4/22/13

Went out a little today and I should of stayed home.    Went up north  the water was pretty good at 400 and I was the only one there. Should of known how the day was going to go when the Honey Wagon  was spreading liquid  and it stunk everything up.   Re spooled the night before and I guess I put too much on and line memory of  Trilene kept  it coming off the spool.    Then  the spool kept coming off my reel and I finally figured out the spring that holds it on broke.     GRRRRRR      Not a hit up there 2 other guys came a bit after I did and they got nothing too.  Went to the place where RG went the other day and only 1 car there I think this is OK.   Meet them just a bit down  and berfore they saw me I saw them ripping Michigan Cricket style at a fish knew right then I was in trouble because I was walking to where they had been and the fish would all be spooked.  They were.  I decide to walk way down and then come back hoping the fish would calm on the way back up.   Fished to a few fish and started back and who do I see coming at me, the  same rippers coming back down .   I had passed  2 on a redd 50 yards back and they were quick to see them and start the sideways ripping at them.   Just high tailed it to the car.   
 
I did see one guy walking over the Altmar bridge with a fish.  Should of stayed home and took a nap

When you see this stuff, you have to drop the dime! Even if the ECO's don't show this time eventually they will be there waiting.
 
L13

Therr were guys netting steelhead just downstream of the altmar parking lot which was a running pool at the time a few days ago. The guys went to rig up and fish up by the bridge afterwards but opted out. Was probably a good move as someone had already threatened to call DEC supposedly... i will say though, ive yet to be inclined to call the DEC on anyone. I wouldnt frown on anybody for doing it when the situation is suited ... but most likely not me...

Not looking to start a war here, but some of the most blatant poaching ive seen has been from locals or just straight up ny staters... its anyones perogative to choose what they want to do. I choose to not be a whistle blower... my personal choice. Maybe thats why i dont hit the river like i used to... maybe.... just a thought here. If i see a crackhead hitting his pipe on a street corner i dont call the cops....kinda the same principle i guess.

I'll try not to be judgmental but you can't see something, do nothing and then complain about it.  Is it any different if you see someone abusing a child , spouse or committing any other crime that shocks the sensibilities?
Where do you draw line as to what you, by being silent, give tacit approval to?   

I fish to enjoy myself and relax in the great outdoors. Dont give a hoot bout numbers or generally the weather either -just want to go out and relax- usually as far from others as I can get too.
I was a City Cop for 28 years to earn a living. It was a nasty, bloody, drug laden , time of death, poverty, and clueless unwashed people.
 The two dont go together.
 Aint no way I'm goin out to relax and have to be callin L/E and or gettin involved in other peoples ( generally slobs) BS any more than necessary.
   Life or death stuff or helping somebody who is in need- YEP -anytime.
  Goin fishing and spending all my time looking for slobs and having to engross myself in their idiocy-   Nope-been there done that.
 Have bumped into L/E on the river from time to time and mentioned things to them -but- nothing I ever said was different from what they already knew was happening.
  Callin L/E to tell them there is snagging going on on the SR is like my gettin calls in the old days from somebody teling me they are dealing drugs in the Projects.

Dime I whole agree100% it is not an out of state POS thing, it is a local POS  thing too, these idiots  car had NY plates.   I have called a few times when I have  gotten disgusted enough and sometimes if I am not alone or there are others around I have and will call people out.    I will not however confront anyone when I am alone, especially in the middle of the woods  and doubly especially if I am outnumbered.   Too many wack jobs for me to be lying there with a busted Jaw and lacerated liver.   I was disgusted enough this time, but I did not have my phone on me.    I will go visit Matt this weekend I think and ask him if they do any patrols up there and suggest they may want to visit up there especially in high water conditions.  Hell,  I can let alot of stuff go and shake my head and walk away or smile and keep fishing,   especially if you are at least  giving the pretense of trying to fish even if you are lining fish or force feeding them.    When you ruin a whole section of creek for anyone fishing  by walking up and down the middle of it,  poking sticks under trees and undercuts  and just sideways ripping  why don't you just put a treble hook on a meat pole a rip away.

sorry havent been on lately my internet have been down they say i need a new motom or something like that
 
just a update from 2wks ago first thanks for all the tips did look at some tribs like someone said too many people lifting them off the beds my brother and i talked to a guy about it and he said if we anit dec then get the f out of his face.  so that was the end of us trying to be good sports  (wish we new what car he had) well fished at altmar went 1 for 4 the two days my brother new hits no runs and no one left on.  this is the third trip that he has been skunked   again want to thank everyone for the tips and help  maybe one more trip this spring
semper fi
brothers

Agreed Clint-If ya look like it at least your trying.
 Aint no way ya can be puttin  a bait by some steel in a run - wether ya can see them or not-time after time looking for a hit and not line or foul one sooner or later- there IS a difference----intent.
 Have minimized that to a degree by using much smaller hooks- even on sacs- but have even fouled them with a #12 fly  on occasion.
  Hey-read a post someplaace else where some guy said in many years of fishing the Sr he had NEVER lined or fouled a fish. Betcha he has yet to catch anything lol.
 IT happens.

Agreed Jack, they absolutely can be enticed to strike.   I just worded it wrong above.   Steel can and will strike/bite to eat.  As I understand it Salmon strike or bite out of anger or instinct, just not to feed as their stomachs are essentially turned off.    Correct???

As PaFisher says, I've asked thousand why they hit and I hear not a sound except from bullheads that croak at me once in a while!
 
Even if we never know why the fish hits or if we only get a few hits, fair chase says the fish hits first, not the fisher!
 
UFZ regs in the summer say you are allowed to catch Atlantic Salmon and Ska's, but it won't be easy!  You gonna save a dime if you start seeing all the lead and the palsey up there?
 
And I fished the ballpark in the fall the last two years without ripping (and mostly without success, until after the crowd thinned), but it didn't look any different than Dougtown when the kings are in, or anywhere else on the river, and chrome season I see a lot of that on the LFZ except they use the 40 lb flyline instead of the 17 lb mono on the Fin Nor or other high dollar reel.  New Yorker's and out of staters, poachers don't recognize state lines, so if I offended anyone from OOS, sorry.
 
But I worked a long time and took a lot of S*** to get help get things to where they are now, so when the recent transplants start talking about letting it all go down  the toilet again,  I get a little hot.  The war started 30+ years ago, and if you value the quality of your environment(which is the jalorms around  you when UR fishing) and fishery, get off your mule and help do something, as 2B says or you can't ****.  Or maybe some folks (Clint definitely excluded) feel a touch guilty! 
 
"You are either part of the solution or part of the problem" - Eldridge Cleaver 
 
The Rochester Police won't even respond to an auto theft report anymore.  File a report with DMV, call it into the 311 number, we'll send you a form for the insurance company.  Now there's a solution to the crime problem.
 
Let's see what it looks like next year after every yahoo with a TV sees "The Run" on Sportsman's Network and 81 in September looks like 17 at Woodstock.  And when the word is out that no one gives a manure bag about the behavior and doesn't pull the ECO's in even if it means finding a phone, well, the I'll get on a high horse about King salmon being a pollution source to all the nearshores of the lake and we can go back to just native coasters and  Atlantics, C+R only.
 
What is right is right, and I think if they hear about it, the ECO's show up, but if everybody says FI, well, you'll get what you deserve.
 
L13    

Question: Does anyone here call the DEC when they are fishing fly zone and seeing same people poking the same fish over and over again in the tail to only see them belly up downstream afterwards?

Question:what When fishing the ballpark in the fall for salmon there is obviously many people snagging and ripping right? With that being said, When fishing there at that time Does anyone call the DEC to report what they are seeing?


Now taking into consideration what some have said on this thread Would it be safe to assume that if you answered no to both questions here you are Just contributing to the problem?

Points taken.  When I was in the ball park for 2.5 hours during Salmon, I did not see a foul hooked fish kept (there were a lot of fish on stringers, and a lot of guys with the palsey, but even more that were just clueless and probably got told to go there by the tackleshops).   And I don't own a cell phone.  But I've called in plates and descriptions on my home waters for years, and confronted people over illegal behavior.  And as 2B says, if you donl;t call out the behavior, you can;t complina about it later.  That is one of the functions of the SOL meetings, let DEC Know what you think at the end of the meeting.  At the meetings in Rochester, LE is usually there, I don't know about Oswego.  And you also have ot hold the JP's accountable by letting them know that your vote goes elsewhere if they are just dismissing all the cases.
 
L13

13 makes a great point about the courts.
   Was about the only City Cop in my family- many  of the others were Game Wardens and Fish & Game Constables. We often compared notes while fishing and hunting together and at family gatherings.
 I was a 'felony cop' for the most part and very familiar with trials and court proceedings that went 'all the way'. They generally gave out tickets for court at a later time for game violations and most often complained about their cases NOT getting much notice in the Courts.
 The Judge and prosecutors are- in most all states- greatly overwhelmed with cases to prosecute and make necessary  decisions based on that 'case load'.
  Face it- here are guys with Felony assault cases- murder and sexual assault cases, burglaries and fraud cases and Crack dealers in front of them and each trial could easily take days  in court..
 Fish and Game comes in with cases of a licensed outdoorsmen with too many Trout Pheasant  or a snagging case.
   Not hard to figure out which ones are going to a trial and which are gonna get 'negotiated' when the accused pleads not guilty..
 The only saving grace here is the fact that they have to show up in court and be inconvenienced. THAT has more juice that ya may think- especially in a fishery where so many have to make a special trip up in the first place.
  Would make an educated guess that most simply send in their fine listed on the ticket as the trip up to do otherwise is far more expensive . Even if loosing their tag for a year is part of the deal.
   Anyone trying to make a big deal out of it and pleading Not Guilty likely gets some kind of alternative- mostly  a big 'contribution' to some Charity to weasel out  of tickets- then they run around saying how they 'beat' the ticket- --they didnt -the contribution is usually way more that he ticketed fine but they never admit to that lol.
  Point-- looking up the number of actual GUILTY pleadings in such cases will often show large numbers being 'nolled' indicating nothing happened to the violator.     Most likely actual fact-- these guys were inconvenienced and pounded in the wallet by other means.
   Stats dont always tell the real story.

Different States have different laws however when getting a ticket one generally has options. Even in the most minor of offenses..
  Fish and game laws - like many MV violations-are mostly things where a ticket is given with a mail in fine attached as they are generally lower on the crime list.      Things like Deer poaching are another matter generally associated with 'higher degrees of punishment.
  Generally there is  an alternative to paying the mail in fine for the NO plea on the ticket for the things we are speaking about that do not meet the threshold of long jail terms being part of the punishment which would generally require a court appearance..-
   Mailing back  a No usually leads to the court date for the initial plea being assigned to the alleged violator by a later mailing.
 Lotsa guys simply say No hoping for overburdened courts to make adjustments..
  Am looking forward to speaking to L/E on the River asking about the NY  system but and pretty darned sure this is America and one can always plead their innocence-when any punitive action is involved  -- lol.