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SWPAFisherMan
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2013/05/04 11:30:16 (permalink)

Tiger Trout?

Hi Everyone,
 
I have read this board for a while and just recently joined.  I was hoping for some help deciding whether this trout I caught in April is a tiger trout.  Originally I thought it was a brown but the more I look at it I question if it was tiger.  It doesn't look a lot like the tiger trout pictures I saw on google, but it also doesn't look like a normal brown trout to me either.  This was almost certainly stocked because I don't think there are any wild trout in the stream (Pine Creek Allegheny County).
 
I've never posted here before so I hope you can see this picture I'm trying to post, took me about half an hour to get it small enough to try to attach.
 
Please let me know what you guys think.
 
Thanks
 
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#1
rippinlip
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/04 11:36:05 (permalink)
Looks like one to me.Nice catch.

You should have been here yesterday.............. Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by [Sir Izaak Walton]
#2
bcain
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/04 17:39:59 (permalink)
I've never heard of a Tiger trout before. Are they a hybrid or something?
#3
PAJAY
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/04 19:39:15 (permalink)
yes tiger one of the best stockers their is they travel far they don't stay in the area where their stocked . smithton stocked them couple years ago a week later It was fun below ceder creek.
#4
FishinGuy
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 09:23:55 (permalink)
They also seem to be pretty warm water tolerant. I've caught them in July when rainbows sitting right next to them seem to be gasping for their last breaths of the year in warm streams.
#5
fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 10:07:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
That sure looks like a tiger. Fast growers, voracious eaters. They come in quite a few color variations. Take a look at this photo from Wikipedia:
 

 
The state officially ended their "experiments" with them a few years ago they say, but they still seem to end up in a lot of waterways. Some clubs still stock them, as do other agencies.
 
Here are pictures of tiger trout I've caught in Southwestern PA in the last 5 years:
 

 

 

 

 
And one for the smoker:
 

 
Here's a page on the fish commission's site that talks about them: http://www.fish.state.pa....sh/hybrid_breeding.htm
#6
just_wanna_fish
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 10:53:05 (permalink)
quite a bit of color variation, some look like browns (to me)  i probably have caught them and just thought hmm its a trout must be a brown

Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
#7
fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 11:15:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Yeah, on one end of the spectrum they look a lot like browns, with the main variation being vermiculation (which is usually more intense near the tail).
 

 
On the other end of the color range, some tigers look a lot more like brook trout.
 

 
Some look like neither parent species.
 

 
Check out this page for a whole range of colors: http://www.thelocalhookupma.com/id13.html
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Stillhead
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 11:44:38 (permalink)
I caught two in traverse creek below raccoon lake last week. So they must be stocking a few here and there.
post edited by Stillhead - 2013/05/05 11:45:45
#9
fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 12:08:36 (permalink)
They sure seem to be popping up. I caught most of mine in Loyalhanna and Indian Creek leading me to believe they washed down from the Rolling Rock Club, where they can be seen swimming in the privately owned waters from the road. One came out of Meadow Run.
 
Perhaps some appearing around the state are remnants of the old experimental program, but that seems hard to believe since that was reportedly wrapped up in 2005. What's more, tigers are sterile, so there is no brood stock. They're raised to acceptable size and released.
 
Browns and brooks have a different number of chromosomes. Because of this only 5% of the eggs involved in any attempt at spawning between the two species in the wild will be fertilized. The process of breeding tigers involves heating the eggs (the heat shock causes a mutation that increases the percentage of fertilization). That involves work. Someone must be doing it.
post edited by fishink - 2013/05/05 12:09:48
#10
bcain
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/05 23:57:32 (permalink)
Caught a few over the years that now I believe were tigers. I always just thought they were regular browns with unique patterns. Like I said before, you learn something new everyday.
#11
Cold
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 00:00:24 (permalink)
The one in the OP looks like a fairly standard stocked brown to me.
 
For all of the tigers I've caught, like all of the follow up pics posted (except fishink's 3rd and 5th images), there's no mistaking them for a brown.  For those two images, for the 3rd, there's too much glare, for the 5th, looks like a brown to me.
 
Here's two of the nicer one's I've taken:
 

 

#12
fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 01:14:17 (permalink)
The one in the OP looks like a fairly standard stocked brown to me

 
They look similar, but brown trout don't have vermiculations. That's the give away.
 
Look at this one, it almost looks like a big water rainbow (other than the vermiculations):
 

#13
FishinGuy
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 07:24:09 (permalink)
here's another silvery tiger with fairly subdued markings. The silvery ones are a little harder to tell I think. But if you look at the tail, the markings say tiger. Btw, this tiger(or overly "vermiculated" brown, I'm no expert) hit a creek chub almost 4" long in i think late June while I was smallmouth fishing.
post edited by FishinGuy - 2013/05/06 15:50:31
#14
FishinGuy
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 07:29:13 (permalink)
This one wasn't too healthy looking.
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Cold
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 13:31:32 (permalink)
fishink

The one in the OP looks like a fairly standard stocked brown to me


They look similar, but brown trout don't have vermiculations. That's the give away.

Look at this one, it almost looks like a big water rainbow (other than the vermiculations):

 
I hear what you're saying, I just disagree.  I've caught many, many browns with "vermiculations" that were clearly not tigers, and many, many stocker browns that look exactly like the one pictured above.  I'm not saying that you're completely wrong...just based on fish I've caught...if I caught the ones I mentioned that were pictured, I'd not consider them to be tigers in any sense.  In fact, it wouldn't even enter my mind, as I'd quickly identify it as a brown before I even brought it to hand.
#16
Cold
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 13:39:56 (permalink)
For reference, here's a few browns, showing "vermiculation" to a greater or lesser degree.
 

 

 

#17
troutguy
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/06 19:21:33 (permalink)
Fishink, is the tiger in your last pic, as well as the 3rd to last in your first set of pics, wild fish? If so that's awesome!! Many people fish streams that have wild brookies and browns all of their lives and never catch a wild tiger because they are so rare even with healthy wild pops of browns and brooks present.  I can care less about stocked tigers lol. 
 
And for the OP, I'm going with brown.  I've caught quite a few stocked browns that looked pretty much exactly like that fish in streams that are only stocked by the PFBC(which doesn't stock tigers any more). 
 
edit: looking back at the pic I'm not sure now, but I'm still leaning towards brown.  I'm going with 85% brown 15% tiger. If nobody other than the PFBC stocks it then I'm 99.9% sure it's a brown. 
post edited by troutguy - 2013/05/06 19:25:19
#18
fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/07 17:18:05 (permalink)
Last one was definitely a wash down stocked fish from Rolling Rock. It still had signs of hatchery wear and tear. I wouldn't have taken it if I thought there was a chance it was a wild fish.
 
Although wild tigers are exceedingly rare, I actually think there's a chance the 3rd to last you mention may very well have been one. I caught it in a stream that believe it or not supports some wild production of brook, brown and rainbow trout, even though it's only stocked with the latter two. The fish and its markings were about as clean as you can get. The most likely answer is that it wasn't wild, but it definitely could have been.
 
The first fish (in the net) came out of the exact same hole two years earlier.
 
 
#19
World Famous
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/07 20:05:16 (permalink)
Sorry, SWPA, its mearly a color variation of a brown. Most of the stocked browns I have caught this year are similar to your fish in the photo. The mortality factor for raising tigers is very high, hence, not alot raised by the state. Most are from sportsmens clubs....WF
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KJH807
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/07 20:28:09 (permalink)
the original fish is a stocked brown... no question
 



#21
fishrmn
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/07 22:57:41 (permalink)
^  I'll second that, I've seen many stocked browns in PA that are poorly colored like that one.
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fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 02:50:55 (permalink)
I didn't realize you could now do DNA testing of photographs through computer screens. And to an absolute certainty no less! I'll have to download that program.
 
Biologists should probably get a copy too, since it can be difficult for them to properly ID tigers at times, even with DNA.
#23
World Famous
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 07:01:42 (permalink)
It seems, if the state is no raising  tiger trout, that it would be a brown trout. And since tigers are unable to reproduce, it can not have any percentage of tiger in it. Were you on the O.J. jury by any chance??...WF
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fishink
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 08:02:26 (permalink)
That's like saying, "since the manufacture of moonshine is illegal in the U.S., it seems that bottle you found under the still in the mountains of Kentucky marked 'xxx' would be Jack Daniels."
 
Non sequitur.
 
We actually don't know whether the PFBC has completely halted all tiger breeding since they stopped announcing exacts on their stocking program quite a while ago. The only real notice of their stocking of tigers that I have ever even found over the years is that little side note in an FAQ made after the fact that says "this practice was discontinued around 2005." The PFBC has also been known to source fish and fish eggs from outside hatcheries and agencies, so perhaps some tigers came in that way.
 
And beyond the PFBC there are several private clubs that stock tigers (noted a few times in this thread), hatcheries that raise them, and probably limited wild reproduction.
 
Tigers are unable to reproduce, but in the right situation browns and brooks can get together and make magic (documented in several cases, in several locations). And since tigers have the alleles of brown and brook trout they can exhibit the features of either parent species, a combination of the two, or neither.
 
You have pictures in this thread from different sources of tigers from several waters taken well after the PFBC says they stopped stocking tigers. They obviously exist.
post edited by fishink - 2013/05/08 08:05:51
#25
Cold
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 08:47:52 (permalink)
The fish in the original post looks identical to stocked browns that have been caught many, many times by experienced fishermen.
 
I don't see how you can seriously believe that calling it a tiger trout, a far less likely option even without the picture, is less of a stretch, and a more sensible option than the possibility that maybe, just maybe, it's a typical stocked brown trout.  One of millions that look just like it.
#26
JEB
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 09:22:06 (permalink)
Nice Tiger !
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 14:52:24 (permalink)
I helped stock tigers in Forrest County this year. They were state fish. I don't want to argue with anyone. I'm just sayin'. They were undoubtedly tigers. I was confused when I read this thread because everyone is saying that the state doesn't stock them anymore but I dumped buckets of them in the streams. I had never seen one before this year. They are beautiful fish.

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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 15:11:40 (permalink)

2 Tigers, 2 color variations. Caught out of Kooser Run in 2011.
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troutguy
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Re:Tiger Trout? 2013/05/08 15:24:36 (permalink)
^Yep those are without a doubt tigers(and of course stocked).  I know nothing about Kooser Run, but did it get stocked by anyone else other than the PFBC(assuming they stock it) in 2011?  Just trying to figure out if the PFBC really didn't stop stocking them as slabdaddy said, or at least getting a few mixed in from other hatcheries as fishink said. 
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