B.T.D.T., good story. your co-op story is right on. 1st thing i did after buying this farm was take DOWN the no tres. signs, ,n, tell neighbors they,re welcome to hunt. now i get a backstrap or 2 every year. also neighbor kid has nose for ,shrooms, so i get a few qts. of them too. life is good. wire

Good stuff all around especially the last post by workcanwait. There needs to be a middle ground that would offer a feasible solution to anglers and landowners. Both sides have a point, but if the politicians have their way the land owners will get the short end of the stick and the situation will be ugly for years to come. After all the same landowners fish amongst us now and belong to the same clubs we do...

Here is my issue with the above -- is the person who paid $20 for their fishing license in order to fish for some of the. 300 or so trout that are stocked a mile from my property going to cover the vet bills for one of my State Champion bird dogs when that dog gets a dropped hook in it; pay for the ACL/MCL surgery and rehab when it gets tangled in broken off fishing line; or pay for the loss of income from stud fees and/or sale of line breed puppies because a dog is hobbled by either of the above and can no longer compete in order to up the value if both?

Or, in order to accommodate that person should I not run MY dogs on MY land that I BOUGHT and PAY taxes on?

And unless the PBFC wants to assure me that none of their pesky pellet heads they stocked over the wild trout, which would not fall under any of these types of regs, ever touches the stream bottom, which they will, and thereby are trespassing, then don't tell me I can't fish there either.

@DarDys........

I feel the pain...... My land is not posted and I am not wanting to do so but, may have to post a portion . I have beaver ponds along a small stream that boarders 14 acres of my land. Along with the ponds come geese, ducks, beavers, hunters and trappers.

Last fall I had my Weimaraner and Short Hair join me for a walk as I checked the condition of my ladder stands, one of which was right on the boarder of an adjoining property. This particular boundary is designated by a cattle fence which so happens to run between two trees less then 3ft apart. The stand is on my side of the fence and I just began to check the bottom brace when I heard my Weimy yelp. Somebody had set a jaw trap right at the base of the tree (just 36") on the other side of the fence. The Weimy was now growling, biting at the trap and, trying to pull his foot out. Thankfully I knew how to spring the trap and get my dog free. Least not forget I have a Shorthair bouncing around cause she thinks this is all a game. I knew full well there would be more traps in the area and I was right. After getting the dogs into their kennels I found more traps floating on styrofoam docks in the ponds on my side of the fence. Both of my dogs would be in that water every day if they could.

Here's the real deal.... I can't touch those traps and the trap my dog got caught in; I have to notify the owner of the trap that my dog set his trap off and I had to release my animal. Legally, in PA., the owner of a trap must be present when a trap is opened by someone other than the owner.

So, to post or not to post, this is the question.

@Workcanwait.............

Posted/No Trespassing signs are much cheaper!!

Ok everyone just for he record ...
I like everything nature has to offer good and bad.
I have a lot of pets species should not matter.
Pets are our responsibilities here or there...
Yes a dog may get harmed when walking it thru this world whether steelhead fishermen/wumen are present or NOT!
The situation on PA Erie Lake tribs is unique to say the least.
I do not even know where derday' owns land nor do I care walk your dogs at their own risk its a wild and crazy world if you are so worried about their health buy insurance...
 
ELK- WALNUT -AND -20 MILE ...within the high water mark.
up to where ever debate that without me...
Money talks in this world we all know it like it or not and my lil' idea would bring more to the fishery ignoring the problems will just mean it slowly gets worse...
If the answer is do not stock anymore so be it I know how to fish NY and OH too but PA has a chance to make their mark in steelhead alley if they play their cards right...
 

BEEN THERE DUN THAT...DID A STEELHEAD FISHERPERSON SET TRAPS FOR YOUR DOGS HOW IS THIS RELAVANT.
This whole thing is not about state wide waterways just a few ditches...IMO

“If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands that feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”  ~Samual Adams~
 
Strip them of their land! Strip them of their land!
 
 
 
 

Gentlemen,
    I have voiced this opinion here many times.  I agree with DarDys on the right to post property and to restrict access.  My family used to own a small stretch of prime creek in Central PA that was always open.  It was stocked, and we allowed access.  But there was one group (all "family members") who started abusing the privilege.  They parked in lawns, ( it may look like a field but if it's regularly cut to 3" it's a yard) left beer cans and food wrappers and once even had a party on our land.  And one time when asked to leave one of the inbreds tore up the lawn with his 4 W/D truck.  So the land became posted.
      A good solution to all the problem is this:  If you want to post your land, then fine.  Only you or your family members can fish it.  If you turn it into a commercial enterprise then it should be taxed as commercial property, and as commercial property, insurance should be required. 
      I'm all for access, and since I'm 63, I have been fishing the tribs since before many people on here were born.  At one time most of the tribs were open.  But greed, and slob fishermen, ruined the experience.  And, at one time, if you asked politely, much of the posted land could be accessed.  But that has all been changed by said "slob fishermen" demanding access to areas that people don't want them in.  It's one thing to ask.  It's another thing to demand or usurp the privilege.
      Oddly enough, there was a law in the commonwealth, that provided access to all creeks.  But that law was enacted before PA became a state.  It seems that big landowners were closing off the creeks and not allowing settlers (poor people) access to the creeks for drinking water or to water their livestock, or to subsistence fish, or to transport goods by water (the basis of our  "navigable waterways").  And so the commonwealth legislature passed a law that basically read that all people will have access to water for the purpose of drinking and the taking of fisshes.  I don't know if this law was ever carried over to when we became a state but most of the statutes and commonwealth laws were.  Some lawyer could look it up. And settle the case.  And there again the bigger issue is what level of navigation?  Most of the creeks in PA could be accessed by dragging a canoe or floating a small barge on them, even Spruce Creek, and Spring Creek.  That's how the trappers traversed the "wilderness"  and farmers got goods to market.  If a person looks closely to the banks of these creeks "tow trails" where a horse or OX pulling a small boat walked, can still be seen.
        Now that I have fanned the flames of negative opinion, I will retire and observe.
 

ya know, this thread has gone 2 pages ,n, been darn civil , just a bunch of guys throwing their 2 cents out there. no name calling, no insults. just talk. really enjoyed the talk fellas. thank you. wire

I don't fish for steelhead anymore since in the beginning of the circus, it was nice at the very beginning, but it really has went down hill for a lot of reasons. but that being said I don't feel any one should make a profit for fishing over stocked fish they didn't buy and keeping out the people that paid for the stocking. wouldn't this be considered as income ? maybe the state should look into tax returns to see if this income has been reported ,If money passes hands is that not a business ? also maybe the IRS should look into it. taking a mans land rights is not the answer. the PGC has made an artificial fishery with no regards to how far or how big it would get, they made a new fishery in the middle of a highly populated area and you don,t think landowners are not going to resent that when the thousands of idiots local and otherwise descend  upon their property and act like it's theirs.

Dardys  +1
Let's exchange champion bird dog, for beagle. OK, now I feel better. So then, exchange it for anything else that is yours. Lawn, tractors, farm equipment, prize winning daisies, anything. The increase of traffic through your property increases risk for you.  Insurance or not, the burden of added protection should NOT be a necessary levy against the land owner for others using his property.  And darn it, if something you do hurts my dog all the insurance in the world is not going to unhurt it.

a little O.T., but, i wonder how hard it would be for comm. to change stream class. to navigable for small ones such as walnut.

http://fishandboat.com/water/public/faq_public_waters.htm

D-nymph

DarDys


And unless the PBFC wants to assure me that none of their pesky pellet heads they stocked over the wild trout, which would not fall under any of these types of regs, ever touches the stream bottom, which they will, and thereby are trespassing, then don't tell me I can't fish there either.

 
I thought you said that you read & understood the article?  It's now obvious you didn't & you are one of the people I mentioned in my first post.  I suggest reading it.

And if that judge is 'not knowing'.... then that judge depends on the advice of the experts. Bet ya can't guess who the experts are!!