Beginner: Different technique for slow rod?

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andra2000
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2012/05/04 08:28:03 (permalink)

Beginner: Different technique for slow rod?

Hello. I'll give you some background first and then questions itemized below.

I am a fly tier. I currently fish on ultralight spinning gear because I primarily fish when I'm camping (so can't afford the weight/bulk of 2 fishing rigs on the portages) and I spend about 80% of the time trolling from a canoe and 19% casting in small creeks, almost exclusively for brook and lake trout. When I realized that you could effectively troll with fly gear I decided to streamline my hobbies and am breaking into fly-fishing.

As I expect my small creek fishing % to increase since fly fishing is more efficient for these places and since the rod type for trolling will not be as critical, I got myself a 7 1/2 ft 4wt fiberglass (for durability - I'll be camping/bush-wacking headwaters) slow action rod, a matching DT line and a short, relatively heavy leader (started off as a 9ft 6x but with wind knots and breakoffs...) and I've been trying to teach myself to cast with books and youtube videos.

At the shorter lengths my casting seems to be okay but in desperate need of practice. Once I try to extend it, though, my line loses momentum and starts to fall to the ground before loading the rod for the back/forecast. I've measured this distance four times and it's been almost exactly 4 rod lengths (30ft if its nominal length is accurate) + leader length. I know that slow rods don't cast as far and have heard in general that DT lines don't cast as far (but others have said they'll cast as far just don't shoot as well) so I am wondering if (QUESTION #1) is 30ft + leader as much as I can reasonably expect from my rod? From what I read most of my cast will likely be within these limits, but I'd like to learn the basics as well as I can.

When I do try and muscle the line out further, a couple of things start to happen. One, my line hits my rod/the other part of the loop on the forecast which to me suggests that either I am going past the 10 o'clock position (I'm left-handed - do right-handers think of their back cast as the 2 o'clock?) in order to lengthen the power stroke or the line does start to fall before I start my forecast. I have tried to throw the line higher behind me (stopping closer to 11 o'clock) but that seems to slow the line even more and I end up whip-cracking behind me (from what I've read this means I am starting the forecast to early) or end up with the line falling to the ground behind me without ever straightening out completely so this is not a good solution. (QUESTION #2) does my reasoning above seem to make sense or am I missing something that might help if I understood better.

The other way I can extend my line another 3 or 4 strips (about 6 ft) is to break the rule that every source I have read/watched says is written in stone - thou shalt no bend thy wrist. The funny thing is that this seems successful and also feels more natural (more fluid and less rigid). My loops are a bit looser (about 3ft) but still defined and not an arc. I don't really consider what I do "breaking" my wrist. I'd describe it more as letting my wrist lag behind my arm during the first part of the cast and then towards the end of the cast snapping my wrist to the position that it would have been in had I never let it move in the first place. The starting and ending points remain 10 and 2 o'clock. I look at it as letting the rod preload during the first part of the cast and then applying the maximum speed to the line towards the end. (QUESTION #3) Does the "wrist commandment" apply to a very slow rod or is it more specific to the fast rods that almost everyone uses today? i.e. Does casting a slow rod need a slightly different casting technique?

I think I'll keep it to that as this has gotten pretty long. Thank you in advance for your replies, but in the interests of keeping this thread on topic, please refrain from posting that I should just get another rod or purchase casting lessons. I can appreciate those viewpoints but am choosing to learn to use my current rod as best I can (I built it myself and am a little attached to it)
 
post edited by andra2000 - 2012/05/04 08:29:43
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13 Replies Related Threads

    D-nymph
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/04 10:24:43 (permalink)
    Slow waaaaay down in your casts, you're moving forward too fast before the line has time to unroll behind you. It has everything to do with timing and nothign to do with power or muscle.
    #2
    doubletaper
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/04 11:10:49 (permalink)
    as D-nymph said, timing is the most important factor first off.
    slow rods aren't very good with long casts. the longer the fiberglass rod the easier it will be to make longer casts.
    when it comes to slow fiberglass rods and long casts i find speed is very important. IMO. if your back cast is too slow the fly/line will start to drop more while waiting for the rod to completely load. with the line dropping this will mess up the loop behind you.
    with a quicker back cast you'll develop more speed, and therefore should be able to start your foerward cast sooner without as much line droop.  
    try angling your arm some instead of right over your shoulder.  
    as far as the wrist thing. i use my wrist more on a forward cast at the end for shooting line. also for more distance i'll also extend my arm and shoulder sometimes on the forward cast, almost as if pointing to where i want the fly to go. just remember a little wrist movement at the grip makes a wider rod tip movement, so just a little is enough sometimes.
    there are basic steps to get one started in casting a fly rod. as far as i'm concerned if i can get my fly where i want it consistantly and without problems or fatigue, i don't care what i look like getting it there and i haven't found anyone yet to question my ability.
     
    i fish fiberglass quite often. all my fiberglass rods have different actions and i found when i adjust my stroke with more speed it works better fo me.
     
    graphite rods are completely different.

    http://streamsidetales.bl...015/05/helles-yea.html
    it's not luck
    if success is consistent 





    #3
    casts_by_fly
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/09 06:32:51 (permalink)
    what they said. And, it applies to lower modulus, cheaper graphite blanks too (my 10' 4 wt is the same). They are hard rods to throw well and hard rods to learn to cast with. You need to slow down your stroke and your power application timing is a bit more critical. With my 10'4wt I tend to open the loops a lot (it isn't a tight loop caster) of my own accord and keep the distances sensible (<50'). I built it as a czech nymph rod (which it excels at) but it is a great midge rod too since the long length and slow action cushion 6/7x really well. If you need to cast further, a little wrist flex and some arm drift are helpful in buffering the timing you need.

    That said, for what you're describing, how often do you need to cast 30' of line? That much line plus another 9' of leader is a lot further than you'll cast on most PA streams. I'd check it at 15' of line and 7' of leader to see how it will fish.

    thanks
    rick
    #4
    DarDys
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/09 07:33:20 (permalink)
    ^Agreed.  On most PA trout waters, if you are casting 35+ feet -- leader + flyline -- you are standing in the wrong place.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #5
    schmoe
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/09 21:05:31 (permalink)
    Very true. I've seen a lot of folks happy they can put out 80 feet of line. . .. but I haven't seen 'em catch a bunch of fish. Most of my hook ups are within a couple of yards - Especcialy on small creeks
    #6
    thedrake
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/10 10:33:43 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: D-nymph

    Slow waaaaay down in your casts, you're moving forward too fast before the line has time to unroll behind you. It has everything to do with timing and nothign to do with power or muscle.


    True.

    #7
    dano
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/10 11:30:25 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: andra2000


    I got myself a 7 1/2 ft 4wt fiberglass.. slow action rod, a matching DT line...

    ...My loops are a bit looser (about 3ft) but still defined and not an arc....


    You got some very good advice so far.
    I would quit trying to throw tighter loops, as slow rods in glass and bamboo are better suited for a bit wider loop.
    When I fish boo, I need to relax and throw easy. I try to open the loop up a bit as that's what the rod likes. Slow rods hate overpowering casts.
    Take a Sharpie and scribe the 30ft mark on your line. Always keep that scribed line inside the guides. Practice from short to the 30 ft mark.
    30 feet of line gives you a distance of 7 1/2 rod + 9 leader + 30 feet of line. (= 46 1/2 ft.)
    Once you are proficient, learn to haul on the back cast. Then, learn to haul on the forward cast and shoot a bit of line.
    Save the weight forward lines for the stiff rods. There, you can learn the double haul.
    #8
    DarDys
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/10 12:04:44 (permalink)
    I wish I could learn to double haul.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #9
    thedrake
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/10 12:40:04 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: DarDys

    I wish I could learn to double haul.


    Stop by. We'll work on it.
    #10
    thedrake
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/10 12:59:43 (permalink)
    Andra2000,

    To answer your questions about wrist movement...
    It's ok to put some wrist movement into the cast. In fact, it's important to include some wrist movement. The answer to how much is, very very little. When you apply the wrist movement, you are adding gradual power, and gradual speed to the rod tip. "Gradual" is the key word here. If you put the power and speed into the cast all at once, you overpower your rod, and add a tailing loop.

    http://winstonrods.com/category/resources/casting-clinic.php

    The page from this link contains some links to what I consider the best literature you can read on the topic. Joan covers wrist movement very well. Follow the principles in the clinic and you'll cast any rod well.

    The principles that apply to being a good caster are the same no matter what rod or line you are throwing.

    Also, be carefull about getting casting advice on a forum. You'll end up with advice from guys who are no better than you are at this point.

    #11
    Catchabigone
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/10 19:42:49 (permalink)
    thedrake
    Thanks for the link
    Interesting and helpful reading......Thanks

    Look to the heavens and thank God everyday that hunting is such a grand part of our lives.
    Ted Nugent



     
    #12
    dano
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/11 06:48:02 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: DarDys

    I wish I could learn to double haul.

     
    And you are fishing Tarpon at what distance?
    #13
    DarDys
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    RE: Beginner: Different technique for slow rod? 2012/05/11 08:25:17 (permalink)
    ^Sometimes with the leader in the guides, sometimes at 90 feet of flyline plus the leader, but that is usually into a 15 know wind.
     
    Oh, wait, did I forget to turn on the sarcasm font in the previous post?
     
    Sorry.
     
    Actually my double haul leaves a lot to be desired and I will take the Drake up on lessons.  He makes it look easy while I make it look like way to much work.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #14
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