Helpful ReplySteelhead population on the decline 
H3Fisher
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/21 22:23:48
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I believe its usually 3 year old fish that come in usually + the ones that survive the stringer fest the previous year/s.
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Divemaster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 07:13:18
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bassackwards
tippecanoebassackwards It is honestly a little sad when I think about them trying to run the streams and have 100 people throwing jewelry at them. Why are we seeing such great steelhead fishing in open water, but not in the streams ??
I think you answered your own question.
LOL, I knew I did when I wrote it. Tried to be nice about it being everyone on here usually gets the "panties bunched up" over the steelhead in Erie. I am not opposed to it, but find it odd the open water fishing for them has been great the last few years. I can't remember any other years that were close to the last two or three. I can't believe that the pressure doesn't change their instincts. If instincts tell them to do one thing, then their instincts must be able to tell them something different. The streams are crazy. Also, what year class are in the creeks now ? That isn't sarcasm, just a general question. Do they stay out in open water until their time, or do they all come in every year ? Maybe they just had a few bad class years, and us open water trolling guys have got to reap the rewards of younger class years ?
I hope it gets good in the creeks again this Fall but honestly I'm like you in the fact that I much prefer trolling for them and I'm more hopeful that the OW fishery will remain as good as last year. I love fly fishing and especially high gradient streams like Walnut and Twentymile, but there's just way more people than I can tolerate, fishing should not be a social sport unless you want it to be, or you're in the Perch pack haha. I love the space of my 22' boat in the middle of nothing but open water and then getting to feel a chromer slash at a spoon 100' down only to rocket three feet out of the water within five seconds. I have nothing to compare it to as last year was our first trolling season, but, I caught more Steelhead trolling than any other gamefish. I even caught tons of them trolling for Walleye at 2.0mph!
post edited by Divemaster - 2016/03/22 07:15:16
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bassackwards
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 07:37:51
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Do they do any studies on the lake population, or do they just document the milking and base annual return numbers on the nursery waters ? Now I am interested in what year class I mainly catch out in the main lake. Most we picked up last year were in the 3-4 pound range, other than the one exceptional fish we caught. We also picked up a lot of smolt trolling for smallmouth near the hammermill plant....that was in late April/early May.
It is odd that the populations seem better in Ohio as far as the creeks go, but I also don't recall the pressure being as heavy when I fished Ohio, for example, Conneaut creek or Rocky river.
It is too bad for Erie that the population has a reputation for "declining", but I still know many people who made out good this year. Sometimes I think locals start rumors to drive away tourist as well. Erie has a bit of a chip on it's shoulder when it comes to "their water", from he local river rats to the local charter guys.
It is a shame....Erie has some good water. The smallmouth fishing in May is great, the laker fishing in late April is awesome, and the resident walleye population out of NE harbor is unmatched. The perch fishing is definitely better in Ohio in my opinion.
Thankfully for us boat guys, Erie has a lot more opportunity than just Steelhead.
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Divemaster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 08:05:22
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bassackwards
Do they do any studies on the lake population, or do they just document the milking and base annual return numbers on the nursery waters ? Now I am interested in what year class I mainly catch out in the main lake. Most we picked up last year were in the 3-4 pound range, other than the one exceptional fish we caught. We also picked up a lot of smolt trolling for smallmouth near the hammermill plant....that was in late April/early May. It is odd that the populations seem better in Ohio as far as the creeks go, but I also don't recall the pressure being as heavy when I fished Ohio, for example, Conneaut creek or Rocky river. It is too bad for Erie that the population has a reputation for "declining", but I still know many people who made out good this year. Sometimes I think locals start rumors to drive away tourist as well. Erie has a bit of a chip on it's shoulder when it comes to "their water", from he local river rats to the local charter guys. It is a shame....Erie has some good water. The smallmouth fishing in May is great, the laker fishing in late April is awesome, and the resident walleye population out of NE harbor is unmatched. The perch fishing is definitely better in Ohio in my opinion. Thankfully for us boat guys, Erie has a lot more opportunity than just Steelhead.
I'd be interested to see a study done as well. It'd be nice to know how many 10 pound plus fish are swimming around out in the lake, or maybe even 20 pounders! Our biggest fish was a 9 pounder about 12 miles out last year but I'm sure there's fish bigger than that lurking around.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 12:39:31
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So that's it........I think you guys figured the problem, all the boats are catching them and tossing em in the cooler so they never make it into the creeks ! 300 boats X's two Steelhead per boat, per day, each weekend = 1200 Steelhead gone every weekend ! And guys worry about stringers on shore ? I know all the boats toss them back in.......LOL
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Divemaster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 13:19:18
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CAPTAIN HOOK
So that's it........I think you guys figured the problem, all the boats are catching them and tossing em in the cooler so they never make it into the creeks ! 300 boats X's two Steelhead per boat, per day, each weekend = 1200 Steelhead gone every weekend ! And guys worry about stringers on shore ? I know all the boats toss them back in.......LOL
Woah, woah, woah there Captain, don't bunch all of us boaters in with the catch 'em & box 'em people LOL. I only kept two Steelhead last year and discovered I didn't much like the taste of them so all of them I catch this year are going back in head first off the stern. Two Steelhead per boat is also a bit low, I know some guys have been getting 15 or even 20 fish in a day. Our highest was 4/day last year but that was just using 2 rods, can't wait to see what 6 rods will yield this season! This is probably just p****** off the the stream guys at this point so I'll stop before there are riots of shore fishermen at trout run throwing cans and bottles at nearshore trollers :).
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 13:44:43
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See, I was being conservative on my boat catch numbers but you cleared it up even more! Now the shore fishermen will be letting the air out of your trailers while your at sea.....LOL
Speaking of tossing stuff at boats, that happened to us up on Ontario Lake one night. My friend I was with was trolling close to shore for Salmon at night , and I warned him we were getting a little to close to the pier fishermen! Wham !.....beer bottle to the side of the boat. Hard to figure who at night with 30 plus people on the pier. Needless to say he listened to me the rest of the night and stayed far away.
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Divemaster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/22 14:30:09
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CAPTAIN HOOK
See, I was being conservative on my boat catch numbers but you cleared it up even more! Now the shore fishermen will be letting the air out of your trailers while your at sea.....LOL Speaking of tossing stuff at boats, that happened to us up on Ontario Lake one night. My friend I was with was trolling close to shore for Salmon at night , and I warned him we were getting a little to close to the pier fishermen! Wham !.....beer bottle to the side of the boat. Hard to figure who at night with 30 plus people on the pier. Needless to say he listened to me the rest of the night and stayed far away.
Well, judging by the object thrown I'm guessing they were drunk :). That's terrible though, the same happened to us going through the channel in PIB this summer only it was a small rock instead that hit the windshield, regardless of doing no damage my dad still went off on the guy for a good few minutes until he went back to his car and left LOL.
post edited by Divemaster - 2016/03/22 14:31:22
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bassackwards
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/23 06:42:20
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No steelhead in the box for me....can't stand the taste of the slimy bastards. Some people consider drum and white bass "junk" in lake Erie, but I consider pellet heads junk as well. However, like most species of fish that get on my boat, I have ZERO tolerance for hurting them if they are not getting boxed. I don't allow beating sheep-head in the head, punting white bass, or over-fighting the steel. Catch and release means they actually have to swim off.
I would rather keep a drum over a pellet-head. In fact, drum on the grill is pretty good, and sometimes you just can't get them back swimming after the long fight. They go in the box.
Pellet heads are fun to catch in open water, but they seem to roam with the walleye and compete for the lure. When you have 7 rods down shooting for walleye, and you get a pellet head, it can be a pain. They are a strong fish and can sure wreck your spread.
As far as shore fisherman and the constant battle with boaters, respect goes a long way. It took me years to get a boat big enough to tackle lake Erie, so I have sat on the shoreline just the same as everyone else. Although, places like Walnut are a "boat launch", you have to give the right away to the boat. It isn't a law made by the guy in the boat, it is made by the government. That's it.....blame Obama. Or wait, was it Bush ?
Regardless, I don't think the population of pellets is getting slimmer, I think the fish are getting smarter. However, if someone wants to place blame for the decline (if it is true), probably start looking at the stream fishermen over blaming the PFBC. You can tell me that 99 guys in a bathtub doesn't push the fish back out of the streams.
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freshwaterdrumR
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/23 13:40:08
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Maybe too many steelhead are getting gut hooked and released by the powerbait fishermen before the season opens???
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ICE NUT
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/24 14:23:01
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I still cant understand why anyone wants to sit on the wall or in a little puddle of water less than a foot deep where they can see the fish with 35 other people standing shoulder to shoulder. We troll the lake off the mouths and do very well no shortage of steel out there sometimes there stacked up like piles of cordwood!!! when a steelhead is hooked its a Chinese fire drill it has the whole lake to run in not like in the Manchester hole ect. Many times we lose him cause it takes a good while to get him in they really can put up a battle. Oh yea we kept 2 steel to be smoked and realeased all others .they really taste nasty
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FishinGuy
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/24 15:29:20
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ICE NUT
I still cant understand why anyone wants to sit on the wall or in a little puddle of water less than a foot deep where they can see the fish with 35 other people standing shoulder to shoulder. We troll the lake off the mouths and do very well no shortage of steel out there sometimes there stacked up like piles of cordwood!!! when a steelhead is hooked its a Chinese fire drill it has the whole lake to run in not like in the Manchester hole ect. Many times we lose him cause it takes a good while to get him in they really can put up a battle. Oh yea we kept 2 steel to be smoked and realeased all others .they really taste nasty
Some people don't know why anyone would want to troll for anything at all. Some people don't have boats. Some people enjoy sight fishing.
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fisherofmen376
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/24 17:03:31
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Yep^
If I'm on a meat run trolling is great. But not being able to really fight the fish, feel it hit, etc, is not my idea of fun. I don't like sitting there waiting for the rig, just staring at it. That's just not my thing-and neither is combat bathtub feeshin. But not all steelhead waters are like that. To each their own-one ain't better than the other. I love catching steel at the mouths where they have room to really take off and are always fresh. And I also like turtles.
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." Matthew 4:19
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/24 18:55:02
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To each his own, whether you shore fish or lake fish. Both require certain skills to catch fish steady. Combat fishing shoulder to shoulder, I feel is basically for semi beginners and novice fishermen. I'm not knocking them I was there many years ago too! It can be fun, but total chaos is usually the normal. Catching fish steady in clear water conditions requires utmost fishing skills that requires many hours of experience that many fishermen aren't willing to put in. Trolling also requires boat skills that also take years of perfecting. I always considered trolling more of a group fishing experience, and creek fishing more of a one on one thing. Both have their good days and bad ones.
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Divemaster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/24 20:14:10
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CAPTAIN HOOK
To each his own, whether you shore fish or lake fish. Both require certain skills to catch fish steady. Combat fishing shoulder to shoulder, I feel is basically for semi beginners and novice fishermen. I'm not knocking them I was there many years ago too! It can be fun, but total chaos is usually the normal. Catching fish steady in clear water conditions requires utmost fishing skills that requires many hours of experience that many fishermen aren't willing to put in. Trolling also requires boat skills that also take years of perfecting. I always considered trolling more of a group fishing experience, and creek fishing more of a one on one thing. Both have their good days and bad ones.
Yup, I love both stream and open water fishing, I'm just not a fan of combat fishing. What I love are wild Brook Trout (or even Browns and Rainbows) streams where the water is only about five feet across and rarely more than a foot deep with overhead foliage so thick you can't even consider back casting a dry fly. Oh yeah, and you very rarely see another person all day even after hiking miles of stream. At the same time, I love trolling because it gets you away from people and you don't get frustrated when the fish aren't biting like you do at Manchester hole when you can clearly see them two feet in front of your feet LOL. Also, anyone who says you don't fight the fish trolling I'm guessing either hasn't done it or hasn't hooked up with a decent fish, or possibly has only caught walleye which I will agree don't fight that hard when trolling. Steelhead in particular can wreck entire spreads because they run in every direction including out of the water and don't stop peeling drag off your reel until they say they're stopping. It's true that you don't get to feel the hit for the majority of the time, but with such a hard fighting fish, the hit isn't what I'm concerned about, it's the fight! In addition to steelhead, there's also my favorite fish: the Lake Trout. They don't jump, they don't run around like maniacs, and they don't peel out line fast, but they're by far the toughest brutes in the lake. As soon as you hook up with a 30" fish you have to jam the rod below your rib cage just to stop it from taking it out of your hand and they will refuse even budge off the bottom whatsoever until they feel like it which normally takes a good few minutes by which point you're already tired from trying to hold on to a fish that feels like a small shark. And like I said, they don't pull out line fast but they will pull out a lot of it when they take their slow, powerful, diving runs. Now I'm getting myself pumped for Laker season! Only two more weeks :D. Just my thoughts on the subject.
post edited by Divemaster - 2016/03/24 20:16:52
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bassackwards
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/28 12:32:56
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Some people don't know why anyone would want to troll for anything at all. Some people don't have boats. Some people enjoy sight fishing.
Some people with boats understand that not everyone has a boat, and graciously opens up seats on their boats to take out people without boats. Some people have never trolled, but have a negative viewpoint on it. But, most guys with and without boats have fished the creeks and some of those people decide it's not for them.
I look forward every year to taking a non-troller out with me. They have no idea how much work it is, and how technical it is. They think you just drive around pulling lures, when in reality every piece of the program needs to be right. Speed, depth, lure type, color and methods are just a few of the factors that make a good day on the water. I spend 1/2 of my day with my head in the trolling book trying to figure out a pattern. I run 8 rods. Two rigger rods, 4 divers in the rear, and another two off the bow. I run a combo of the riggers, small boards and divers. Talk about a handful !! Expecially when you get that Steelhead flying over 3 or 4 of your lines.
I can't knock Steelhead though, easy to find and easy to catch once they settle in their yearly habits. We fish Ontario a lot and I love fishing in 500+ FOW in august and catching them on long lines in the top 30 foot of the water column.
Divemaster, you are correct. Lakers are the most under-rated fish in Erie IMO. A 10 pound laker can be compared to a 35 pound flathead catfish as far as a fight. Trolling for walleye doesn't get you a very hard fight, but jig fishing for them or drift fishing gives you a whole new opinion on the strength of a walleye. Most Pellet-heads I catch while trolling put up a good decent fight, but they can't seem to want to stay in the water. They sometimes remind of flying a kite !!
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FishinGuy
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/28 14:12:41
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bassackwards
Some people with boats understand that not everyone has a boat, and graciously opens up seats on their boats to take out people without boats. Some people have never trolled, but have a negative viewpoint on it. But, most guys with and without boats have fished the creeks and some of those people decide it's not for them. I look forward every year to taking a non-troller out with me. They have no idea how much work it is, and how technical it is. They think you just drive around pulling lures, when in reality every piece of the program needs to be right. Speed, depth, lure type, color and methods are just a few of the factors that make a good day on the water. I spend 1/2 of my day with my head in the trolling book trying to figure out a pattern. I run 8 rods. Two rigger rods, 4 divers in the rear, and another two off the bow. I run a combo of the riggers, small boards and divers. Talk about a handful !! Expecially when you get that Steelhead flying over 3 or 4 of your lines.
You don't gotta explain it to me. I have a boat. And I grew up trolling erie.
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genieman77
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/28 18:20:10
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bassackwards
It is odd that the populations seem better in Ohio as far as the creeks go, but I also don't recall the pressure being as heavy when I fished Ohio, for example, Conneaut creek or Rocky river.
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donno about all that, Brother i know nothing about the lake or mouths But there's never been more fish in Ohio creeks compared to PA Ohio has never had as many fish as PA (we don't stock as many) ..and the creeks are larger, wider and deeper to boot The fish are generally larger, but has never had as many as PA ........................................................................................................................................................ The numbers have been down in Ohio too The decline time line mirrors PA's as well...the noticeable decline started in the late '00s in BOTH states This year (like PA's) is the worst yet I don't believe it has a thing to do with the weather either...fished too many years in all the patterns from nino to nina to drought to deluge ..I know it's not weather related . It's easy to predict the runs by mid Sept believe it not..regardless of wet, dry, warm or cold Sept The pattern is very consistent can't say what's caused the decline in the creeks ..but it's most certainly happened ..and BEEN happening since about '07-'08 anyone that suggests otherwise hasn't been chasing steel for 10-20 years .... or is clueless adapt to the "new norm" and enjoy ...or not ..L.T.A.
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workcanwait....
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/29 10:21:45
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Have you guys seen pics of the fish being caught in NY SR small skinny fish.
I still think its weather related for the most part but other factors have added up to make this year the worst I have seen.
I have not been out for steel in weeks and will not go back out until next fall...I usually fish right up to the trout opener,also cancelled plans to head to SRNY for steel going to do a walleye trip instead.
Is what it is ...WCW
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chartist
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/29 19:14:19
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☄ Helpfulby crappiefisher 2016/03/29 20:38:00
I use to fish Erie. Now when I get to Erie I think, only 4 more hours till the Salmon River, the best river on the great lakes. Erie is a complete mess, a series of ditches that run dry. It's a snagger's paradise. The Salmon River is fantastic although it gets hammered too. But no one is posting their land and access is not hard, compared to Elk and others. PA is just not worth it.
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workcanwait....
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/29 20:31:04
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Lands getting posted on SRNY but NYDEC did do it right keeping most of it open...I knew you would come out of the shadows. School House to Ellis is about to change I think not sure... Glass hole... Below town pool... Falls above Papermill... And then theres DSR...posted unless you pay-bigger price every year and they make their own rules. SRNY is a GREAT river I agree but posted signs are everywhere now a days just reaction to ignorant people. WCW
post edited by workcanwait.... - 2016/03/30 11:08:52
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tribster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/30 13:05:39
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Now the web cam is down at Uncle Johns not sure why but if the fish aren't there then the money is not as well. Hope its not the end of the web cam??? I look at USGS for the most part but like to look at the stream on the cam on slow days at work.
FISH ON,
Brian
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workcanwait....
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/30 14:20:13
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Looks like website is being redesigned...WCW
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davef
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/03/30 15:25:49
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The webcam is still on the Uncle John's site. It's the fourth or fifth item in the menu at the top. To me the current pictures look clearer than they did for the last year or so, but it's a smaller picture that I get.
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chartist
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/04/01 19:24:52
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I will tell you right now, if Ohio stocked their rivers like Erie stocks its, fishing in ERie would disappear...Cleveland has three fantastic rivers and I can't even figure out why they don't stock numbers in the millions.
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tribster
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/04/01 21:30:42
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r3g3
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/04/02 19:42:28
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Have fished the SR in NY for well over 30 years and a few weeks ago sold my second home/camp up there - not because of fewer fish but too many years passing by.
Was getting to be a long trip from Ct every 2 or 3 weeks just for house and lawn care.
Have been reading bout the declining Steel numbers here and there and some references to the SR -believe me- it goes for the SR too- drastic reduction IMHO.
Many years ago this was also the norm for a while. Steel seem to have highs and lows for a variety of arguable reasons and one can only hope to last long enough to see another uptick lol.
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Brad_porter77
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/04/03 08:03:03
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The problem is the internet.!people can access steelhead information a lot easier now. So since information is now accessible more fishermen are coming to Erie.
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r3g3
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/04/03 21:11:47
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Spot on with the internet.
Spots I used to go when it was slow like this many years back there were few if any fishermen.
When Steel again picked up more and more fisher folks started showing up- over a few years.
Now if a report is made its an overnight stampede.
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genieman77
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Re: Steelhead population on the decline
2016/04/04 06:55:53
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The 'net surely increased traffic
and spots with little to no pressure absolutely got overrun the day following a report
But I've never observed strong evidence of repeat spawners.
at best, I'd guessimate 15% repeat spawners ..at best.
Judge for yourself.....when you look at the fish, they're all pretty much cookie cutter size within a pound or so.
the repeat spawers would be 3 pounds bigger, give or take .
It's easy to see, the vast majority of fish have always been the same year class
the increased pressure takes it's toll on the amount of fish in a season (holes can get wiped out quick) but doesn't account for the decline of yearly returns that's happened ...which is WAY more than 15% off
..L.T.A.
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