gymi03
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/06 20:22:33
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blockhead
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/07 00:33:27
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CAPTAIN HOOK
You got it Bings ! Just some food for thought does anybody know what the stats are for fish returning the following year if they are released ? I think the natural mortality rate is much greater than most people think. I keep very few fish but I don't have a problem with a 3 limit if they are going to die anyway in the near future.
Although all of the studies I've seen were all on west coast steelhead, I've seen where mortality rates were anywhere from 9% to 15% on C&R fish. The rest of this is my own speculation but if mortality is that high on fish that were only caught and released once, Erie fish are doomed (even if only counting the legal hookups). Another interesting thing I saw on the studies is it seems like the mortality often occurs post spawn. Seems like most of the fish make it to spawn although I don't think that really matters in PA tribs since I've always heard that they won't support natural reproduction of steelhead. I guess it's a moot point because I really have no idea if these numbers would look different on the Great Lakes steelhead though. I usually don't put too much stock into steelhead mortality considering if the state stopped stocking them that they would cease to be even if the fishermen disappeared too and that they are here for sport fishing purposes and I guess to also control baitfish populations in the lake (not sure if that still plays into the reasoning at all though). In the meantime I just try to enjoy what is. On the other hand we could always go back to salmon and not worry about mortality rates. I'm fairly certain everyone knows what those numbers look like. 
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Porktown
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/07 20:34:30
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chartist1
Wow how times have changed. Five years ago, when I would mention C&R, the long knives would come out.
C&R has been a hot topic since I started viewing this site in 98 or so. That was a bit more than 5 years ago. I remember a member Egg Sac really changing my view (I was a blind proponent of C&R). Keeping and consuming is more ethical than hooking in mouth dragging around, gill raking, photo opt, flop on shore and booted back in. Even best C&R isn't more ethical than feeding ones family IMO. C&R is basically torture for pleasure. I do it, but don't put myself on a pedestal.
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World Famous
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/07 22:05:11
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No to both ....WF...I eat 1 a year but some people think they are delicious. Better then salmon any day.
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Guest
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/09 19:59:26
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sigh................................it just ain't worth it.
post edited by rap - 2014/12/11 16:48:41
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fisherofmen376
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/09 22:17:46
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I knew rap would chime in after the shatfist!!!!
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." Matthew 4:19
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PooFLinger
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/09 22:20:17
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I personally am for raising the legal size. If there are "big bass lakes" then why cant there be something along those lines for the creeks ? With larger minimum sized areas?
Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
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johnthefisherman
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/10 08:34:05
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Ya gotta catch em before ya can keep em.
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/10 12:00:59
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Like blockhead, I don't think I've seen any studies from around here but from a personal standpoint C&R definitely works. I've caught my fair share of steelhead(and fwiw other species) in PA with obvious hook wounds in the mouth. Also, I lost track of how many non-steelhead trout I have caught and released multiple times............with photos to prove(comparing spot patterns, unique marks, etc..). Catching the same fish out of the same pool a year later is something special.......and that opportunity wouldn't be there if I roped the fish up the first time I caught it.
I see way too many 12-20in jacks get roped up every year. If there's any fish in the tribs that will survive to make another run or two.....it'll be them. IMO it's better to keep big, old, beat up hogs nearing the end of their lives. Release the small and average fish to hopefully run up the streams again.
Another thing to add to the conversation.... According to the PFBC they recently busted a group of three "fishermen" that had illegally taken about 25 steelhead out of Walnut. Kudos to the PFBC for catching them. Big fines too.
That's at least half the amount of fish I saw in the stop sign hole the last time I was there.
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pensfan1
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/10 14:27:44
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rap
hey chart, crawl back under your bridge, you heartless troll.
LMAO @^ 
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wrighter00
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/12 16:47:42
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Here's and article on the potential catastrophe of Catch and Releasing steelhead. The site I linked isn't the first place I read the article, but it is what the one I read and it came up first on Google. More of the C&R steelhead die than you may think. Only way to be that concerned is to leave them alone. The chef in me keeps them, but I don't fish Erie enough. I'm lucky if I catch and keep 3-5 from September through trout season. Their size is the only real factor for me, too. I wouldn't keep x number of trout during trout season to equal the size of one steelhead. Maybe if it was a choked out stocker stream in late July, but you prolly wouldn't find me there. Never would I keep them if I knew there were holdovers that stood a chance to reproduce, but we're talking Erie steel. It would be different if the fry were born in and returned to the same nursery waters upon adulthood as intended, but they are scattered and stocked with no sense of purpose other than human recreation and consumption. http://www.ginkandgasolin...-and-not-even-know-it/
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neaphyte
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/13 15:36:02
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Wow. I haven't been here in ages. Who the heck is still out there from the "haydays"?? I would live to see catch and release. But from rt 20 to south on every Erie Trib. Not sure thats the answer though. How about we start with every one who likes to keep fish, keeps one per trip. And those who feel it necassary to keep a limit, keep only thier legal limit. Let's try using appropriate tackle and releasing fish after treating them gently and helping them revive.
I was only cruising the Fishsites looking for some sensible info on the L Ontario steelhead kills. When I came upon this. Looking at several of the offended and offensive responses I can only think "same old sh-t different day"
By the way I always said all these non'native fish put in a marginal environment would eventually have serious problems.
I hate being right all the time! And after all these years "Their Steel the One"
Chow!
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mike55
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/15 07:54:33
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I am sure the lake is still strong with fish but how do you expect sufficient runs in a creek that can not hold water for more than 1 day? These fish never even have the chance to make strong runs anymore and when a small pod does make it in they are wiped out right away. 3 fish a day per person? 30 pounds of fish. Lol the geniuses at PFBC are finally realizing what we have been bi*ching about for years. Promoting a savings of $1 on annual licenses fees and having no regulations for years on a new brown trout program. This is the logic you are dealing with here. When low and clear (like it is every minute of the day) by December there should still be 4 months worth of runs stacked up in the holes. Just go walk the creeks and try to argue steelhead are in the creeks and not in jimmys freezer. There is a reason people have been complaining for so long and now its no longer a laughed about subject on here. There is a lake with billions of walleye right down stream and yet people still want to fill their stringer with a sports fish more than once or twice a year. Old traditional greed. These fish go through a lot more than people give them credit for. They can survive massive ice melts and a lot more crap than peeople realize. They can absolutely survive a proper catch and release or even a half a** one at best. With all the recent meetings and years of fisherman (who really should be doing the PFBC's jobs for them) telling them there is an issue. I think there will be a limit decrease in the near future. Now if they could just get some more water in these creeks.
post edited by mike55 - 2014/12/15 08:05:03
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Ninja of the Steel
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/15 09:49:55
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Can't agree with the "fish numbers are dwindling" theory, or support any limit reduction. I believe the majority of catch and releasers on here spend more time watching others catch and then get upset about it. I enjoyed much success in Erie this year and even had the privilege of helping 2 fellow anglers land their first rust head, a testament of spot on management by the PFBC, resulting in a "world class" fishery.
Tight Lines!!!
"The images of himself and his line kept disappearing into the rising vapors of the river, which continually circles to the tops of the cliffs where, after becoming a wreath in the wind, they became rays of the sun."
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SteelSlayer77
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/15 10:10:33
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troutguy
IMO it's better to keep big, old, beat up hogs nearing the end of their lives. Release the small and average fish to hopefully run up the streams again.
So you would rather cook up and eat an old beat up hog than rope a nice fresh medium size silver fish? Let me guess, you probably think steelhead doesn't taste very good? lol The three fish limit is perfect in my opinion. I know a couple guys who drive 5+ hours to make a single trip a year to Erie, and some years they might only get a single day of fishing in. They drive a ten hour round trip for the opportunity to fish for a single day, and they usually keep 3. Nothing wrong with that, not everyone lives within an hour of the creeks or can make it out fishing all the time. If someone is going to keep 30+ fish a year and keep 3 on all 10 of their trips, then they are probably going to keep that many no matter what the regulations are. Increasing C&R or lowering limits would have little to no effect on steelhead numbers in general outside of the Walnut project area and 16 mile waterfall. Outside of those two areas I rarely see very many anglers walking out with 3 on a rope.
post edited by SteelSlayer77 - 2014/12/15 10:24:52
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 09:43:47
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SteelSlayer77
troutguy
IMO it's better to keep big, old, beat up hogs nearing the end of their lives. Release the small and average fish to hopefully run up the streams again.
So you would rather cook up and eat an old beat up hog than rope a nice fresh medium size silver fish? Let me guess, you probably think steelhead doesn't taste very good? lol
I rope up neither lol. Too much fun to catch(and release for others, or myself, to catch again), plus I don't like the idea of dragging a fish around on a stringer all day and having to deal with a cooler, etc. Additionally, steelhead don't taste very good  But like I said, for conservation purposes it makes more sense to kill the big old fish instead of the ones that may possibly make another run or two. For eating purposes, not so much.......
post edited by troutguy - 2014/12/16 09:46:44
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SteelSlayer77
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 10:57:21
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☄ Helpfulby Spinners 2015/01/30 00:21:08
troutguy
Too much fun to catch(and release for others, or myself, to catch again), plus I don't like the idea of dragging a fish around on a stringer all day and having to deal with a cooler, etc. Additionally, steelhead don't taste very good
No wonder people think steelhead don't taste very good, they keep old beat up fish and drag them around on a stringer all day before getting them processed and on ice! This is similar to hunters who gut shot or cut into the guts when processing their deer, leave nasty stomach fluids marinate the meat and don't wash it off or skin the animal to let the heat out right away, and then take it to a overcrowded processing facility where it lays around outside all day. Then they think the deer meat has to much of a wild or gamey taste when they get it back! lol Keep a nice medium size silver fish on your way out or near the vehicle only, and get it processed immediately. No need to keep the first fish of the morning and drag it around the rest of the day until you leave! If you do keep the first fish or two, then stop fishing and take care of the thing right away. You can be back on the water fishing within an hour with your filets on ice. I only keep a few fish a year, but always bleed them out and have them fileted and on ice within two hours, then either prepared or frozen within 24hrs. They never have any fishy smell whatsoever when raw or being cooked, if you handle them like this. Everyone I have ever made Erie steelhead for has thought it tastes better and more mild than salmon. I make it fresh on the grill on a cedar plank with a sweet paprika dry rub seasoning, beer battered and fried in oil with homemade tarter, baked in lemon butter stuffed with a piece of crab cake, soup or fish chowder where the fish takes on the flavor of the soup, or of course dry marinated and smoked/cured with some wine, cheese, and crackers at night! Last year at Christmas I took a piece of freshly dry cured steelhead and grated it into cream cheese, rolled into a ball, and coated with almond slivers, It was gone within a half hour of putting it out!
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SteelSlayer77
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 11:12:11
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troutguy
But like I said, for conservation purposes it makes more sense to kill the big old fish instead of the ones that may possibly make another run or two. For eating purposes, not so much.......
I mainly fish Elk most of the time when the water there is fishable and I caught 5+ fish every trip up this year. Got into double digits twice on perfect water days. What exactly are we trying to conserve here? The ability for a monkey to catch 20 or 30+ fish a day using trash found along the stream as bait? It's a put and take fishery, they will stock over a million more next year, so no worries, and no need to keep catching the same beat up fish that reels in like a wet rag by the third or fourth time someone catches them. Reduced fish numbers and reduced anglers is what the Erie tribs need in my opinion to make it a better fishery. I would vote for either increasing the limit or cutting the steelhead stocking in half and devoting the saved steelhead resources to our trout program. Would also be nice if they cut down the number of streams stocked in PA for trout and started stocking more and bigger fish into only the colder streams with the better year round holding properties.
post edited by SteelSlayer77 - 2014/12/16 11:13:25
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SteelSlayer77
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 12:38:08
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H3Fisher
The trout stocking program is nothing more than....
A money Maker... They should invest more in Erie... At least those fish don't get cooked in the streams they get stocked in.
Which is exactly why I recommended stocking less streams and only the streams which stay cold in summer and can support trout all year. No need to be stocking trout into warm water streams that get cleaned out within a week of stocking and can't even support trout year round. If they invest any more into Erie, it should be through legal fees and political lobbying to get a couple of the major Erie tribs or at least Elk deemed navigable. More fish and more people with less access isn't going to solve any of the problems on the tribs.
post edited by SteelSlayer77 - 2014/12/16 12:41:11
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Whitey_Wangster
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 14:36:47
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I remember when you could fish the Manchester hole at night not to long ago. The section below the chutes was half frozen and all you could see were hundreds and hundreds of tails. Walnut is all jacked up, and I know the people like the falls, but there is no way in hell those fish are going anywhere unless that water stays high. Those falls below Manchester definitely need redone. The land owners shouldn't have a say below the bridge. Get the Army Core of Engineers in there and repair those dams so as many fish as possible can make it to at least the horse shoe.
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 15:51:44
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SteelSlayer77, great points about the caring/processing of kept steelhead. If you plan on keeping them, get the fish taken care of right away. When I said I don't think they taste that great I was referring to steelhead in general.......even the fresh ones that are put on ice and filleted right away. Just my opinion though.......I realize people like to eat steelhead. No matter if you have it on the stringer all day or for 5min.........for me I still prefer to release it and not have to worry about getting it filleted, etc. Much easier. But if you like to eat them then you gotta do what ya gotta do..... SteelSlayer77
I mainly fish Elk most of the time when the water there is fishable and I caught 5+ fish every trip up this year. Got into double digits twice on perfect water days. What exactly are we trying to conserve here? The ability for a monkey to catch 20 or 30+ fish a day using trash found along the stream as bait?
It's a put and take fishery, they will stock over a million more next year, so no worries, and no need to keep catching the same beat up fish that reels in like a wet rag by the third or fourth time someone catches them. Reduced fish numbers and reduced anglers is what the Erie tribs need in my opinion to make it a better fishery.
Even though it may not sound like it in my posts, I agree overall, and my experiences are about the same. Speaking for the people who are angry about the declining numbers of fish.........if anglers in general want more fish, yeah, better regs for c&r "could" be a solution. If the goal is to have crazy numbers of fish that every joe shmo can catch then I don't think keeping your limit of 20in jacks every day is going to help the cause. But is more always better?? Like you, I personally would be perfectly fine with less fish........and WAAAYY less people on the streams.
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 15:56:17
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SteelSlayer77
Which is exactly why I recommended stocking less streams and only the streams which stay cold in summer and can support trout all year. No need to be stocking trout into warm water streams that get cleaned out within a week of stocking and can't even support trout year round.
Well, in most cases the streams that can support trout year round already do on their own and should not be stocked. The streams that can't support wild trout but can hold stockies at least through June(and during cool summers all year) should be stocked. I also think the fall stockings should increase.............better to have a fishery from October through June instead of just April/May/June. But that's for a whole 'nuther thread........
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fisherofmen376
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 17:12:27
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Cue the pic of a dead horse being beaten...
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." Matthew 4:19
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 20:12:42
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/16 20:14:09
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It was a no-fishing day for me  But we should definitely revive the thread in February...
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Porktown
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/17 08:15:23
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Ninja of the Steel
I believe the majority of catch and releasers on here spend more time watching others catch and then get upset about it.
troutguy
It was a no-fishing day for me But we should definitely revive the thread in February...
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FishinGuy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/17 11:54:44
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walcat
I feel so sorry for that horse!!!! Like to ask you all a question. What gives you the idea you know more about handling this than the fish commission????????? Merry Xmas to all!!!!
because they're the ones that's say its aok to keep 50- 20+lb flat heads out of the local river, but you can only keep 1 stocked sterile tiger musky and it has to be over 40". Some things change, and Government agencies are always slow to.
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/17 21:40:30
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Porktown
Ninja of the Steel
I believe the majority of catch and releasers on here spend more time watching others catch and then get upset about it.
troutguy
It was a no-fishing day for me But we should definitely revive the thread in February...
Not sure of your point here...........but if it's directed towards me( one of those C&R anglers) I do a crap ton of fishing. Fished hard all day Saturday through Monday(both PA and Ohio)...........and talking to other people I seemed to have the best luck.....so I had no reason to be upset. Couldn't fish yesterday(or today, or tomorrow) but Friday I'm back at it to see if any more freshies came in Can't speak for the other C&R fishermen though.... If I'm off on my assumptions....which is likely...........disregard this post 
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troutguy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/17 21:41:56
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FishinGuy
walcat
I feel so sorry for that horse!!!! Like to ask you all a question. What gives you the idea you know more about handling this than the fish commission????????? Merry Xmas to all!!!!
because they're the ones that's say its aok to keep 50- 20+lb flat heads out of the local river, but you can only keep 1 stocked sterile tiger musky and it has to be over 40". Some things change, and Government agencies are always slow to.
Exactly. At least the flathead part.....
post edited by troutguy - 2014/12/17 21:44:03
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FishinGuy
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Re: Catch & release steel?
2014/12/18 06:23:30
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troutguy
FishinGuy
walcat
I feel so sorry for that horse!!!! Like to ask you all a question. What gives you the idea you know more about handling this than the fish commission????????? Merry Xmas to all!!!!
because they're the ones that's say its aok to keep 50- 20+lb flat heads out of the local river, but you can only keep 1 stocked sterile tiger musky and it has to be over 40". Some things change, and Government agencies are always slow to.
Exactly. At least the flathead part.....
ya, to be clear. I'm not saying they should change musky regs. just a comparison.
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