What an opportunistic slimeball JD Vance is. He went from calling trump “americas hitler” and saying that people who voted for him were idiots, to publicly stating we would have played along with trumps plot to steal the 2020 election, to now being his VP pick.

Other than that he’s a pretty boring pick. Doesn’t bring anything to the campaign, but trump doesn’t really need anything from a VP pick right now. All the political headwinds are blowing in his favor.

Also I’m pretty sure the guy that got killed shielding his family was a river smallmouth guy. I’m sure I wouldn’t agree with his politics, but judging by his final act of devotion to his family, that guy had more real courage than trump and his entire cabinet could ever dream of. If there is an after life, I hope this guy is pulling 22” smallies for eternity.

Yeah the more I think about Vance - the more he's a head scratcher. 

The guys about as unlikable as Harris. Gutless flip flopper as well, anyone can see and verify it.

I don't know what he adds to Trumps campaign? Sure he's from the Rust Belt but does he really add anything?

Man if Trump picked Gabbard, or Haley this thing would be 100% over. 

 Imo Cheney was the only VP that had power, think he ran the show for Bush. Before that when  Nixon resigned and Ford took over & L.B.J for J.F.K in my lifetime.  
 
 R.F.K.J will receive SS protection now. 

DeadGator401
Two more things - some of you more experienced gun guys can comment on this as you'd have the knowledge. Is it possible for a .223 round (assuming that is what was fired) to just pierce a part of the ear? I'd think it would cause way more damage once it hit something, like an ear, even if it's a soft part. 

Also, JDV is a headscratcher. Feel like if he went moderate, he'd really up the chances of winning. Guess he's going for the Rust belt type blue collar vote? 
 

A .233, or more correctly, 5.56 NATO, very slight difference in case sizes/configuration, was designed during the Vietnam era to wound, not to kill, with the strategy being a dead soldier can lie on the battlefield until it is over, but a wounded soldier takes 5 people, who are no longer engaged in the fight, to remove them.

Now, that is not to say that if hit in the right place, like the head, it will not effectively kill, but a rock will do that. That is why most states, even if they permit AR type rifles for hunting, don’t permit the 5.56 for big game, like deer — they just aren’t that good at it and certainly are nowhere near as “powerful” as the media who had no clue make them out to be.

As someone mentioned, it depends greatly on bullet design how quickly and to what degree they expand or break apart — bullets don’t explode on contact — but rather 1) demonstrate deep penetration with little to no expansion, thus would be a solid point, often referred to as “armor piercing” and is the cheapest ammo available for the 5.56; 2) peel back in a pretty controlled manner to form a mushroom shape, this permits a degree of penetration first before expanding the wound canal for greater damage within the body, often known as “soft point” if the lead core is exposed or “expanding point” if a plastic polymer tip is employed; or to fragment rather quickly after a slight degree of penetration (a few inches of skin/bone/muscle) in order to create multiple wound canals, often known as “hollow points” because of the open cavity at the tip of the bullet which permits flesh to enter and cause the copper bullet jacket to break apart.

None of these would even start to expand on the skin or cartilage of an ear.

Now, that does not mean there’s not a lot of trauma in the immediate area, there is. A very hot, from the expanding gases of burnt powder that propel the bullet, the friction between the lands of the barrel and the bullet, and even the friction of flying through the air, spinning piece of metal traveling at +/- 3,000 feet per second, contacting flesh cause all kinds of damage, particularly in an ear that is very laden with blood vessels (when one of my bird dogs cuts an ear on cover, it looks like a cup of blood got dumped on them). It is also a very long healing process, at least with the dogs.

As for JDV, no idea about him, but if he said things about Trump in the past, which I don’t doubt that he did, there is already precedence for that — “It was just a debate” I believe was how Harris put it when asked how she could be Biden’s VP after calling him a racist over school bussing and then casually dismissing it.

But I’m posting to answer the ballistic question, not discuss politics.

https://nypost.com/2024/07/16/us-news/trump-assassination-attempt-exact-timeline-of-police-failures/

The epicness of the failure of the USSS and local law enforcement unbelievably just increased even more. According to this report, a sniper team was actually inside the building Crooks was on!

Only 2 choices here, and both are astoundingly horrible: complete and utter amateur hour for the Secret Service (and many should resign, all the way up the chain) or, somehow they let this happen. Those are the only two logical explanations at this point.

DeadGator401
Two more things - some of you more experienced gun guys can comment on this as you'd have the knowledge. Is it possible for a .223 round (assuming that is what was fired) to just pierce a part of the ear? I'd think it would cause way more damage once it hit something, like an ear, even if it's a soft part.   

 
 

 
Use to Groundhog hunt a lot May -- August for the first 10 years or so when moved to Butler county. The farmers were overrun with them in their fields and pastures (virgin grounds for hog hunting). The properties were walking distance from home and the land owners let me hunt, fish and release Pheasants on them so was glad to help out.
 
 I used the .257 Roberts, .243 and the 22-250 with heavy barrels & scopes. For the size of critter, the recoil and distance not shooting more than 350 yards or so  (not super high end scopes)  and wind calculations. Mostly used mid 50's grain when the wind wasn't to much of a problem. My buddy was set up for reloading those calibers so kept the costs way down and could change tips/grains and so on. 
 
Hard to believe the difference in what a small tip/point can do from a small hole to not a pretty sight. 
 
 Yeah, the SS has a problem on their hands with the nut jobs out there but always have, but the news and social media has made it a bigger problem.
 
 The Republicans ran that clip to the ground on what Harris said. That was why I didn't think it would be wise for him to be the pick. With the list they have him saying in leaked texts and what was said in public.  Oh well it is what it is.   

Astoundingly stupid reasoning from her. I really can't believe she uttered that excuse but, yep, she did. Can her arse now...
Somehow, that roof where the shooter took aim was more dangerous than the sloped roof with a higher pitch that the sniper protection team was set-up on near the stage to provide overwatch?
They can't even make their lies somewhat believable.

 Maybe all candidates should stop having outside rallies to make everyone safer. Not like in the basement but indoors. A 1/4 mile is nothing for a long gun for a sitting duck.  Makes sense to me and much easier and safer for all.   

Agree some people need to go-Who promoted them in the first place ???
Hey did ya see that one  in a million photo of the bullet trail going past Trumps head, surprised anyone even noticed it,

 No problem DG, Would nice to be young again. Have glaucoma now . Up over 190 Groundhogs shot with a .22 cal. open sights in the yard at camp in the last 4 years. The Vultures and Eagles like me.
 
 Hope MTG can control herself from here on out. The commentators on this video don't know much about guns but get the point across even better if the cal. would actually have the capabilities of exploding. Her and her family filled the car up with explosives plus a 55 gallon drum not shown in this clip. Past time to tone it down from our Gov. employees.
 
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2RdZRORfyY
 
 
 
     

Going back to my original questions:

1) is this now the standard level of security by the USSS?

2) is this the standard level for candidate because it’s not the President?

3) is this the level of security because it was Trump as candidate?

Now that it has been widely reported that there was a credible threat from Iran on Trump and his security was actually INCREASED, question has to be asked:

If increased security permitted a shooter with a rifle within 150 yards, what did security look like before the change?

(Turn on sarcasm font)

Was it Sheriff Andy and Barney (the deputy, not the purple guy)?

(Turn off sarcasm font)

DeadGator401
Good info gun folks - thanks!

To give you a little more perspective in comparison to something you're probably familiar with . . . 
 
This is a .22 lr bullet in comparison to a 1/64 oz trout magnet jig head.  My only black gun is a 12 gauge, so I don't have any .223/5.56 bullets on hand.  
 
Attachments are not available: Download requirements not met Attachments are not available: Download requirements not met
 
 
 The dark gray part is just shy of 1/2 inch long and that's the actual projectile.  A .223 is has a diameter of .003" bigger than this and the projectile is - I think - just shy of 3/4" long.  
 
The shiny part is called the casing, and it holds the gun powder.  I'm not saying you do, but I have seen some people on social media that think that the brass casing is also flying through the air.  It's not.  
 
So the projectile fired from a .223 is roughly 1.5 times the diameter of a 1/64 oz trout magnet jig head and a little shorter.  
 
dardys did an excellent job of explaining what it does downrange.  
 
 
 
 

Here is a better example of a 22 RIM FIRE compared to the .223
https://www.ammoforsale.c...0than%20the%2022%20LR!
 

crappiefisher
Here is a better example of a 22 RIM FIRE compared to the .223
https://www.ammoforsale.c...0than%20the%2022%20LR!
 

Crappie,
Good article that properly compares the two calibers.   
 
The "5.56 was designed to wound, not kill", is just a silly myth.  The caliber was primarily created to lighten the carry load and to reduce recoil.