what do you think ??????

Could be, I didn't really find any features that "stand out" on the bigger deer that appear to transcend. Its hard to say with a fairly typical rack.
 
Does that bigger deer have not have a G3 on its left antler? hard to see in the photo. And it almost looks like the smaller buck is with out a G3 on its right antler. But they are both in velvet still, and the photos are striate on with the deer facing the camera.
 
 

Dr. Trout

Finally got to see the "big boy" in person.... what do you think .. check it out ....

[url]http://drsems.tripod.com/2013bucks.html[/url]

 
 
What I think is, the racks are about 99% grown and without velvet they will be half as big as they appear now.
 
I also think my idea differs quite a bit from yours about what is a "big boy".
 
Maybe your area is nutritionally deficient?
 
Nice pics though.

Trout, i don't care what anyone else says but i'd call that a big boy. I'd be excited! 

DarDys sarcasm is correct, there were deer that big before AR. They were the winner of the buck pool. People would travel from miles away to come and see it.
 
Their isn't anything wrong with Dr.'s deer, if those were the biggest deer I scouted in my wood I would be after them to.

S-10, please post where you found that statistic I would like to see that.
 
I just checked the records and for firearm typical deer I didn't see a single entry for 2001 in the top 200, and only had 4 in the top 200 for archery.
 
9 of the top 25 firearm bucks ever taken in the state came after AR 
16 of the top 25 archery bucks ever taken in the state came after AR 
 
Surely AR must not be working at all since 35% of the top 25 firearm bucks came from 10% of the years on record. 64% of the top 25 archery bucks came from the same 10% of the years on record.
 
This is where I found my information
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=665407&mode=2
 

Anzomcik, you beat me to the punch by about 5 minutes!  Good research

Read what I said---PA record books------The PA record books record the bucks and note the year taken. Pope and young records the bucks by session entered, They could have been killed in the 1900's and not entered until the 2000's which happens all the time since scoring has become very popular in the last couple decades.
Some time  ago when this was a hot topic I physically went through the Pa record book and counted the number of bucks entered in each category by year and totaled them. I have gone back several times since to see how that number has changed. I  haven' done it in the last 2 years but doubt it has changed much. The numbers for each year and each category change after each session because folks get around to entering their father or grandfathers animal.

S10 - This information posted by Anzomcik is straight from the PA Record Books. 
 

anzomcik
I just checked the records and for firearm typical deer I didn't see a single entry for 2001 in the top 200, and only had 4 in the top 200 for archery.

S-10, so there is no link to your findings or published report, that is because you took note and did all the work yourself, correct? I guess that removes any doubt or questioning on your claim.
 
Please follow the link Esox and I posted (same link in two different posts), that is the PA record book link. I said this because in your last post you made comment that we were not looking at the same book. I want to make sure we are looking at the same book you were looking at.

S-10, if you were not getting your data from the PA record books (because they are incomplete), where were you getting your data from?

Well since we hijacked Doc's thread. LOL
I did some quick numbers with the link supplied to the pa game book
I used the top 100 from each catergory and did not count anything from 2003 to now or any unkown kill years
These are Pre AR numbers
Archery -typical = 45/100 for 45%
Archery- non typical = 29/66 for 44%
Gun -typical = 81/100 for 81%
Gun - non typical = 78/100 for 78%
If these numbers would hold up throught out the total sampling then it would be conclusive that more bucks (trophy) were killed prior to AR in Gun season.
Bow season tends to be better after AR but 44/45% is still pretty even to before AR.
Mike

I must not be understanding you S-10, becauseI have incomplete data from my source, and you have compiled a spreadsheet using the same data. According to you saying my data is incomplete doesnt that make yours also incomplete? What is your source?
 
Coyote, AR started in 2002. So there may be a slight adjustment to your numbers. But the data you have even going from your 2003 date might suggest more trophy bucks were taken before AR. But AR have been in place for 10 years, NON AR years have been in the book for 100 years. So NON AR Bucks in the book are being pulled from sample thats 10x greater.
 
So pick a decade from the record book, any continues 10 year period and compair it to the 10 years of AR. (same size sample) Then compair the numbers of entries

Just for the record, I was referring to docs buck compared to what the case is in this part of the state. (sw) and that is very much in the range of what most here would consider an "averagish" buck, and very few from HERE would refer to it as a "big boy" now or prior to ar, unless they spent very little time in the woods and had no idea what was representative of the area.
 
Everyones standards are different, and not putting down doc or his deer.   The minimum standards I impose on myself for taking a buck do not always meet my description of "big boy" either, but that doesn't mean that I or someone else might not want to harvest that deer.  
 
 I'm not food plot watchin' Jackie Bushman wannabe. (lol), but I do hold out for bucks somewhat larger than state dictated minimum, and I basically just know the one I wanna shoot when I see it.
 
Doc asked for "what do you think" so I told him what I thought.
 
 
As for the record book discussion, with all the things going on and all the promises that would come of the ar (which I support) and the many years of hr (which I don't, at least not as implemented) and increases in food plotting etc. etc...   You would think we would be over-run by trophy bucks, the books would be so overflowing with entries compared to previously that this wouldn't even be debatable.
 
Yet it is.
 
And despite pgcs comical deer plan supportive propaganda campaigns/articles etc,  Pa is far from what most would consider to be a "go to" state for big bucks, and probably never will be. 

DarDys, we hunt in different areas. I hunt in a WMU that has "3 up" and if your location is correct you hunt in a WMU that has "2 up" rule. Its an assumption on my part.
 
Please post some pics of the deer you have shot (both pre and post AR), or trail camera photos (If you use them). I am interested in seeing the general size of deer you are talking about.  I am not being sarcastic or anything I just want to see where you are coming from.
 

Coyote,

Ya that's a little bit of a grey area. But I fully understand your logic and reasoning behind why u included 2002 in ur calculation.

At first I thought u mistaken the year AR started. Thanks for the clarification on your work.