I agree that some streams need protected, and I have no problem with regulations in this regard. It is the PF&BC's responsibilty to identify such streams, put appropriate regulations in place. The problem I have, is that much of the general public (anglers) assume that because a fishery is native/wild, that it is inherently fragile. This is not always the case. Some need little regulatory protection, some need SOME more, others need strict protections. If you read my earlier response, I said I might fish bait IF "regulations permitted". In this case the folks responsible for putting protections in place have determined that LIMITED protections are needed. That the fishery can sustain, if not SOME harvest, at least the incidental, angler related mortality that bait fishing might cause. If the LeTort needs the strictest of regulations then I have no problem with them. I would be far more supportive of AO, than FFO, though. You will never convince me that a guy using jigs, small lures, or spoons is going to harm more fish than a fly guy. Bait fishermen need not, but I'll agree many will.
 
If you read the authority's objectives, they geared far more to protecting the stream FOR the fish, than they are toward protecting the fish FROM anglers.

After reading this discussion, the only conclusion I can make is to deem the whole river as... Worms Only. Single Barbless Hooks.
This would protect the fishery by keeping down the number of fisherman on the stream and limiting the threat of invasive species.
Of course the fly fishermen might feel excluded . They really shouldn't. All the have to do is change tactics.

At the least, they could make just a section of the stream "Worm Only". Maybe between the bridges from Spruce to Barree.

ORIGINAL: dano

After reading this discussion, the only conclusion I can make is to deem the whole river as... Worms Only. Single Barbless Hooks.
This would protect the fishery by keeping down the number of fisherman on the stream and limiting the threat of invasive species.
Of course the fly fishermen might feel excluded . They really shouldn't. All the have to do is change tactics.

At the least, they could make just a section of the stream "Worm Only". Maybe between the bridges from Spruce to Barree.

 
You mean make the water that runs along the SRC property "worm only"? That would really pizz the beav off.

Thong only section for females.
 
Doc

ORIGINAL: bronzeback2
I actually worry more every time a train goes past coupled with all the industry on the headwaters,one spill kills way more than baitfishing, don't want to lose the bug life again.

 
yep~!

Just to turn the tables a little more.....

The FFO section of Yellow Creek IS the hardest fished section of stream. That short stretch gets fished every single day by more than a few people. On weekends during the spring, there are more people piled into that short stretch than any other section of YC. Each weekend it would remind you of the first day of regular season. FFO sections do at times tend to draw more people to a stretch of water. Why? I think its because of people believing since a section was special enough to exclude some people, the fishing must be the best there. Take the case of the SRC water on the LJ in spruce creek. Once that was opened to the public, TONS of people fish it, because they feel it must be the best water since it was privatized for a while.

I think some people are missing the point here. The little Juniata IS a PUBIC stream. The vast majority of streams are not public. The fight against allowing the river to be private was funded by the commonwealth, the publics money paid for this case. Even making it harder for the public to fish it by making them buy new tackle to do so, is not fair.

The little Juniata Assoc. wants everyone to believe their are dead trout constantly floating downstream from all the bait and spin fisherman on the river. That is not true. I could count on one hand, the number of dead trout I see in the river every year. I can assume that plenty of them have died of natural causes, and not only by a spin fisherman.

Being catch and release only, the river doesnt have the crowd of fisherman who dont know how to handle fish, like stocked streams so often do. Yes, I have seen my share of people that grip fish too tightly or handle them too long, or hold the fish out of the water for too many glamour shots, but the people who do this are just as often fellow fly fisherman, who dont know any better.

Should Bill Anderson or anyone in the little J assoc. be considered an expert or authority on this subject? NO. Remember, this movement is coming from the same guy who said on the spruce creek fly co. forum, that the numbers of green drakes on the Little J has decreased because too many birds were eating them. Anyone who fishes the river enough and knows anything about the green drake knows that their numbers decreased on the river as the amount of silt decreased. I wouldnt consider anyone who makes such an outrageous comment to be an expert on the little J.

ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: S-10

Sooo-- after spending the bait fishermens money to fight Beaver and his special interest group for access to the stream some are suggesting we should replace his group with another special interest group. Some are using the logic that removing bait fishermen would lessen the mortality rate and make for a better C&R stream. Wellll--- Since the Erie tribs are a put and take fishery dependent on yearly stockings and not C&R I guess we should make them bait only to offset the streams some of the fly snobs want to take over for themselves. I carry both and use whatever is hot at the time because my objective is to catch fish not wash flies. I fish with a guy that won't use anything but a fly that he has tied himself even if I am standing beside him outfishing him 10 to one and offer him what I am using. He doesn't try to make me change  or go somewhere else and neither should you. Drake has the right attitude on this one. Next the vintage bamboo rodders will want their own section, don't forget an Orvis section, how about one for #20 and smaller hooks. We all pay for a license and what some are suggesting is exactly what Beaver is doing. My 2 cents

"an Orvis section"

Now that would be funny...a bunch of walking orvis catalogs with their own section of water, wearing the latest pastel colored orvis fishing shirts, getting their wonderline tangled in the trees.

 
But Simms would be okay?
 
Sorry, I just got my CC statement with the jacket on it.

ORIGINAL: duncsdad

ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: S-10

Sooo-- after spending the bait fishermens money to fight Beaver and his special interest group for access to the stream some are suggesting we should replace his group with another special interest group. Some are using the logic that removing bait fishermen would lessen the mortality rate and make for a better C&R stream. Wellll--- Since the Erie tribs are a put and take fishery dependent on yearly stockings and not C&R I guess we should make them bait only to offset the streams some of the fly snobs want to take over for themselves. I carry both and use whatever is hot at the time because my objective is to catch fish not wash flies. I fish with a guy that won't use anything but a fly that he has tied himself even if I am standing beside him outfishing him 10 to one and offer him what I am using. He doesn't try to make me change  or go somewhere else and neither should you. Drake has the right attitude on this one. Next the vintage bamboo rodders will want their own section, don't forget an Orvis section, how about one for #20 and smaller hooks. We all pay for a license and what some are suggesting is exactly what Beaver is doing. My 2 cents

"an Orvis section"

Now that would be funny...a bunch of walking orvis catalogs with their own section of water, wearing the latest pastel colored orvis fishing shirts, getting their wonderline tangled in the trees.

But Simms would be okay?

Sorry, I just got my CC statement with the jacket on it.

 
Simms would be somewhat better....at least their shirts arent pastel colored.
 
If you can make it out sometime to get your moneys worth out of that jacket, let me know.

I agree that having the river org. can be a good thing, but I feel that they are forgeting that having less fisherman able to fish the river means less support. At this point, I cant help but feel one of their original objectives was to make the river ffo. Afterall, Donny Beaver mentioned in the newspapers and on the SRC website, that he worked closely with the little juniata river assoc. to change the regulations. This is a major reason why I would never join the LJRA.
 
More fisherman means more people looking out for the river. Take away people from the river, and you take away watchfull eyes that will report dumping along the river, fish kills, illegal activity, and so on... Us flyfishers cant forget that we arent the only people who are concerned about our waters.
 
There are plenty of fly fisherman who think they are conservationists simply because they are carrying a fly rod, or a TU membership card. These are often the same people who, when they catch suckers, throw them up on the bank, forgetting that suckers are more native than most of the trout they fish for. I guess my point is, some flyfishers, even though they believe they're conservationists, are quite the opposite. If you take away everyone but fly fishers, you'll still have people that grip the fish too tightly, use barbed hooks, and hold fish out of the water too long during glamour shots.
 
Sorry for the rant....

ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: duncsdad

ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: S-10

Sooo-- after spending the bait fishermens money to fight Beaver and his special interest group for access to the stream some are suggesting we should replace his group with another special interest group. Some are using the logic that removing bait fishermen would lessen the mortality rate and make for a better C&R stream. Wellll--- Since the Erie tribs are a put and take fishery dependent on yearly stockings and not C&R I guess we should make them bait only to offset the streams some of the fly snobs want to take over for themselves. I carry both and use whatever is hot at the time because my objective is to catch fish not wash flies. I fish with a guy that won't use anything but a fly that he has tied himself even if I am standing beside him outfishing him 10 to one and offer him what I am using. He doesn't try to make me change  or go somewhere else and neither should you. Drake has the right attitude on this one. Next the vintage bamboo rodders will want their own section, don't forget an Orvis section, how about one for #20 and smaller hooks. We all pay for a license and what some are suggesting is exactly what Beaver is doing. My 2 cents

"an Orvis section"

Now that would be funny...a bunch of walking orvis catalogs with their own section of water, wearing the latest pastel colored orvis fishing shirts, getting their wonderline tangled in the trees.

But Simms would be okay?

Sorry, I just got my CC statement with the jacket on it.

Simms would be somewhat better....at least their shirts arent pastel colored.

If you can make it out sometime to get your moneys worth out of that jacket, let me know.

 
I've been out scouting deer, but I shouldbe done in time for the Grannoms.

"I've been out scouting deer, but I shouldbe done in time for the Grannoms."

NOW THATS FUNNY!

I have been stopping at the Little J 2-3 times per week on the way home from work to check for bugs and have yet to see anyone using any type of tackle in the areas I have checked.

Was he promoting fly fishing only on it Dave??
 
 
I haven't kept up on this too much.  I already have my opinion of Bill, and his actions.
 
 
Shawn,
 
Getting close to the grannoms!!    I'm going to have formerguide come out one morning, so maybe you'll get to meet him finally.

Count me in for Thursday Shawn.