Rotation

Did it a few years back in mid January with my father and three other guys in the middle section of the lfz... you know, the deep trench just below the tree and the flat transitional water below it. I managed to squeeze in with my father and we were hooking up. The three gentleman suggested the rotation gig. We went for it. Techniques differed and varied but it worked well as it was a different presentation offered to the fish that were lying in the area. We all managed to hook a good number of fish on this Sunday morning. The one gentlemen even took a pic of a fat hen I landed and emailed it to me. Now, realize that these guys were pure gentlemen and skilled fishers so the ingredients were just right. Do I think this can always work, NO!!!! I often opt out when it turns in to that. Kenny, his brother, glen... if you guys are following here; it was a pleasure fishing with you guys that day and thanks for emailing the pic glen...

As you said fichy, with tight nit groups it can be achievable...

Since you mention spey casting and frothing... I have to say I don't understand it. Seems as if many folks strive for that ridiculous water peel that does exactly what you say: "froth"... when trying to present a fly, I strive to have as little impact on the water as possible for obvious reasons... it seems many folks are skewed in to peeling the water a little too hard. Another thought, I don't understand these shooting heads for spey casting... I hate the drift they give and they are so thick before the running line section that they are often rough on the water ... traditional 110' wf or dt,'s have always been my choice in floating line...neutral colors like white... the traditional lines I find are lighter on the water and allow your d loop to load half way off the water rather than on it...which prevents that nasty froth...

Rotating , like pass to the left ?
That is fun with friends but I'm not driving anywhere to rotate my outdoor adventures, well maybe tree stands with my kids ..  If things get tight there is enough other stuff to do in NY .. 80' casts make me cringe on the SR..  

r2g2, only been in the lfz for less then 5 years but I know the story well..
If I rolled in (and have) I'd find "my" water and fish it... 

Rt, had bs like that happen to me and my dad back in the middleish 90's. We went down on the north bank just above the bridge in lfz. We saw some rods on the bank and a few guys up from them... so we set ground just below. These guys snarled at us saying their friends had gone to lunch and that was their spot. My father spoke back in a matter of fact manner stating they were out of luck and their spots are taken now since they're not standing in them. As we proceeded to hook some fish, the clown crew reeled up and took their friends rods... I was a mid teens grasshopper so it was all a show for me... but really??? Just like your so called pool captain experience... how can someone assume such superiority??? I mean its only fishing and only a river... and any spot is fair ground. And I agree, fair rotation is few and far in between from actual reality on the salmon river... too much bs.

Tuna... keep your eyes off your darn phone and in the woods before its too dark!!! Lol

Edit: tuna, blast that spike and put some meat in your freezer already!!

Spike lives another day db... Fire burns strong now and aren't we lucky weather wise.... I'm ready for ARTIC !!
Only thing I want to add before bed is that the corwds for steelhead been there in key locations (pre fly zones) for my 35 soooo years.. We are just getting older....

2B and I have tried it, especially with the crew from up in the 'daks back in the days of the bus, but they had a tendency to slide down until they were in the good spots, and then plant, so we went back to "get in there faster, and hold the taking spot".  But the idea that you can hold water while your bud is at lunch, not without paying the big bucks for the new jailhouse resort in my book!  I would definitely be right beside Bright's dad, those guys can rotate on something else!  Next it will be everyone over to the Altmar for a couple of beers and we're taking the water as soon as we come back, if we can still stand up.  Maybe it is time for some letters asking LE to uphold the trespass rules on the zones, if you are in there earlier than legal fishing time you are trespassing.  If everyone arrived at the same time, rotation would seem like the logical and fair way of splitting it up, but when you have someone camping out overnight in a no trespass zone to hold 100 yards of water for the crew from Jersey, it does not work.
 
Apparently, crowding is a big problem on the LL salmon waters in Essex.  From the DEC website:

"Angling Ethics

Courtesy and ethics are increasingly important on popular sections of river, and particularly so where you may be on private property:

• If other anglers are present, rotate the pool. Rotating the pool involves starting at the head of the pool, casting and retrieving, and then taking a step downstream before casting again. Each angler rotates downstream through the pool and returns to the head until it is his/her turn again. The process allows all anglers the opportunity to fish the whole pool.
• Know and obey the fishing regulations. In particular, terminal tackle is carefully regulated during late summer and fall.
• Respect private property or risk losing public access! Many of the best pools are on private property where continued access is absolutely dependent on the landowners' good will. One litterer could potentially eliminate access for everyone, so please consider picking up any trash you find."

 
Of course, these rivers are unweighted flies and baits only, so you don't have one guy knocking them out with an anchor while the next guy is tying a Skagit head into bows around the trees on the other bank. 
I  can see it on well defined pools, with a bench and signage, but for much of the river, not so much. But I'm also not recognizing "your" water if you are on the other side of the river.  And as to Spey fishers, they pretty much all have their craniums parked at the other end of the torso, as the spots where a spey rod is really necessary on the SR are few and far between, and in the higher water, the fish are not out in the middle of the river very often anyway.  I WISH I was in British Columbia, too, but a one hander will cover most anything on the SR, which would be a small stream on the west coast.
 
Just my thoughts, maybe the Genny is not so bad after all.  Certainly easier to pick out the Pa and Ohio cars if you get grief, and let a little air out at the top of the hill!
 
L13

I'm all for sharing water with guys in my group but I too have had bad experiences when I'm alone and out numbered.  Things somehow change when you are the guy holding the hot rod with the hotter fly.  In today's instant communication world I've seen what started out as a three man rotation turn into a gaggle of six or more when emails start flying.  How then do you tell the players without a scorecard? 
I shared a story with Tuna a while back about the WB Ausable.  I patiently watch a guy cast to a pod of rising fish to the point of frustration on his part.  When he finally gave up and left I proceeded to take eight fish in a matter of a half hour.  He later came back upstream and asked what I was using (Light Hendrickson).  By then the hatch had ended and I was content with the afternoons success.  I prefer to wait my turn or find my own water and its my choice who I allow to enter my space.   

Charlie- that's hysterical- hope it sticks-- 'the inmates in the Altmar prison-priceless.

If the inmates from the Altmar prison carry the wrong attitude beyond the fence they might leave Altmar needing dental work,they're not too popular and they have n't even arrived.

hot tuna
I turned in my badge in 2010. Dsr and NYS . ADK's weren't paying it forward and Oswego co was taking its tolls $$$
Now I fish for free and am free to fish when & where I please.
Gotta say , ice don't get near the recognition the SR does .. Spot burn ..

Tuna I just heard it today.....all ice fishing gear is sold out at most outdoor outlets because of "someone" promoting the ice fishing on the internet!Also,all hotels and B&B's,motels,flophouses,camp sites are booked in the Ad region of NY for DEC,JAN and FEB.! Hey,you can rotate holes over the prime spots

Do not know how I feel about rotation.  For me it would depend:
1)   friends I came with or know who I know would let me     YES
2)    guys that came it at the same time as me  and were good folks   MAYBE
3)  I get there at 430am and they get there at 900       PROBABLY NOT
4)    Kid                                                                       Probably
 
Talking about rotation and nice guys.   I went out of my way and netted a fish for a guy Saturday, I had to leave my rock and go 1/2 down to the pines to do it.   He  was so happy he thanked me several times, .    He got out his box and gave me the a fly like he had got the fish on.   This is the second time someone has done this for me and made me feel good.  I haved one the same for some who netted one for me

Check out the article in the new winter issue of the Drake on Steelheading in British Columbia.
 
The way the Canadians have decided to deal with crowding is to charge Americans out of the game entirely.  No Weekend non-resident angling without a guide, and the guide fees are $800 a day now.  Special licenses for each river, along with the regular non resident high priced ticket!  Definitely a game for the rich if not resident.
 
SO, applied to the tribs in New York, a Salmon Stamp, a Brown Trout Stamp, and a Steelhead stamp, Resident x dollars, non-resident 5 x dollars (Remember boys and girls, some of us who live here have been working to get this fishery to where it is for 30+ years now, I've never known an out of stater to spend a lot of time on NYSDEC issues, unless like R2G2, they have become semi-resident, and I would cut slack for property owners.)  Now, since 55% of the Salmon are wild now anyway, cut back hatchery numbers of Kings and put the capacity to steelhead.  Then increase stocking of the other tribs, especially ones where there is a lot of public water. And use the increased revenues to buy more easements or buy land outright on the other tribs that currently don't have access.  If egg taking is an issue, make the SR Catch and release for everything until the hatchery is at capacity.  This would create a lot more capacity on other streams, and the increased runs in many could relieve some of the pressure on the SR.  Otherwise, get used to wearing the pointy tipped elbow pads, and casting in rhythm, determined by the least coordinated person in the run.
 
I also think we need to make it illegal to bring beer into New York from a non deposit state like PA.  I can tell where HT has NOT been fishing because of the presence of Busch cans ( HT ALWAYS takes his out), but it really irks me that they are all no deposit, so even the pickers wont go get them.  If you left your trash around like that in Pennsyltucky, the Encons would find you by finger printing.  You litterbugs are really giving the PA state a bad name.
 
L13

Lucky, they quite well realize the limitations of their water and are trying to line up a fleet at their disposal.  It's hard not to think about that place as a correctional facility, as it looks like one and was more readily adaptable to becoming one. The raised tree beds have hidden gun emplacements.  I imagine they 'll use an SUV to get you back to a loading spot in the Barrel and have your guide waiting with the boat. No rubbing elbows and waiting in line  with riff-raff at the state launch.  They seem to be sparing no expense.  Most of their clientele will be more geared to a guided boat trip, than sliding  in and staring across at the North bank line-up.  By now, they realize the chilly reception they've received is going to reach across the river with snagged Spey lines and curses and insults  hurled at the clients.  That side of the river may remain very quiet.

Lucky, great points... but on one end of the spectrum it is driving the whole fishery to a state mandated "pay to play"... I like it though... the state would do nothing but benefit from it as well as the fishery... I almost consider myself retired from conquering the anadromous strains of the mighty salmon due to current crowding issues and sheer neglect of everything and anything under the sun by many of its fishers... if global warming killed them off I'd be fine with the smallies most likely.

Sometimes a little common decency goes  a much  longer ways than lists of rules and fancy azz imposed  practices like rotation. Rotation, of course, only works for one side of a river. I've shared water with guys across the river by timing drifts. They cast, I wait a few seconds then I cast. When it's mutually agreed upon, it generally goes flawlessly. Most of the time it's agreed upon  with just a smile and a nod.  I never mind someone casting over towards me if they time their cast and aren't  being azzholes by trying to land it at your feet.  I also try not to push my luck casting when someone has a fish on. Until it's controlled and coming in with head up, anything can happen.