Dr. Trout
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wayne c
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/29 15:27:16
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Nice of pgc to waste our money as usual, this time asking obvious questions which they have no intent of taking into account anyway. No surprises here. Percent of hunters less interested than 5 years ago-- 36% More interested 13% Percent of hunters satisfied with number of antlered deer seen 27% Percent satisfied with antlerless seen 37% Percent satisfied with quality of buck seen 36%. Percent who said number of antlered deer seen was too low for them to be satisfied -- 74% 61% said antlerless was also "too low". When asked how satisfied you are with your deer hunting experience in 2010 season, #1 choice given was DISSATISFIED. When asked want is most important factor affecting your interest in deer hunting, the highest reason give was : number or quality of antlered deer. - Yep. Big shockers there. lol. I really dont see anything there to "debate" though. It is what it is.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/07/29 15:30:58
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Dr. Trout
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Dr. Trout
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/29 19:28:37
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As for Wayne's negatives comments.. you have to keep in mind that of THOSE SURVEYED... only 18% shot a buck and 77% did not shoot an antlerless... so to begin with == most of the surveyed hunters were not successful deer hunters last year .. I would think that would reflect a bunch in all the answers .. especially the negative ones.... So it appears to me, that for the year 2011 the survey contacted more un-succesful hunters and thus many of the unsatisfied answers but who knows ?????? It is what it is !!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/07/29 19:29:40
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World Famous
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/29 19:51:48
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Some responses were kinda strange. Like about 70% hunted for friendship and the like but 65% were not happy with the overall hunting experiance. Somebodys not sure what they actually want. Also, there was a lot of tricky worded questions and possibile answers. Sounded like a politicians poll. Over all, about the way my friends and hunting buddies percieve the management of game. 65% are not happy...WF
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wayne c
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/29 19:59:57
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"I still like the fact that with all the Betching and complaining only a little over half took the time to even do the survey.." Only understandable. Hunters are tired of not being listened to and wasting their time talking with pgc. Most that Im aware of dont want anything to do with them. No surprise there either.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/07/29 20:59:37
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wayne c
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/29 20:07:35
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"As for Wayne's negatives comments.. "
They werent "my" negative comments doc. They were the negative results of the survey. Dont look at me, I wasnt contacted for input.
WF says: "Over all, about the way my friends and hunting buddies percieve the management of game. 65% are not happy"
Actually while thats not 'good', its not nearly as bad as most I know. I cannot think of anyone off hand that supports the failed management scheme. If I think for awhile I might come up with one person. But the percentage of dis-satisfaction with herd reductions is overwhelming among most Im aware of.
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S-10
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/29 21:28:06
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At least the PGC listened to the hunters-------- The hunters were unsatisfied with the low deer nembers as a result of HR -----The PGC's corrective action was to base their antlerless allocation on the same number of deer we had BEFORE HR ----That should help---NOT  The reason the survey contacted so many unsuccessful hunters is because there ARE so many unsuccessful hunters. It would be hard for any survey to do anything else without hand picking the folks to send them to.
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Esox_Hunter
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/30 11:57:17
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According to the 2011-2012 harvest data which shows 127k antlered harvested and assuming we have 750k deer hunters in the state (depending on whose numbers you use), the antlered success rate for PA is approximately 17%. That is fairly close to the rate reported by respondents in this survey. There is no doubt that the results of this survey are far from being encouraging in most of the more important categories. Also true that some pizz poor language and questions were used in this survey. I especially like the statement in the agree/disagree section that states: "There are not enough deer unless some are starving to death each year" 
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worm_waster
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/30 14:01:05
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I wonder what the numbers would be if they took the same poll 20-30 years ago.
There were people burning their doe tags back then and less people got "a deer" than now.w_w.
If it has fins and gills, I'm there.
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Dr. Trout
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/30 18:09:39
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When I first started hunting in the 60s you better believe guys were betching about not enough deer.... all you heard was do not shoot does... killing one is taking three from the herd the next year.. I also had Many many days of not seeing a deer up to the 1980s.... I'd say things got better in the early 1980s and just boomed until the late 1990s.... but there has been and always will be those not supporting killing females.... and complaining about the number of deer they see.... far too many got spoiled when there were deer running everywhere on opening day of rifle season and one could see 100 deer in a day's hunt....so I personally have lived (hunted) thru the bad day.. and the good days.. and still enjoy Pa deer hunting to this day...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/07/30 18:15:35
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worm_waster
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/31 09:07:43
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I did not say that we are killing more deer now than then. I stated that we kill more deer per hunter. We obviously have less hunters, but the success rate is higher now I believe.
I personally saw an average of over 3 deer per hour last year in a week of hunting in 2G, All in a DMAP State Forest. As I have stated before, I am no alpha hunter, but I do enjoy it and spend a bit of time at it. Pretty much anyone on this board, with the exception of a few with health issues, can hunt where I do. I wouldn't consider that bad hunting. Of course both of us have a differing opinion on what hunting should be. With that we just have to agree or disagree.w_w.
If it has fins and gills, I'm there.
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S-10
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/31 09:30:54
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Actually,the average success rate on bucks was over 20% prior to the start of AR/HR and that was with over 200,000 more hunters------- In their feeble attempt to claim the success rate is as good as ever the PGC went back into the eighties to compare with the present day success rate. They also now use about 700,000 deer hunters for their calculation for success even though they used 881,000 deer hunters when they were calculating the dollar impact of adding Sunday hunting.
They also use a forumla that increases the calculated kill even though they have published research on their own website that shows what they are doing is inflating the calculated harvest.
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Dr. Trout
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/31 19:16:29
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What he is saying or NOT SAYING is that the buck success rate was better before AR/HR.. but what he is always forget to allow for, as usual, is the fact that antler restriction helped lower that rate more than the number of deer.... before AR all bucks were legal with a 3 inch antler.. now you can not shoot less than 3 on a side in my area.. so even my success rate has fallen off to NOTHING .... and AR is sure to be about 70% of the reason for that happening the other 30% is I shoot the first legal deer I see male or female... and I do not go very far into the woods....  I could have EASILY shot a 4 pointer last year at 7:15am and been home with it by 8am IF it were legal..... when debating buck harvest success rates please do not forget to think about what antler restrictions have done and still do to that figure.... and least I forget .. YEP there sure are less deer out there than in the 1990s.... LOL
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Dr. Trout
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/31 19:21:34
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I never saw a 100 in a day, but 20 was common. Now seeing 40 all year is the norm If 20 deer was your norm in "the good days" .. then YES you are right, you are not spoiled ... but if you were hunting in the 1990s I'd say you were not hunting a very good area if 20 was the norm ... and I'm sure with HR the area is even worse now .. thus your 40 all year now ?????
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S-10
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/07/31 20:13:41
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I see Doc's math skills haven't improved any from a year ago. AR only has a large effect on the kill the first year. Even Alt recognized and stated that. The reason he gave for wanting to take an additional 100,000 doe the first year was to make room for the additional 100,000 bucks he anticipated saving. BTW -- since you agree there are less deer out there than there were in the 90's do you have any idea why the deer number estimates the PGC biologists gave the BOC to base the doe allocations on was much higher than they were in the 90's. 
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Dr. Trout
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/01 18:28:11
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AR only has a large effect on the kill the first year Sorry I did not buy that the first time you posted it years ago and I am not buying it now... As long as and If there are deer out there running around every year that I ( or others) can not shoot because they are protected .. then that effects the total possible harvest figures.... I'm not going to believe for ONE MINUTE you truely believe that if they stopped antler restrictions and went back to the 3 inch rule the success rate and harvest numbers would not go up ??????????????? Thus ARs do effect the toal harvest numbers and success rates.......
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/08/01 18:31:45
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World Famous
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/01 19:20:29
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Sorry, Doc. S-10 is correct . Just ain't no where near the amount of legal bucks out there as we had even the second year of AR.....WF
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S-10
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/01 20:02:18
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Doc Quote: I'm not going to believe for ONE MINUTE you truely believe that if they stopped antler restrictions and went back to the 3 inch rule the success rate and harvest numbers would not go up ???????????????
The harvest rate would go up for the first year (compared to the previous year) as the bucks saved from the previous year plus the 1-1/2 year old bucks were harvested but would fall right back after that. Just the opposite of what happened the first year of AR.
It's simple math Doc------ Also, The buck harvest will never be as good as 2000/2001 unless the herd is allowed to recover. Also simple math.
The PGC is not going to allow that to happen as they are still in a Herd REDUCTION mode as shown by their allocating anterless licenses based on a deer herd equal to what we had at the start of Herd Reduction
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treesparrow
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/01 22:15:12
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I used to spend many hours every day in the woods and I truely believe that herd reduction was needed in many parts of the state. How many of you that are following this site also agree or disagree that in some areas of the state herd reduction was needed.
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World Famous
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/02 07:10:56
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I agree also Tree. All my posts have said that. However, the reduction was just ,and is still, too much. I hunt very private property with VERY limited access so the HR now has no affect on me. Like all hunters, I would like to see an increase of deer on open property. Not to the 90's level but not at the present levels either....WF
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World Famous
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/02 19:49:32
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Don't know a thing about it. I just ask them real nice to stay. Seems to work...WF
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S-10
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/02 21:10:24
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Asking real nice and a bag of corn seems to be the secret.
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thedrake
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/03 08:37:03
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dpms
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/05 09:43:50
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S-10
The harvest rate would go up for the first year (compared to the previous year) as the bucks saved from the previous year plus the 1-1/2 year old bucks were harvested but would fall right back after that. Just the opposite of what happened the first year of AR.
It's simple math Doc------ Also, The buck harvest will never be as good as 2000/2001 unless the herd is allowed to recover. Also simple math.
I agree. One year spike then will flatten out.
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/05 09:48:15
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Docto
I love to hear the private land hunters say they are unaffected.
Some are, some are not, depending on many factors. Most of the private land I hunt has been moderately affected by HR. It was needed on some of them and not on others.
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/05 09:58:34
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wayne c
When asked how satisfied you are with your deer hunting experience in 2010 season, #1 choice given was DISSATISFIED.
I believe it was the same when our herd was at record highs? Point is hunters are a fickle bunch in general. I think as more hunters spend less time in the woods(trending) we will see dissatisfaction continue to increase. Whether there are strong game populations or not.
My rifle is a black rifle
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wayne c
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/05 18:45:53
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"I believe it was the same when our herd was at record highs? Point is hunters are a fickle bunch in general. I think as more hunters spend less time in the woods(trending) we will see dissatisfaction continue to increase. Whether there are strong game populations or not." -I disagree. Saying that equates basically to satisfaction not increasing with more deer sighted/and or harvested on a sustainable basis. And I dont see that as being in any way realistic. I know MANY who are not happy with current herd levels, that were quite content for years previously, and not a single solitary ONE of those same people that were whining about too few deer in the "higher" deer years. Although Im sure some existed, surely a tiny minority, very much unlike now. Pretty straight forward and nothing 'fickle' about it imho.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/08/05 19:54:04
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wayne c
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/05 19:57:51
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dpms
S-10
The harvest rate would go up for the first year (compared to the previous year) as the bucks saved from the previous year plus the 1-1/2 year old bucks were harvested but would fall right back after that. Just the opposite of what happened the first year of AR.
It's simple math Doc------ Also, The buck harvest will never be as good as 2000/2001 unless the herd is allowed to recover. Also simple math.
I agree. One year spike then will flatten out.
I also agree. And its been explained to Doc quite a few times in the past, though he seems to be unable to comprehend it. The first year the harvest would be a bit higher than it would be otherwise, then go back down and level off at a level similar to what it was prior to that one year, if all else were equal with the herd being stable and no further "herd reductions" or herd increase had occurred. As for the "private" ownership lands that I hunt on, none are highly restricted lands and are pretty much open to anyone willing to ask. Every one of them has been effected by HR although to varying degrees, some more than others. It was needed in some areas, not in others. Though in the majority, I would say it went a bit further than needed.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/08/05 20:02:17
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dpms
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Re:2011 Pa Deer Hunter Survey Results ====
2012/08/05 20:52:11
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wayne c
-I disagree. Saying that equates basically to satisfaction not increasing with more deer sighted/and or harvested on a sustainable basis. And I dont see that as being in any way realistic.
I know MANY who are not happy with current herd levels, that were quite content for years previously, and not a single solitary ONE of those same people that were whining about too few deer in the "higher" deer years. Although Im sure some existed, surely a tiny minority, very much unlike now.
No doubt that many are dissatisfied currently. The point I was making is that when herd levels were at historical highs, MANY of these same hunters were complaining about not enough deer. This according to PGC surveys at the time.
My rifle is a black rifle
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