Hunters United for Sunday Hunting

Hi! This is Kathy Davis and I am one of the founders of Hunters United for Sunday Hunting.  I saw the other thread here a while back; and thought I'd clear up some of the nonsense.  I posted this on our facebook page today. One of the attorneys who is giving us advice from Virginia donated $500 this morning. He knows that once this falls in PA it will likely fall everywhere.  There are reasons; but we'll wait until after our case is filed to disclose them.  We have hired attorney Peter J Russo of Mechanicsburg PA to represent us.
 
As we hope you know, we intend to challenge the Sunday hunting closure law in court.
 
We intend to do that by making the state recognize that hunting is a right in PA and not the privilege as its being treated.
While rights are subject to reasonable regulation, we believe this is an unlawful law.
Our first Constitution said in SECT. 43. The inhabitants of this state shall have liberty to fowl and hunt in seasonable times on the lands they hold, and on all other lands therein not inclosed; and in like manner to fish in all boatable waters, and others not private property

Each newer version has a statement similar to the one in 1790.
SCHEDULE from 1790
That no inconvenience may arise from the Alterations and Amendments in the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and in order to carry the same into complete operation, it is hereby declared and ordained, Of former laws, proceedings and contracts.
I. That all laws of this commonwealth, in force at the time of making the said alterations and amendments in the said Constitution, and not inconsistent therewith, and all rights, actions, prosecutions, claims and contracts, as well of individuals as of bodies corporate, shall continue as if the said alterations and amendments had not been made.

Simply, we still have the RIGHT to hunt; but we must show this in court. We need your help to do that; so we have to fund raise between now and the time this goes to court. We are trying to reach a short term goal of $15,000 total raised by July 4th. We have currently raised $12,000. Our total goal is a minimum raised of $70,000 but we don't need that all at once.
 
If you have already given, THANK YOU! We ask that you try to get at least one friend to donate too.
If you haven't, please consider a donation now. We want all of our supporters to one day be able to say to their children or grandchildren that they had an active role in restoring the right to hunt and fish in PA, and to be able to say "There was once a ban on Sunday Hunting,. I am part of the reason this ban was removed.  I also cared enough to restore hunting and fishing as a RIGHT in PA."
 
Please donate now.
http://www.huntsunday.com/#/donate/4563996517
Kathy
 
 

Sounds typical---Out of state doners and out of state pressure to adopt regulations the majority of state residents and hunters said they didn't want.  If it passes will those hunter/landowners with posted property who think this is a good idea open their  land up to make room for the hunters who lose out because former open property gets posted ?
There is no ban on Sunday hunting, you just can't hunt everything you want. Heck I can't hunt Hawks, Owls, Bluebirds or Robins either, maybe I should sue.
 
 

The issue isn't to regain the right to hunt just as it isn't about who has control. Those are just attempts to deflect the issue because there isn't enough support for the REAL ISSUE which is Sunday Hunting, mainly for deer.
 
I am also a former Marine and took the same oath which has nothing to do with the issue at hand although I applaud you for your choice.
 
I have hunted several states that currently have Sunday hunting and have knocked on enough doors over the last 50 years to call BS on anyone who claims It does not or did not have an effect on loss of land. They also said HR/AR would not have an effect on loss of land in PA and we all see how that worked out.
 
Both the PGC and QDMA cite loss of land as a serious problem for the hunter and the PGC hunter survey showed that lack of places to hunt was the #2 reason for hunters leaving the sport.
 
If your group was really concerned about hunter recruitment why wouldn't they address the reasons the hunters themselves gave for leaving the sport (LACK OF GAME) (LACK OF PLACES TO HUNT) rather than re visiting an issue the hunters already showed they didn't support in enough numbers to have  pass even when told they held the key .

  You can hunt Sundays---Just not what you seem to want too----I can't hunt hawks, owls, bluebirds, or robbins either. Is that my right. Being a former Marine you know that rights are not totally absloute.  No one is saying we can't hunt.  The right to hunt is not in question
 
 You give as a reason your group is pushing the issue  the fact we are losing hunters at a faster rate than we are gaining them  and claim allowing Sunday Hunting will reverse that in spite of the fact that it will negatively effect the top two reasons the hunters have given for giving up on hunting.
 
I can keep this up as long as you want or we can just agree to disagree on this issue.
 
 It's the quality of the time spent hunting (or any sport) that keeps folks coming back not the amount of time spent. Further depleting a already diminished game resource will add nothing to the quality of the hunt.

S-10

Sounds typical---Out of state doners and out of state pressure to adopt regulations the majority of state residents and hunters said they didn't want. 

 
Reasonable to assume that non hunters may not favor Sunday hunting. Personally, their weight should be far down the scale when it comes to the management of our wildlife resources.
 
As far as hunters, many polls show that hunters favor removing the general assembly from the role of regulating hunting on Sundays. These same hunters slightly oppose expansion of Sunday hunting, mostly only for deer, according to the same surveys.
 
 

Hi DPMS--it's been awhile---bty--I went over to the dark side-I'll let you know how it goes.
 
We have all seen how the process works when it pertains to further reducing the deer population. The current doe allocations are based on having the same number of deer today as we did in 2001. As hard as it is to say it, at the present time, the politicans are more trustworthy than the PGC.
 
You may want to type in - poll wizard sunday hunting poll-  looks like more a 2 to one against based on a 10,000 sample. As I recall the  polls showed about 53-47 split amoung hunters, the direction depending on how they were worded.

And you know polls are for wiping your ***. As in case the poll for the Gov of Wisconsin to lose the recall vote . 67% of the blue collar workers voted him back in office explain that poll.Kathy and me have gone around about this SH. issue she might win it now but in the long run the hunters will lose out. If 1 farmer shuts his land down because of this passage thats 1 too many farmers. P.S. Whats your braggin about being a marine got too do with Sunday Hunting period.

Glad to see some talk on the subject. 
S-10; Rights are subject to reasonable regulation.  They are not subject to unjust laws.  The Sunday prohibition is just that. 
 
I doubt it would be OK with anyone here if they were told they had the RIGHT to bear arms; except on Sundays.  There must be a valid secular reason to not allow it.
 
That said; lets go through the excuses for not having Sunday hunting one at a time.
1) Hunting isn't safe. Hunting is safer than most other recreational activities.  For example, there are a similar number of motorcyclists in PA.  243 deaths last year from motorcycle accidents. 2 with hunting accidents.  At Yellowstone Natonal Park; last year there were 16 deaths from hiking.  Cheerleading, golf, and football are all ranked higher.  IIRC, hunting comes in at 28th on the list.
There goes that one.  If you are going to ban hunting on Sunday for safety; then lets ban everything else less safe.  We have to make sure the law is fairly applied; afterall.
2) Farmers will post their land.- As a property owner, it is their right to govern what lawful activities take place on their land.  No one is removing that right from them.  I've heard from and gotten donations from several farmers who want to hunt their own land on Sunday.  But, for the sake of argument, lets crunch the numbers anyhow.
The San Julian PSU study said 75% of all farm land was already posted.  That study was ten years ago.  There are 7.1 million acres of farm land in PA.  That leaves just 1,775,000 acres that were not already posted.  We have 5 million acres of public land that would be open to hunting on Sunday if it were passed.  I don't know how you do math, but at a minimum, there would be 3,225,000 acres open for that one day than otherwise would not have been.  When you add the farmers who really do want Sunday hunting, and all of the private forest land that would be open; I'd say that is a major net gain.  And all without removing or prohibiting anyone else's rights.
3) Animals need a day of rest- Anyone using this one makes me giggle.  Yep, I just sit back and picture that deer in the woods kicking back watching TV and maybe sipping a cold one -and not afraid of the bears or the yotes; because Sunday is their day off.
4) Not enough law enforcement- At the February hearing, Carl Roe told the legislature that the WCOs work any of the 7 days a week in hunting season.  Not an issue.
5) Not enough game/too many will be killed
Harvest is driven by a combination of season length and allocation.  We again have Mr. Roe's testimony that the biologists could simply lower allocation to compensate for the additional day of harvest.
6) Non-hunters want a day in the woods without hunters/fear of getting shot- We already covered safety above.  If I'm afraid of clowns, we don't ban the circus from coming to town as a result of someone's irrational fear, do we? Lots of people are afraid of clowns. The fact is, non-hunters never have a day to themselves.  Coyote hunting is lawful 7 days a week.  In fact, its lawful 24 hours a day.  If we can safely hunt coyote at night (and we do)- there goes that one.  Let me also add that our peak hunting season is from September through January, and then again in May.  6 months for each of us seems fair.  When we delve into the low impact seasons, we're really now down to two or three months.  And why would that non-hunter be concerned about what I am doing on my own land anyhow? They don't have my OK to be there unless they ask. Their desires should not infringe on my rights.  Would they like it much if they were given only February, March, April, June, July and August to be in the woods; so hunters too could have their own time in the woods?
For a right to be infringed, there must be a valid secular reason for that infringment.  The migratory bird treaty act was put in place to protect the species you tallked about because they were in decline; S-10.  That is a reasonable restriction of a right- to protect populations in peril.
In fact, there are SCOTUS cases that give states wide latitude when it comes to protecting certain species.
Our case follows the guidelines set by SCOTUS.  We seek only to remove the unreasonable law and place regulatory authority with the wildlife management agency where it belongs.
It will then be up to the agency and biologists to pick what species will be lawful all seven days a week. 
If we re-gain the right to hunt in PA, our other aim; it will be one of the strongest right to hunt languages in the nation.
SECT. 43. The inhabitants of this state shall have liberty to fowl and hunt in seasonable times on the lands they hold, and on all other lands therein not inclosed; and in like manner to fish in all boatable waters, and others not private property
 It is further bolstered by:
SECT. 46. The declaration of rights is hereby declared to be a part of the constitution of this commonwealth, and ought never to be violated on any presence whatever.
We contend that RIGHT has been violated since 1873.  To those of you who want to sit idly by and do nothing to protect and stand up for your rights; by all means, sit there.
I'll do it without you, but I'll do it with the support of every other Pennsylvania citizen who believes in standing up for freedom and liberty.
 

And last; but certainly not least; we have some Federal standing under SCOTUS since Heller and McDonald v. Chicago.
In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) the Court considered the following question: Do D.C. Code Section 7-2502.02(a)(4), which generally bars the registration of handguns; Section 22-4504(a), which bars carrying a pistol without a license; and Section 7-2507.02, which requires that all lawfully owned firearms be kept unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock, violate the Second Amendment rights of individuals who are not affiliated with any state-regulated militia, but who wish to keep handguns and other firearms for private use in their homes?
The Court concluded that the Second Amendment does establish an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense and hunting. The Court concluded that the D.C. gun ban could not stand. At the same time, the Court recognized that the government can regulate gun rights. The Court said its decision should not be interpreted to question the right of government to: prohibit felons and the mentally ill from owning weapons, prohibit guns in schools or public buildings, ban certain categories of guns not commonly used for self-defense, and to establish certain other conditions on gun ownership.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/beararms.htm

Politicos should not be in control of our hunting. The antis will walk in through this door....And then we all are screwed.
 
Normally I would agree with you Bings but in this case you have to remember that it was The PGC's own leglislative leiaison  that took the president of the HSUS through the statehouse and introduced her to the politicans, not the other way around. The PGC is already in bed with the antis.

I do agree the deer numbers in some areas would have to be addressed before any Sunday hunting of deer could be done....
 
 
S-10 I understand your point on the politicos, It's just that I distrust them even more than I do the PGC>>>

All game birds and animals will be affected by your actions if successful-------You are asking for donations from hunters who will be negatively affected by your actions. This apparently misleading statement is off your website.
 

Why should the ban be removed?
Pennsylvania recruits only sixty eight hunters for every one hundred it loses. With the number of hunters in Pennsylvania decreasing, it is important to keep hunting traditions alive by allowing more time for young hunters to get out in the field. Research shows that the best way to recruit new hunters is to have a family member introduce them to hunting. 
The time constraints and complications brought on by modern life have made it difficult for hunters to get young hunters out on the field. With an increase in single parent families and in families with multiple working adults, it is challenging to find time to hunt during the work week. With the current ban, some families are left with just one day a week to hunt. Lifting the ban on Sunday hunting will offer Pennsylvania families an opportunity of a second day to hunt on the weekends if they wish to take it. Hunting is one of the greatest opportunities for families to spend quality time together.
 
I will ask again----how is increasing Sunday hunting going to address the two top reasons hunters are giving up the sport. Or don't you care what happens to the majority of hunters.
We already have the right to hunt and also can hunt some critters on Sunday. Reducing bag limits or season lenghts to allow for adding Sunday to accommadate a few landowners and their friends seems counterproductive to increasing hunter numbers. Most hunters agree. That's why they didn't support it when they had the chance. I'am done on this topic for now.
 

Im all for increasein my time afield hunting on a Sunday would double my time afield the PVC and say Wat I am and not aloud to hunt on certain days but I support it rifle season I do think sound not alow Sunday hunting just my opinion hunting Sunday is 60percent of the reason im buying my Ohio license this year as well as the early teal and extra long archery season but thats just me ,I cant hunt mon-thurs cuz I work second shift unless I wana stay up for 2 days to hunt one( it sucks iv done it multiple times)

Esox,
 
You would be correct.
 
HUSH is not bringing a case against the PGC in the least.  Our case deals specifically with an unlawful prohibition the LEGISLATURE created in 1873.
 
We want that ban removed and the RIGHT to hunt re-instated.
 
The PGC will be free to impliment Sunday Hunting as they see fit. 
SCOTUS has held states game agencies are given wide latitude to regulate hunting.
 
From SCOTUS: 

• Governmental regulation may not violate equal protection guarantees, which provide that "[n]o State shall . . . deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." U.S. Const. amend XIV, § 1; accord S.C. Const. art. I, § 3; Baldwin v. Fish & Game Comm'n of Montana, 436 U.S. 371, 391, 98 S.Ct. 1852, 1864, 56 L.Ed.2d 354, 370 (1978) ("so long as constitutional requirements have been met .... rotection of the wild life of the State is peculiarly within the police power, and the State has great latitude in determining what means are appropriate for its protection"); Be**** v. Sawtelle, 88 P.2d at 1000 (the State may regulate the "taking or killing and use of any and all kinds of game in any part of the state, and during any period, and upon any reasonable terms, so long as such regulation does not deny due process of law and equal protection of law").

 

Sorry. My mistake, I only half read thru the previous posts.
Hopefully some one can answer this then.
If sunday hunting is banned in PA, why are we allowed to run trap lines,shoot crows and coyotes on sundays?
Mike