Shenango Walleye Stockings / Inland Walleye Program (revisited)

I know I'm beating a dead horse but here's the latest response from the Fish Commission. Once again they answer me with the usual justified response . They make it sound like this program is going to be better for the local Shenango fishermen even though less fish are being stocked in the future. Reminds of the same bull you hear at work " We don't want you to work harder, just smarter ! "  Yea right.....!
 
 
 
Here is their response:
 
We have no plans to decrease the stocking of Walleyes in Shenango River Lake.  In fact, beginning in spring of 2014, we doubled our stocking of Walleye fingerlings in Shenango River Lake.  Prior to 2014, the lake had been allocated 10 fingerlings per acre totaling 36,000 fish.  The new Walleye Plan adopted in 2011 by the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission set the minimum stocking level for large reservoirs at 20 fingerlings per acre; therefore, we anticipate stocking 72,000 Walleye fingerlings per year for the foreseeable future.
We evaluate the success of these stockings every September by night electrofishing in the reservoir.  We have done quite well and have met the guidelines in the Walleye Plan in most years.  Unfortunately, because of a production shortfall within our hatcheries in 2015, Shenango River Lake and many other Pennsylvania waters didn’t receive their allocation of Walleye fingerlings.  We plan to continue to stock approximately 72,000 fingerlings per year for Shenango River Lake.
            The situation in the Shenango River below Shenango Dam is a little more complicated. 
            Regarding the statement that we are using the PCB excuse to not stock Walleye, but still stock hatchery Trout in the same area, the difference between stocking adult hatchery Trout and Walleye fingerlings in this section of the river is bio-accumulation.  Adult hatchery Trout are stocked in April, May and October.  They can only survive in this section of river until the cold water release from the bottom of Shenango Dam runs out of cold water, which happens every year around July 15^th.  At that time, hatchery Trout will either die or leave the area.  The maximum residence time in the river for the October fish is only 8 months which is not long enough for them to bio accumulate PCBs in their flesh that would warrant any level of Consumption Advisory. 
            Walleyes, on the other hand, are stocked as one inch fingerlings.  It takes three to four years for them to grow to the minimum harvest size of 15 inches.  Over that time, their diet will consist of insects and fish, all of which will contain some amount of PCBs.  PCBs accumulate in the tissues of the Walleye.  Testing by the Department of Environmental Protection shows that the levels of PCBs in Walleye flesh from the Shenango River warrant a Consumption Advisory under the Great Lakes Protocols. 
            We made the decision that stocking Walleye fingerlings in Shenango River Lake was a better use of this hatchery product compared to the river because of the Consumption Advisory and because of the year ‘round fishery they would provide in the reservoir as compared to a more seasonal fishery in the river.  Also, angler access to Shenango River Lake is much better than it is to the river.   Should water quality improve and hatchery production increase, we can re-visit this issue in the future.
 
My stocking chart below............
 
Shenango Lake got 1800 fingerling Walleye 2015
 
Pymatuning Lake got 293,000 fingerling Walleye 2015 / plus 4 million fry
 
Shenango River got 0 in the past 8 years ! 
 
Maybe it's me, but what would it hurt to put a lousy 3,000 fingerlings in Shenango River every year !
Is that asking too much for all the fishermen who enjoy river fishing over lake fishing ?
Local kids and adults who don't have a car or boat to drive up to or on the lake ?
People who don't ice fish or when ice is too thin ? Never seen this river freeze up (open fishing all year )
2 Bars close by so when the fishing sucks ! ( been full lately ) LOL......I give up....again !
 
 
 

nice pictures
 

Great read guys! Don't give up pursuing answers from The Fish and Boat Commission, I too get upset with some of the excuses we hear concerning area waterways............the reasoning given concerning large fish kills in Pymatuning and Conneaut Lake always has bothered me, and to this day I am sure it was NOT due to some crazy disease, bacteria, or the temperature of the water! It's called carelessness with weed killer..........Anyone who witnessed any of the 3 or 4 fish kills at these bodies of water, I am sure would agree! I am NOT blaming the PSFBC for these tragedies, just hope in the future they can prevent them from ever happening again......

Ya can add Wilhelm into the mix also Loby and I'm afraid I do hold the PSFBC* responsible for the fish kill.  
 
While the aquatic herbicides are not (suppose to be) toxic to fish themselves, the drastic changes to the water chemistry, does weaken the fish and makes them susceptible to attack by disease/bacteria.
 
Last I knew, aquatic plants  provide oxygen, habitat and, keep water temperature cooler.  Without aquatic plants, less dissolved oxygen; no habitat which affects the food chain and survival of new born fry, and fingerling fishes, and; allows the water temperatures to become even warmer which increases the bacteria/disease that attack the stressed fish.
 
When questioned why the weeds are being annihilated with herbicides, we hear the plants are so thick and matted they are chocking the lakes.  When asked why these weeds were never really a problem in the past, we are told these weeds are of a variety that does more harm than good and they are a species capable of reproducing. 
 
In addition, for the aquatic herbicide to work, the plants must be present which means we now have rotting plant material laying at the bottom of the lake no longer producing oxygen but, nasty contaminates not conducive to healthy fish and I hear certain species of algae just love that stuff.  
 
Add to this, fishes weakened by lack of oxygen, water temperature exceeding fish tolerances, no natural habitat, water quality aiding in the growth of bacteria/disease/algae(s) and "estupendo" we have a PSFBC* fishery that won't sustain minimal requirements (set by the PSFBC*) for stocking of certain fish.
 
 
 
*PennStateFishandBoatCommission.  Ever wonder why you see 2 to 3 biologist but, seldom see more then one (if that) law enforcement officer on the water?
 
For the younger generation who today, enjoy our lakes and streams, ya should of seen it 25 years ago.
 
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Brock I don't know much about the fishery at Shenango Lake or on the river but I do know, from the stories I've heard and the pictures you have posted, you have every right to be concerned about the future of the river.  
 
The river is just another waterway/fishery that has become victim to the "Fish Specific Waters" program engineered by the biologist of the PFBC which in my book was brought on, by special interest groups/clubs.  That program was a total flop and was abandoned leaving many of our waters totally destroyed of a once great fishery.  Wilhelm, Shenango River/Reservoir, walleye fishing at Pymie to name a few, have all shown a change for the worse over the past 10 to 20 years.
 
Thank you for taking the time to forward your experience and knowledge to our legislators in hopes of saving our lakes and streams from further corruption. I plan to follow your lead and forward my concerns regarding the lame excuses and bogus reports generated by an agency that sets standards they don't intend to reach regarding the stocking of our waterways.
 
One of the first questions I will ask is why the hell the PFBC, under the direct guidance of John Arway, is doing work of the EPA involving the supposedly highly contaminated Susquehanna River?   There's a story you would find interesting, from the reports of hermaphrodite bass to John Arway being railroaded into office.  
 
I began reading  bogus reports being generated regarding the Susquehanna in the magazine "PA OUTDOORS" about 10 years ago and got so pizzed, I quit buying the paper.  Now what-do-yo-know, we have a SOS program with the project being the "pet" of John Arway.
 
 
I gotta go, my therapist is on the phone.

I wonder if the PFBC folks ever read these posts. I really hope they do

 Sometimes they all (trout) start to die within a hr. or two after gettin' stocked 
 
crappy

interesting response from them.... ive only ever heard of a few people that catch walleye in the lake...where ever a good shore fishing spot is let me know asap! obviously the river the fish are much more accessible especially shore fishing which the majority of fisherman do not have boats to access the lake walleye... i would love to see walleye restocked in the river... it truly was a fun fishery... 
 
just a side note... when everyone knows that the river is no longer stocked not sure why people keep every legal fish they catch every time they go especially when they are as round as a football clearly stuffed with eggs trying to spawn!  the future of the river is laying in peoples trash cans.. i understand a few fish but 6 is an awful lot for something that is eaten as a novelty and not a necessity
 
if it was stocked it wouldn't be a problem anyway...

BeenThereDoneThat.
Troutguy, my problem with stocking trout in rivers and streams with other healthy fish populations is the designation of "Approved Trout Waters" that require non-trout seeking anglers (moi) buy a trout stamp.

I understand where you're coming from. I fish Shenango for a lot of stuff besides trout like bass, catfish, walleye, pike, carp, etc.. And I fish for trout at a ton of other places besides Shenango.........so I'm buying a trout stamp every year no matter what. But if you NEVER target trout anywhere, yeah, I'd be bummed about buying a stamp too.
 
If a place can't support trout and is only stocked for the rope 'em up opening day crowd.......yeah, I'm against that. Buhl Park for example. But wait!! It's for the kids!!!! Well, they could manage it for bass and panfish.....which are great for getting kids interested in fishing, and usually don't require stocking(so the PFBC saves money). And if they wanted to hook kids on trout fishing, stock cooler streams that can support trout for longer periods of time and make sections for kids only.
 
At places like Shenango I'm fine with stocking trout because it can support a fine trout fishery from Fall through June. That's a good chunk of the year......not just the opening day rope fest. The only downside is making the strictly non-trout fishermen buy a trout stamp if they want to fish there, but it is what it is.....
 

BeenThereDoneThat.
Easy to abuse this power; certainly is, find a popular section of water heavily fished by anglers not caring to purchase a trout stamp.  Stock it, define it, without notice to the public so, the PSFBC can require a trout stamp to fish there even if the trout are not the fish being targeted by the angler.

I don't think this is all just to get non-trout fishermen to buy trout stamps so the PFBC can bring in extra money. The total cost of trout stamps don't cover the costs of raising and stocking all the trout in the state. Yeah, by adding a new place to the stocking list you force the warmwater fishermen there to buy stamps(the ones that don't already have a stamp), but you also have to raise extra trout to be stocked at that location.....which costs a lot.
 
 

crappiefisher
 Sometimes they all (trout) start to die within a hr. or two after gettin' stocked 

Yup. Especially the first hr. or two after in-season stockings
 
 
I'm really curious to know what percentage of the walleye in the lower Shenango are wild.

I like your post Dardys. The Yough Walleye Association did just that on the Yough Dam. They got permission to stock it themselves because the state didn't think it was worthwhile. They stock (or did) annually.There's a decent population of walleye in the Yough dam now.
 
-Roy

It's still a great Smallmouth fishery over the years. This Fall, the sluice area was loaded with them mostly in the 10-15" range. Down in the stretch your talking no doubt just as good. I took my daughter there a few years ago and she had a blast must have caught over twenty Bass herself. Once again no trophy size but plenty of little scrappers steady. It's a great place for younger kids that want to have fun catching a lot of fish. They will need hip boots or waders to fish the better areas, but above the double bridges can be shore or bank fished mostly on the right side looking up. Late Spring on into Summer is usually best .
 
Time flies by 08 !   She had a blast this day.......

I don't think stocking bass is necessary, except for situations like reintroducing them to a lake that was drained or had a fish kill and that kinda stuff. As we all know there's plenty of places with good wild populations. Shenango obviously one of them!
 
What ever happened to the PFBC's Resource First thing???  The primary focus should be on maintaining and improving our current wild populations, as well as habitat, and then fish stockings. And when it comes to stockings, focus on native species first, and locations where it's worthwhile to stock(the waterway can support the species, angler interest is at a good level, etc.) and the fishery can be managed as a put and grow type fishery. And stockings of non-native species is an added bonus if the funds are available.
 
For trout:
 
If the creek already has trout on it's own.................................................do not waste money stocking it.
If the creek can't support trout any longer than a couple months...............do not waste money stocking it.
If the creek is stocked only for a short rope 'em up gig.............................that's stupid.
If the creek can't support a decent pop. of wild trout, but can support a worthwhile seasonal stocked fishery............stock it.
 
I don't want to see stockings cut at places that can support good stocked fisheries while stockings are NOT cut on wild streams.
 
I don't want to see walleye and other warmwater fish stockings cut at places that need stocked while stockings are NOT cut on wild trout streams.
 
My favorite wild trout stream is stocked with trout......but shouldn't. The Shenango River is no longer stocked with walleye.....but should. Poor use of money. It's not rocket science!!!
 
Besides actually fishing for and catching the fish, there's also one other reason why I like some places to get stocked with trout. Us humans may not like the taste of rubber rainbows, but some of our fishy friends with teeth might   It's an added food source! For real!
 
One thing I find funny is everyone is all worried about the smallmouth bass in the Susquehanna and we have to save them, but smallmouths aren't even native to the Susquehanna watershed!!!! In PA they're only native to the Ohio River and Lake Erie systems. BUT, the fact that the smallmouth bass population there.......native or not.......has been declining shows that something is very wrong with the health of the river, and it needs to be figured out and fixed ASAP. It's a big issue
 

Sounds bad ! What's the warning on eating those ? Even holding one ? They stopped our Walleye stocking because of a so called higher PCB content equal to the Lake Erie warnings. Go figure !