Frustration

As you guys know, I work part time at the bass pro.  This time of year they schedule me alot more than normal because i fish salmon and steel head alot and everyone who works there refers questions and customers to me.  That is all fine and dandy, but the dealing with these customers has become more frustrating.
The thing i hear most often and i bugs me the most is the "they won't bite so you have to snag them" excuse for the act of snagging and feeling good about it.  The one guy i had last night had his two teen age sons and a friend with him and was telling me i am crazy fishing for them.  I eventually said to him that if its ok to snag those fish, in that river, why not go out on the first day of trout around here and yank a cast master through the stocked holes and snag trout....his answer "that wouldn't be legal"
Next guy, over in the salt water section, looking at 10ft surf casting rods....takes the last foot of the rod, tries to bend it into a U and snaps it....frustrated from the word go....but then i try to educate him about why that isn't a good choice and how a noodle rod or fly rod set up would be better...he buys the same surf rod...huge reel and 80 lb braid.
And so it goes on and on and on.....
 

On saturday, with the exception of Uglyfish, some guys in a driftboat throwing plugs, and a few Spey guys, I saw absolutely no one  trying to fish legally. Most were ripping away or attempting to floss with mega-weight, accompanied by the end- of- drift- rip. . Lots standing and looking, waiting to rip. A couple chasing, as they had put the hooks for a brief moment, supposedly, into one lone runner they  trapped against a shallow ledge.
It reminds me of Sioux running buffalo off a cliff or paintings of Neanderthals with spears chasing wooly mammoths. It has as much to do with sport as child abuse and wife beating has to do with football.
I can remember when I went with a bunch of loggers from the daks in the 80's what it was like.  It's a mindset that's fueled by testosterone, adrenaline and alcohol.  That's not always a bad thing, by any means, but the herd mentality of the snaggers is  a hard thing to take for those who really love to fish and see it as a sport to be treated with respect and dignity.  Salmon snagging is more a male bonding, primitive rite.  BB, I can't imagine what you go through working there. Just take comfort in the fact you might influence a few people  a season. Not much of a victory, but a victory nonetheless.

Trev, are you  sure there wasn't a little piece of black estaz on there?
That makes all the difference, you know.

BB seems like you put a post up like this every year.
I can deal with lining and flossing even some outright ripping at the end of a drift.   What I CANNOT STAND is the hunting, chasing, pushing, trapping and blocking. These people are hunting not fishing. Used to rib my friend bad ask him how his hunting trip went. This is especially for the low water tribe. Do people know how pathetic they look chasing one scared fish up and down a small stream only to snag it return it to the water and think they did a great thing.

No need to be sorry. You are passionate about fishing so go with that. One person turned from the dark side is one less snagger. We all need to vent and this is a good place to do it. How many times do I post about some azz hat this or that in the LFZ but I keep going back.

Is lining an acceptable catch? I can definitely see when someone is blatently trying to rip the rod up, but it seems like the lining of the fish is not as frowned upon. Even a lot of the pictures up on here show the fly hooked on the outside of the jaw, which to me would be lined. Is the action of the rod what truly makes the snagger? Would the DEC hit you for having a fly on the outside of the jaw?

dtrobe
Is lining an acceptable catch? I can definitely see when someone is blatently trying to rip the rod up, but it seems like the lining of the fish is not as frowned upon. Even a lot of the pictures up on here show the fly hooked on the outside of the jaw, which to me would be lined. Is the action of the rod what truly makes the snagger? Would the DEC hit you for having a fly on the outside of the jaw?

 
 Snatching, lifting, hooking and use of tip-ups are not angling
 
Fishing means the taking, killing, netting, capturing or withdrawal of fish by any means. This includes every attempt to take fish, plus assisting another person in taking or attempting to take fish.
 
Snatching means taking fish not attracted by bait or artificial lure with hooks, gangs or similar devices whether or not baited. Snagging, lifting, and single hook snagging are types of snatching. Snatching is indicated by repeated or exaggerated jerking motions of the fishing rod
 
Right from the DEC regulation book. You make the call on it.   it all boils down to intent.
 
Jack I have not really talked to him in depth about it. I don't want to drag him down when he is at home unwinding, especially during crazy season.  I have talked  to him only briefly.
Here is my take. Sure they could write 1000 tickets, but it is like speeding. If the cops wrote tickets for everyone speeding no one would get to work, the courts would be mired down and the officers would be in court and not on the river. It's alot of water if you include the Oswego (where the problem is just as bad) and all the tribs. Even with the extra man power you can't be everywhere. Place into that the impact on the economy if folks did not come to fish. Lets just say that the fine for snagging was 5k and it was STRICTLY ENFORCED. What would that do to numbers of people coming in????????  I think their attitude is lets get the blatant law breakers a ticket and kinda let the others go, maybe get one every now and then just to let them know were there.   Like going 74mph on the thruway your breaking the law, but most of the time you won't get pulled over......... unless that cop is having a bad day.............

fichy
On saturday, with the exception of Uglyfish, some guys in a driftboat throwing plugs, and a few Spey guys, I saw absolutely no one  trying to fish legally. Most were ripping away or attempting to floss with mega-weight, accompanied by the end- of- drift- rip. . Lots standing and looking, waiting to rip. A couple chasing, as they had put the hooks for a brief moment, supposedly, into one lone runner they  trapped against a shallow ledge.
It reminds me of Sioux running buffalo off a cliff or paintings of Neanderthals with spears chasing wooly mammoths. It has as much to do with sport as child abuse and wife beating has to do with football.
I can remember when I went with a bunch of loggers from the daks in the 80's what it was like.  It's a mindset that's fueled by testosterone, adrenaline and alcohol.  That's not always a bad thing, by any means, but the herd mentality of the snaggers is  a hard thing to take for those who really love to fish and see it as a sport to be treated with respect and dignity.  Salmon snagging is more a male bonding, primitive rite.  BB, I can't imagine what you go through working there. Just take comfort in the fact you might influence a few people  a season. Not much of a victory, but a victory nonetheless.

A big part of why I wait until mid October and go seeking the smaller (but so much faster) chrome!  If I want to fish earlier, I can got to the Genny.  At least on the Genesee, many of the snaggers are urban poor who are not traveling big distances, and spending the big bucks to inflate their egos.
 
Nicely put, Fichy.
 
L13

I also don't recall any pictures of fish that were lined ( hook on outside ) and in fact don't take any pics of fish I may have lined. Yea it happens but not by intention .
As you read my reply to your weight question it explained how NOT to line fish.
What's with the tip- ups Clint ? You mean I can't uses tip- ups anymore ???
I'm a bad boy too db, didn't know there was a time restraint on beverages but acting like a darn fool is not acceptable , being silly is :)

Here's a tip- instead of lifting the rod tip when it gets partway downstream, which creates a sweep that is a most effective lining method, let the drift continue until it is directly downstream, let it hang a few seconds (steelhead often will hit then)  then strip or reel it in and re-cast. Also, think about trying to keep everything in a straight line drift. There's a reason you are limited to 4' of tippet or distance from your weight. The weight bouncing  on the bottom with your hook drifting way off to the side is asking for a fish to be lined. Some guides make their living on this.  I like to distribute some small shot to get my drift down quick and have a straight line back to the rod tip.  A small shot pinched above the fly/whatever about 18" really helps to get your offering in the zone and keeps the geometry of the drift in favor of the fish.  Pafisher uses a small shot above his flies, and out of the dozens of salmon and steel I've seen him land, I've never seen one outside of the mouth. Most of us are of the no pic if it's snagged school. People can do what they want. DEC has very little effect on stopping them. Myself, I like the challenge of trying to fair hook.