pikepredator2
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STEELHEAD MORTALITY
During a melt or spring rains I've seen the gauges read over 500 cfs, 1,000, even 2000 cfs; that water is crankin. Has anyone ever seen a study to determine fish mortality rates during these times?
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dakota kid
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/23 07:55:29
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Mortality due to what exactly?
An ice/log jam breaking loose and flowing can grind the fish up like a food processor. Fast water alone won't do much harm to trout as far as I know.
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pafisher
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/23 08:14:24
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Flooded streams can leave fish stranded when they recede in addition to the ice as mentioned by Dakota.
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pikepredator2
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/23 13:38:44
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Mortality due to any fatal factors that occur during the onslaught of a blown creek. just wondered it it's ever been studied.
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dakota kid
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/23 20:58:38
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Unless you know some one that's into cold water scuba, it will be hard to find out for sure.
I've never seen a creek void of fish right after a blowout, so my best guess at a mortality rate is not all of them. I've seen fish with some pretty large gashes in the spring, I assume it was caused by ice flows. For as fragile as people think steelhead are, I'm amazed at the damage they can take and survive. I caught one with no tail once and it was definitely an old injury that had time to heal. It had the appearance of having happened as a fingerling. Personally, I've seen more fish die from being overplayed and/or spending to much time at a photo shoot, than from physical damage. Then again, I'm not into cold water scuba.
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pikepredator2
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/23 23:14:44
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actually got my ice diving certification back in 78 when I was big into diving. gave it up long ago tho.
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KJH807
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 08:56:26
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at 500/1000/2000/10000 cfs.... is the reading on the surface
the water below is much slower and offers travel lanes for fish
yes a section of water can devoid of fish after a highwater event..... because they have pushed through
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SCaveNJ
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 09:05:19
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^ this. Fish will tuck behind rocks and drop to the slower currents. Now in extreme situations where the boulders in the stream start moving, the fish could have some trouble.
I live with fear every day, and sometimes she lets me go fishing.
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D-nymph
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 10:31:44
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I think mortality is probably higher from pinners zipping hens for eggs than high water - just a guess.
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bingsbaits
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 12:16:11
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The Yellow Rope Brigade kill more fish than any high water event.
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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cbeagler
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 13:29:06
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They know where to go and find the slower water. Some get trapped in eddies that recede and then freeze to the bottom.
I was down at Trout Run after the blowout that changed the creek mouth. Talking to one guy down there I learned that 40 or so steelhead got trapped in the old flow--cut off from the lake and from the stream. A couple of fisherman found them and tossed them into the lake since the water was receding. There are still a bunch of dead ones laying there.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 14:05:53
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 How many fish do you think survived this Walnut ice jam ? I'd say none!
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dakota kid
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 17:55:17
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Where there fish in the creek afterward? I bet there was a couple. I'll agree that it doesn't look like anything could survive that, but complete population wipe out isn't the norm when mother nature is concerned. There are rock ledges and other places to hide that have been there for decades Granted there aren't many places to hide from something like that, but there must be some even if they are man made bridge supports. They may even be able to tell it coming. It sounds like a stampede and it shakes the ground. My guess is they get pretty spooked before it gets close enough to start doing damage.
My cousin an I almost got churned up once by an ice jam fishing under the bridge at shorewood. We heard it coming and got out from under the bridge in time, but I still won't fish there during the warm up. The ice flow was taller than we were and would have done us in without a doubt.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 21:34:29
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I'll say this, it's a good thing the Pa. Fish Commission and the 3CU stock every year. I've seen boulders the size of refrigerators pushed hundreds of yards down stream along upper Elk Creek from the following season by ice. If that ice is pushing and building that far upstream any fish holed up along the way down are Goby chum. Once large ice jams form upstream and break up on those shallow longer creeks like Walnut, and Elk it's got to be catastrophic. A few past photos of unfriendly ice flows.  There's the launch straight ahead. Was all water when we launched AM. Niagara ice pushing our boat!  
post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2014/11/24 21:40:18
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dakota kid
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 23:00:45
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It really is impressive how much earth, ice and wood can be moved by the rain. Just look at the gorges that most of our streams flow through. It sure took a lot of earth-moving to make a ditch that big. One day it's a gin clear trickle and a couple days of rain or melt and the flow could roll a dump truck down the creek, break up a log jam that's been there for years, or further slide a huge chunk of old bridge toward the lake.
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troutguy
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/11/24 23:14:20
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CAPTAIN HOOK
There's the launch straight ahead. Was all water when we launched AM.
Niagara ice pushing our boat!
That's some crazy stuff!
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D-nymph
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/12/02 10:10:26
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20 years trib fishing, I've never seen actual evidence of a smashed up/ground up steelhead.
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steelheadjones
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Re: STEELHEAD MORTALITY
2014/12/04 13:39:12
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The greatest two contributors to steelhead mortality concern the smolts, other than the obvious "yellow rope brigade." Ever seen the mouth of elk when the smolts head to the lake in the spring? Looks like a striper blitz. Walleye predation. That's the big one. The other one is the absurd practice of stocking the smolts in the tributaries, especially anywhere near where they put the stocked trout. It has already been PROVEN that imprinting does not occur in these fish by a NYSDEC study by Jim Markham. Put the smolts directly into an open water environment and spread them out. They will run the creeks as all steelhead everywhere do. The second issue is ice jams. Ice jams absolutely kill smolts and adults. Mishandling/mangling of smolts after opening day of trout is another fish killer. All of these issues stem from the total idiotic practice of putting the smolts in the streams.
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