 5 mins to flip through the pics until i got to that one i was amazed they would put this in a pic. Most fishermen could point this out i showed it to my brother he immediately noticed it . but were used to flies........ BUT THAT STILL DOESNT MAKE IT RIGHT FOR SOMEONE TO PUBLISH THAT!! I never sen them money either. thats a sad pic got mine i think saturday.
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duncsdad
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/15 19:22:00
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TU probabaly bought the calendar from a fund raising vendor with the instructions -- provide a fishing calendar with trout/salmon/steelhead photos at this cost. They more than likely saw it well after the fact.
Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
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frogpoopin
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 08:07:03
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what do ya want to bet, the person who 'cought" that fish swears it hit like a freight train?
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genieman77
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 10:29:08
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I read some of the posts on this thread.
I don't know if the duud linned that fish or not.
I've watched steelies come up to my buggers or steamers and bite them.
I don't about know about ya'll, but I set the hook as soon as I see the fish bite.
There are times that the head of the fly is what was bit and the hook might not be "inside" it's mouth.
(especially with long hook buggers/streamers)
The resulting hook set might put the hook on the outside of it's lip.
That sure ain't lining in my definition.
And I'll be a monkeys uncle if it is.
when i see a fish chase down and bite my fly, I'm setting the hook.
Whether that hook pierces the inside or out, I'll call it fair hooked fish every time if it's anywhere on the lip
A picture might tell a thousand words, but that pic doesn't "prove" that fish was lined
..L.T.A.
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flyman
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 11:58:52
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ok guys lined or not?
post edited by flyman - 2007/10/17 12:04:19
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Bigguyron
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 12:58:26
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I could be wrong but isnt it true that while fishing for kings its legal to snag them? I was recently told about locals in new york using sponges on their hooks so they can see the bait near their mouths to line them. Ive got the calander as well and Ive looked at it under every lighting. Unless you are the one who took the picture or caught the fish WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE. I see everyone saying about people whining so why dont you all who think its "lined" take the advice out of your own book. shut up and quit whining
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elephanthead
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 13:07:04
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Bughawk
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 13:55:35
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Flyman, Is that picture going to be on the final exam????  It is hard for me to tell, but my guess is that it is not.
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FlashDance
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RE: What do you see/thing about this picture
2007/10/17 17:30:49
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Bigguyron, whoever told you that about kings in New York is wrong. It is not legal to snag them.
However, do people fish that way? YES. I actually saw people there complaining because the DEC took their
fishing equipment because they were snagging.
Flyman, If they had published that picture, I never would have questioned it. Looking at it, the thought of lining never enters my mine. TU's picture makes me think SNAGGER. Shoot, yours is a lot nicer picture too.
I, personally, don't like snaggers and to me, lining is the same thing. It makes me insane.
I'm not whining, I'm simply stating that it ****es me off. I've spoken up to every person that I've seen fishing
that way. In the past two weeks, it has happened twice. Both individual plead ingorance. One guy replied,
"Isn't that how you fish?" I took the time to correct what he was doing wrong. He caught fish.
The other fellow, wanted to know why all fish were laying in front of me.
"The fish in front of me keep spooking away." I explained to him, "I'm not beating them with my line. You are. You need to change your techinique and they won't spook."
Within a few minutes, this guy was fishing differently, and he too, caught a fish.
We were all beginners once. If you need help, ask. Most guys will help you.
How do you know you need help? If the guys beside you is catching fish after fish and your not catching anything, you probably need help.
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