How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread 
genieman77
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How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
Flyrod guys foul more fish than baitchuckers ..'least that's been my observations over the years I know they line more fish ... Fact is, anyone with an ounce of skill can put a streamer or bugger in a fishes mouth on these tiny clear Pa tribs. On a tough bite day, I know damwell some of you are "force feeding" .Don't lie but that's a whole'nother thread though...and truth is, I couldn't kare less if you get a fish to yawn I'm talking about the guys that don't know WHY they're fouling fish . and some don't even know they're fouling fish (the "20 hook-up, but only 3 landed" guys/reports) I fished the boom time and drug, drifted and pulled all manner junk through holes and runs literally black with fish....and rarely fouled . Reason? I learned early on what was causing my foul hook ups weight placement, length of dropper rig and/or which fly on top. and more importantly, how the water UNDER the surface moves One rig will be a swirling mass of hooks and shot to entangle and impale any/every fish. while another just kind of rolls/skips/bounces and floats over/around and thru them are YOU and unwitting foul hooker??  OK, I'm done being an [sm=****.gif] gotta go get something productive done all comments welcome ...and I don't even kare if they're off topic just make 'em interesting ...and not boringzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,un'K?? ..L.T.A.
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 12:28:13
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guys with fly rods constantly snag and lift fish.... whether it is intentional or not... they snag A LOT.... their famous quote "oh it was wrapped up" ... yeah ok.. it was wrapped because one hook in the a.. and the other in the fin...
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johnthefisherman
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 12:31:00
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And I haven't even taken my giant articulated streamers up there yet..
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 12:32:51
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exposed hooks on the fly so its gonna happen but they
"set the hook" so much too.... they think they get a hit every drift
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BorgCollective
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 12:49:43
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We fowl hookd a sheephed one time
rite in the bum hole
took forrever to git it to the boat
Yes, we are still here! 
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Divemaster
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 13:02:23
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I rarely foul hook fish fly fishing, maybe 1/20 steelhead is hooked in the caudal peduncle, pelvic fin, etc. But I sure prefer that 5% foul hook rate that I can break off very quickly to the 50% swallow the hook rate I used to get when I bait fished for trout that causes severe internal harm. If you're a baiter and you barely have fish swallow the hook, then that's awesome and obviously you're doing something right that I've never been able to do with bait, but that's been my experience and I find fly fishing much less harmful and more enjoyable (in MY PERSONAL experience, but to each his own opinion). Don't get me started on intentional snaggers though, zero respect for those guys as an angler, might as well just net fish at that point.
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 14:04:47
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Divemaster
I rarely foul hook fish fly fishing, maybe 1/20 steelhead is hooked in the caudal peduncle, pelvic fin, etc. But I sure prefer that 5% foul hook rate that I can break off very quickly to the 50% swallow the hook rate I used to get when I bait fished for trout that causes severe internal harm. If you're a baiter and you barely have fish swallow the hook, then that's awesome and obviously you're doing something right that I've never been able to do with bait, but that's been my experience and I find fly fishing much less harmful and more enjoyable (in MY PERSONAL experience, but to each his own opinion). Don't get me started on intentional snaggers though, zero respect for those guys as an angler, might as well just net fish at that point.
I have never had a problem with fish swallowing the hook.... of course everyone has that one fish here and there that they wait to long to set the hook or the fish engulfs the presentation... but i cant recall an instance when a steelhead swallowed the hook... borg..... lolol
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Mountian Man
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 14:12:10
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Divemaster
I rarely foul hook fish fly fishing, maybe 1/20 steelhead is hooked in the caudal peduncle, pelvic fin, etc. But I sure prefer that 5% foul hook rate that I can break off very quickly to the 50% swallow the hook rate I used to get when I bait fished for trout that causes severe internal harm. If you're a baiter and you barely have fish swallow the hook, then that's awesome and obviously you're doing something right that I've never been able to do with bait, but that's been my experience and I find fly fishing much less harmful and more enjoyable (in MY PERSONAL experience, but to each his own opinion). Don't get me started on intentional snaggers though, zero respect for those guys as an angler, might as well just net fish at that point.
I bait fish trout rarely have a swallower (havent had one this year). Small hooks like 14 under a real sensitive float and striking on the first tap. Always seems to hook them just right on the beak.
Thread Killer Veni Vidi Vici...
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 14:28:30
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Mountian Man
Divemaster
I rarely foul hook fish fly fishing, maybe 1/20 steelhead is hooked in the caudal peduncle, pelvic fin, etc. But I sure prefer that 5% foul hook rate that I can break off very quickly to the 50% swallow the hook rate I used to get when I bait fished for trout that causes severe internal harm. If you're a baiter and you barely have fish swallow the hook, then that's awesome and obviously you're doing something right that I've never been able to do with bait, but that's been my experience and I find fly fishing much less harmful and more enjoyable (in MY PERSONAL experience, but to each his own opinion). Don't get me started on intentional snaggers though, zero respect for those guys as an angler, might as well just net fish at that point.
I bait fish trout rarely have a swallower (havent had one this year). Small hooks like 14 under a real sensitive float and striking on the first tap. Always seems to hook them just right on the beak.
YUP.
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Divemaster
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 14:32:49
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jat1007
Divemaster
I rarely foul hook fish fly fishing, maybe 1/20 steelhead is hooked in the caudal peduncle, pelvic fin, etc. But I sure prefer that 5% foul hook rate that I can break off very quickly to the 50% swallow the hook rate I used to get when I bait fished for trout that causes severe internal harm. If you're a baiter and you barely have fish swallow the hook, then that's awesome and obviously you're doing something right that I've never been able to do with bait, but that's been my experience and I find fly fishing much less harmful and more enjoyable (in MY PERSONAL experience, but to each his own opinion). Don't get me started on intentional snaggers though, zero respect for those guys as an angler, might as well just net fish at that point.
I have never had a problem with fish swallowing the hook.... of course everyone has that one fish here and there that they wait to long to set the hook or the fish engulfs the presentation... but i cant recall an instance when a steelhead swallowed the hook... borg..... lolol
You're a lucky guy then, at least in my eyes. What bait do you usually fish? Most of the time I'm bait fishing is dragging crawlers along the bottom almost like a plastic bass worm (least amount of fish swallowing the hook) or with worms or minnows under a float (most of the swallows I get come from float fishing). Probably just because of the difference in line tension, I'd guess, which is why I prefer to tight line or sight fish whenever I use bait. Sometimes the float just works better though.
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genieman77
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 14:51:03
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Dayum I've had bass get my plastics in the gullet, but can't ever recall a steelie swallow my bait The first 6-8 years all I used was bait. Mostly minnows, sacs, singles and jigs Never had one hooked deeper than the mouth But I am quick on the draw   LTA
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 15:06:34
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Divemaster
jat1007
Divemaster
I rarely foul hook fish fly fishing, maybe 1/20 steelhead is hooked in the caudal peduncle, pelvic fin, etc. But I sure prefer that 5% foul hook rate that I can break off very quickly to the 50% swallow the hook rate I used to get when I bait fished for trout that causes severe internal harm. If you're a baiter and you barely have fish swallow the hook, then that's awesome and obviously you're doing something right that I've never been able to do with bait, but that's been my experience and I find fly fishing much less harmful and more enjoyable (in MY PERSONAL experience, but to each his own opinion). Don't get me started on intentional snaggers though, zero respect for those guys as an angler, might as well just net fish at that point.
I have never had a problem with fish swallowing the hook.... of course everyone has that one fish here and there that they wait to long to set the hook or the fish engulfs the presentation... but i cant recall an instance when a steelhead swallowed the hook... borg..... lolol
You're a lucky guy then, at least in my eyes. What bait do you usually fish? Most of the time I'm bait fishing is dragging crawlers along the bottom almost like a plastic bass worm (least amount of fish swallowing the hook) or with worms or minnows under a float (most of the swallows I get come from float fishing). Probably just because of the difference in line tension, I'd guess, which is why I prefer to tight line or sight fish whenever I use bait. Sometimes the float just works better though.
if im float fishing... minnows, sacs, singles, and for stockies... drifting crawlers on a size 10 or 12 hook...
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Porktown
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 15:09:27
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genieman77
One rig will be a swirling mass of hooks and shot to entangle and impale any/every fish.
Any tips on how to tie this? So I know how to avoid... My best day on the tribs was 20 or so fish at the chutes in about 2 hours, using a #20 sucker spawn. After a while, it was kind of dumb, didn't feel right and moved on. Found out later, that I was lining them... All were in the mouth.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 15:24:46
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I've never had a Steelhead badly hooked by bait in a ton of years of fishing! Seems like 95% are hooked in the corner of the mouth. Talk about foul hooking fish ! I use to remove flies from Steelhead that I caught and released. Flies in the dorsal fins, back , tail , pectoral fins! I kept all the flies I removed on my vest patch just for show and tell....lol This photo below are of all flies I removed from Steelhead only ! The patch on my older vest was almost completely covered solid...... with "Hook UP" flies !  Look close ....maybe one of yours is there ! lol.... I never understood the double tandem fly rig ?? Just looks like a snag rig to me.
post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2016/12/06 15:28:22
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 15:30:33
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nice captain....
just a story... dont know if this is considered a "snagged" fish or not.... i was fishin upper elk with a sac and sz 16 hook i broke a fish off on a ****ty tied knot.... retied and hooked the same fish and landed it.... my new hook was hooked in the eye of the other hook that was in the corner of the fishes mouth.... talk about a coincidence or a good hook set on the other hook haha! both hooks were size 16s...
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 15:36:11
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I think that's a fish story ! lol......just kidding
I've got a few weird fishing stories too, like landing a Steelhead on a tiny bobber it grabbed off the surface .....lol .... no hook either.....stuck in it's jaw !.....had a witness too !
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PooFLinger
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 15:59:33
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I tandem until i find what they want, and i agree the bare hook has almost everything to do with it try fly fishing when theres leaves vs spinning rod when theres leaves.. fly guy is comin up with stuck leaves everytime..
Nowww as for flossing/lining have u non fly guys ever seen trout/steelies holding bottom sipping on nymphs? Get the avonia tavern wing and rib combo. If i drift a nymph or an egg pattern down and he just sips it and its right on the inside of the lip then how is that lining?? They spit nymphs faster than most people can react, so the guy that mastered it is a cheater?
The guys that whip up the end of every cast are dumb.. u dont need to lift up fast to roll cast.. try just raising your rod very subtle until your fly is almost to the surface..sometimes wether you like to admit it or not it just happens though. Victorias secret fashion show had me up late. I land em to get my flies and other peoples flies out. No sense on breaking them off and leaving them stuck with jewelry.
As for saying 3 fish landed 7 hookups etc. i dont count fouls in catches or hookups. ive lost a ton of fish that i have seen fair hooked them lose the mouth hook and catch the dropper in a foul. I like big butts and i cannot lie. U can feel it in the fight its like something lets loose or slips then catches, then the fight of the fish changes. lots of things happen. I didn't understand what i saw other people doing until i actually started fly fishing. Fish wrap them selves in tandems and fight funny. But spinners and fly guys can agree on chicken wings and teets.
Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
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jat1007
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 16:20:45
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CAPTAIN HOOK
I think that's a fish story ! lol......just kidding
I've got a few weird fishing stories too, like landing a Steelhead on a tiny bobber it grabbed off the surface .....lol .... no hook either.....stuck in it's jaw !.....had a witness too !
ive had pike and trout come up and hit my float... never landed one like that tho...
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 16:43:11
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Agree ! lol....You have a unique way to drift your stories across Poof ! Like peanut butter and onion sandwiches .
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PooFLinger
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 17:02:32
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Raised on peanut butter n pickle Sam itches
Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
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PooFLinger
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 17:08:07
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Btw i never have a problem lip hookin bait i can even lip hook with paaawr bait
post edited by fishfashfush - 2016/12/06 17:11:13
Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
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Divemaster
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 17:57:35
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"...Nowww as for flossing/lining have u non fly guys ever seen trout/steelies holding bottom sipping on nymphs? Get the avonia tavern wing and rib combo. If i drift a nymph or an egg pattern down and he just sips it and its right on the inside of the lip then how is that lining?? They spit nymphs faster than most people can react, so the guy that mastered it is a cheater?..."
I'm certainly a fly guy but I can attest to seeing that behavior plenty of times. First time I ever fished the Tribs I was surprised to see so many fish "mouthing" at what appeared to be nothing but what I later learned to be small aquatic inverts and macros. Never thought those shale based creeks would have so much aquatic life in them. I see that behavior all the time on traditional gravel Freestones and especially limestone creeks, but to see it in Erie was "odd" to me.
Best to "match the hatch" when you see them behaving that way. Which most of the time ends up meaning a tiny size 16-20 nymph under an attractor egg haha. Could probably just skip the egg all together and go for a 3 nymph Czech rig and have the most success. I'm a fan of tightlining single and double rigs but using a freeswinging Czech/Polish rig would be even more effective I'd guess.
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fisherofmen376
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 18:07:00
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First time steelhead feeshin...1998. Winter. I never fished in winter before or had waders. Went to Manchester hole with an ultra lite combo. 5 foot rod maybe? Rubber waders two sizes too big, Couldn't hook up even though water was black with fish, fins everywhere. I was cold and miserable. In my head I said "welp, I juss drove all the way upere...and ders alldeese feesh...imma git one." So I tied on a big treble hook spoon and started rippin it. Yep. Snaggr. Eventual sum duud yelled at me. As James usta say..."I'm the most interesting snagger" Didn't come up again till 2004, then started learnin how to actually catch em. I haven't foul hooked a fish with flies or bait in 3 years, and that means about 10-12 trips a year. I ain't a trout gawd, but you eventually get the hang of it and know when to yank and when to chill. And probably there's less foul hookups because less big pods. If yer driftin a tan dumb rig thru eleventy fish, you might occasionally git one in da sahhth mahhth. But in clear water there's no excuse.
post edited by fisherofmen376 - 2016/12/06 18:08:43
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." Matthew 4:19
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PooFLinger
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 18:22:26
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Yes clear water is inexcusable, unless a very active/spooked fish is swimming around wrecklessly and catches your tandem redneck smorgasbord and then your reelin in the saath end of a northbaahn stillhed
Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
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genieman77
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 20:02:18
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Porktown
One rig will be a swirling mass of hooks and shot to entangle and impale any/every fish.
Any tips on how to tie this? So I know how to avoid... None really, Pork . cause it's done "on the fly" (no pun intended) It's all situational with lots of difference variables . Hole, run , trough, flow rates , back eddies/seams , etc all effect what, if any changes are needed split shot placement , depth in water column , manipulating the drift via mending, etc were all part of my tactics to minimize foul . I could take you to some of the holes I fished regular back in the day and foul fish on demand . make another drift thru the same spot with adjustments subtle enough you might not even notice and pass thru or get a legit take My best day on the tribs was 20 or so fish at the chutes in about 2 hours, using a #20 sucker spawn. After a while, it was kind of dumb, didn't feel right and moved on. Found out later, that I was lining them... All were in the mouth.
How did you determine you were lining them if all were inside the mouth? fish in fast can be very aggressive to the right color, shape or size one of favorite memories was at Streusion flats Elk casting to some fish in fast pocket water, I was having NO success. So i'm changing flies every 15-20 drifts trying to scrounge up a bite. The small bunny bugger turned 'em on "right now" ..and every two or three drifts was a fish on there were only a dozen or so fish there, so it didn't last long, but was fast and furious for an hour or more . I'm sure I caught some twice too ..L.T.A.
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Big Tuna
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 20:26:47
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Definition of lining,making repeated cast letting the line drift into the mouth of a steelhead,them making a hook setting motion,pretending to get a hit. The weighed bead fly,steamer,or nymph will be in the fishes mouth every time,BUT the hook is on the outside not the inside. Never had a problem hooking steelhead deep,smolts are another thing,if they where there I was not. Watched guys just having a ball catching them one after another only to see many doing donuts sinking to bottom.
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genieman77
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 20:47:26
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fisherofmen376
Yep. Snaggr.
I'd venture a guess MOST have been there/done that at least a time or two in their first frustrated year or three he11, I'll admit to swinging junk into a steelies face in my early years...some were legit takes, as I saw them slide left or right to take....many more were dubious at best though  ..L.T.A.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 21:37:31
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I use to go to NY steady for many years . Fished many a creek and river and watched some of the best lifters around holding that fly rod in hand. One thing I seen fairly common was the bright colored fly they would use. White , chartreuse, hot pink seemed to be top choice. For years I just thought it was the bright colors that attracted the strike.( and it does at times )
As I slowly learned it was the bright color that made it much easier to see and place drift that hook close to the mouth of that staging fish!
True story.....
A guy fishing across from me one day on a NY creek foul hooked 4 nice Browns in a row. His buddy fishing downstream hollered up " hey Joe what they hitting on " ? He hollered back "their crushing this white Woolybugger " ! Dah ?
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nerka
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/06 22:14:54
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agree totally i in my years of fishing jigs under a float for erie steel have rarely hooked fish in the body...25 yrs of that method even when runs pools etc were black with fish it was rare for me look at how the jig rides in the water colum under the float strait no feet or yards of free moving line to tangle up on fins gill covers etc...... i truly beleive tanden flies under our packed like sardines erie steel get more fouls by far ...even with less concentrated fish like we have now the tandem rigs still foul lots of steel ...thanks genie for opening up this farce of a angling method.. 
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Porktown
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Re: How 'bout a good ole foul hook thread
2016/12/07 09:53:41
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I'm pretty sure what I did, was referred to as "lifting", not lining. At least that is what was explained to me on these boards after. Basically, the "fly" (if 1/2" if yarn bunched up on a hook a fly?) was so small, that the fish didn't even notice it was going in their mouth, in current that strong. It was easy to detect, as the fly line just stopped/stalled, no float needed, lift the rod and fish on... Like said, it was fun for the first few, then a bell went off in my head. "You've been steelhead fishing for years, when have you ever caught 10 fish, yet in 1/2 hour"... I fought the demons for a little while, then my conscience couldn't take it any longer and moved on. Maybe they were legit fish? I've had a few other "banner days", maybe 10 landed, banner for me. But those days, I saw fish going after my offerings. With the current and being a little stained, I couldn't see the fish that day. So, kind of doubted myself. Fishing is fun, when it stopped being fun and questioning my own ethics, I moved on. Of course, kicking myself 2 hours later, when I wasn't catching fish hand over fist.
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