Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA 
DarDys
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Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
I am pretty sure that most have seen the stories on Nugent pleading guilty to having taken a bear in Alaska after previously wounding one. Apparently their game regs have a provision that wounded = killed (harvested, whatever) so when he wounded a bear it counted toward his bag limit of one, therefore when he actually bagged a bear, he violated the law. From statements he made it appeared that he did not know that was the case, believing that a bagged animal was a bagged animal and a wounded animal that was not recovered did not count toward a bag limit.
Without expressing one's feelings toward Nugent -- he can be a polarizing figure -- and without interjecting one's own ethics into the initial answer, does anyone know if that is the law in PA -- meaning if one wounds and does not recover an animal, does the LAW view that as a bagged animal? If so, does that only pertain to certain species, such as big game, or does it apply across the board?
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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bingsbaits
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 07:34:40
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Only in Alaska.
New reg they just started up there.
If an arrow or bullet even grazes an animal it is yours.
No such law here in pa.
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dpms
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 07:46:47
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Was watching a show called "Wardens" over the weekend. Based in Montana that follows officers on patrol. A officer watched a women shoot at a herd of cow elk. She apparently hit several of them. The officer drove over to meet her and her husband and to follow up on the elk that she hit. They found one laying down and the women finished that cow. The officer then found two more elk that were hit within the herd. He tracked those two elk and then shot both elk. One of the elk was running full tilt across a pasture, the other was hurt pretty good. The officer then charged the women with taking two elk over the limit which was a loss of privledges and hefty charges. Maybe the game laws in Montana are the same? I don't know but it is odd to think that if we would graze a elk with a arrow, then shoot another a week later, we could be charged with a serious violation of a game law.
post edited by dpms - 2012/04/26 07:53:26
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S-10
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 08:04:13
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Nope, no such law in Pa. except on some game preserves. Outfitters in some states and proviences have a clause in their hunting contracts you sign stating you get charged full price with a hit or kill and are done but as Bings stated Alaska is the only place I am aware of that has the law statewide. The one in Montana was for random shooting with no follow up on the shot(or some such variation) as I recall. I think there is a way the PGC could also pinch you in that type case depending on how bad the second animal is hurt.
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retired guy
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 08:17:32
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Gotta wonder if Montana requires you follow up on a shot--not keep at it wounding 3 animals first. Dont think there is a hunter on this board who would do that after hitting the first one. Sounds like the Warden there pinched somebody who really deserved it IMHO- for whatever charge he made. Reports indicated that Nugent had 'grazed' the first Bear which ran off with no blood trail and the arrow was retrieved right where it had been standing. Course that came from his lawyer.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/26 08:18:19
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dpms
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 09:07:01
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
Gotta wonder if Montana requires you follow up on a shot--not keep at it wounding 3 animals first. Dont think there is a hunter on this board who would do that after hitting the first one. Sounds like the Warden there pinched somebody who really deserved it IMHO- for whatever charge he made.
I tend to agree. Pick a animal, shoot at it and follow that one until you are sure that you did not hit it. I guess my hesitation is with the officer killing the elk, then charging the hunter for harvesting over the limit. Especially the one elk that was running full tilt. Maybe it would have lived? Who knows, I was not there. But, the lady had it coming. Poor shot shooting into a herd of elk. The potential for wounding several animals was high.
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RSB
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 09:58:45
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The law in Pennsylvania requires that a hunter make a reasonable effort to recover any wounded game so in some cases a person could be charged for not recovering wounded game. If they then killed additional animals over the limit after not making that required reasonable effort to recover the wounded game they could be charged with an over the limit violation though it is a situation hard to prove and not typically used when looking at possible charges.
Sec. 2305. Retrieval and disposition of killed or wounded game or wildlife.
(a) General rule.--It is unlawful for any person who kills or wounds any game or wildlife while engaged in any activities permitted by this title to refuse or neglect to make a reasonable effort to retrieve, retain or lawfully dispose of such game or wildlife.
(b) Penalty.--A violation of this section is a summary offense of the fourth degree.
As for the charge of shooting too many elk that is something that happens all to often in Pennsylvania’s elk season too. Elk react a lot different after being shot then deer will so all too often a hunt sees and elk, aims and shots it. That elk will often just start to walk away and the hunter then takes aim and fires at one of the other elk thinking they missed the first one. Then after a few minutes both elk are dead on the ground from their lethal wounds.
That is part of the reason a WCO visits every elk site and looks things over before the elk is ultimately deemed to have been a legal kill. Just about every year we have a hunter that shoots two or even three elk by shooting at multiple animals in the same herd. The same situation also applies with bears. Elk and bears both will often have little to no reaction when hit and the hunter often thinks they missed when they didn’t and has actually make a lethal hit.
Since there is no mistake kill available in the law for elk or bear when a hunter shoots more than one they are most likely going to be charged and pay for an illegal kill when they shoot more than one. That is all explained to all Pennsylvania elk hunters in the video they receive and are required to watch before they hunt a Pennsylvania elk. All hunters need to learn to assume that their shot was good and follow up on it before shooting at any additionally animals.
R.S. Bodenhorn
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DarDys
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 12:19:35
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ORIGINAL: RSB
The law in Pennsylvania requires that a hunter make a reasonable effort to recover any wounded game so in some cases a person could be charged for not recovering wounded game. If they then killed additional animals over the limit after not making that required reasonable effort to recover the wounded game they could be charged with an over the limit violation though it is a situation hard to prove and not typically used when looking at possible charges.
Sec. 2305. Retrieval and disposition of killed or wounded game or wildlife.
(a) General rule.--It is unlawful for any person who kills or wounds any game or wildlife while engaged in any activities permitted by this title to refuse or neglect to make a reasonable effort to retrieve, retain or lawfully dispose of such game or wildlife.
(b) Penalty.--A violation of this section is a summary offense of the fourth degree.
As for the charge of shooting too many elk that is something that happens all to often in Pennsylvania’s elk season too. Elk react a lot different after being shot then deer will so all too often a hunt sees and elk, aims and shots it. That elk will often just start to walk away and the hunter then takes aim and fires at one of the other elk thinking they missed the first one. Then after a few minutes both elk are dead on the ground from their lethal wounds.
That is part of the reason a WCO visits every elk site and looks things over before the elk is ultimately deemed to have been a legal kill. Just about every year we have a hunter that shoots two or even three elk by shooting at multiple animals in the same herd. The same situation also applies with bears. Elk and bears both will often have little to no reaction when hit and the hunter often thinks they missed when they didn’t and has actually make a lethal hit.
Since there is no mistake kill available in the law for elk or bear when a hunter shoots more than one they are most likely going to be charged and pay for an illegal kill when they shoot more than one. That is all explained to all Pennsylvania elk hunters in the video they receive and are required to watch before they hunt a Pennsylvania elk. All hunters need to learn to assume that their shot was good and follow up on it before shooting at any additionally animals.
R.S. Bodenhorn
So, as an example, one shoots at a deer and wounds it, but after a due diligence effort is made, the animal is not recovered for whatever reason -- loss of trail, goes onto land that cannot be accessed, crosses a body of water that the hunter cannot, etc. -- are you saying that in PA, the hunter, legally, not ethically, can harvest another deer and still be within the bag limit if said bag limit is one animal?
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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worm_waster
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 15:56:35
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ORIGINAL: DarDys
ORIGINAL: RSB
The law in Pennsylvania requires that a hunter make a reasonable effort to recover any wounded game so in some cases a person could be charged for not recovering wounded game. If they then killed additional animals over the limit after not making that required reasonable effort to recover the wounded game they could be charged with an over the limit violation though it is a situation hard to prove and not typically used when looking at possible charges.
Â
Sec. 2305. Retrieval and disposition of killed or wounded game or wildlife.
(a) General rule.--It is unlawful for any person who kills or wounds any game or wildlife while engaged in any activities permitted by this title to refuse or neglect to make a reasonable effort to retrieve, retain or lawfully dispose of such game or wildlife.
(b) Penalty.--A violation of this section is a summary offense of the fourth degree.
Â
As for the charge of shooting too many elk that is something that happens all to often in Pennsylvania’s elk season too. Elk react a lot different after being shot then deer will so all too often a hunt sees and elk, aims and shots it. That elk will often just start to walk away and the hunter then takes aim and fires at one of the other elk thinking they missed the first one. Then after a few minutes both elk are dead on the ground from their lethal wounds.
Â
That is part of the reason a WCO visits every elk site and looks things over before the elk is ultimately deemed to have been a legal kill. Just about every year we have a hunter that shoots two or even three elk by shooting at multiple animals in the same herd. The same situation also applies with bears. Elk and bears both will often have little to no reaction when hit and the hunter often thinks they missed when they didn’t and has actually make a lethal hit.
Â
Since there is no mistake kill available in the law for elk or bear when a hunter shoots more than one they are most likely going to be charged and pay for an illegal kill when they shoot more than one. That is all explained to all Pennsylvania elk hunters in the video they receive and are required to watch before they hunt a Pennsylvania elk. All hunters need to learn to assume that their shot was good and follow up on it before shooting at any additionally animals.
 R.S. Bodenhorn        Â
So, as an example, one shoots at a deer and wounds it, but after a due diligence effort is made, the animal is not recovered for whatever reason -- loss of trail, goes onto land that cannot be accessed, crosses a body of water that the hunter cannot, etc. -- are you saying that in PA, the hunter, legally, not ethically, can harvest another deer and still be within the bag limit if said bag limit is one animal?
Using the information listed above, I would say yes.w_w.
If it has fins and gills, I'm there.
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RSB
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 16:42:25
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ORIGINAL: DarDys
ORIGINAL: RSB
The law in Pennsylvania requires that a hunter make a reasonable effort to recover any wounded game so in some cases a person could be charged for not recovering wounded game. If they then killed additional animals over the limit after not making that required reasonable effort to recover the wounded game they could be charged with an over the limit violation though it is a situation hard to prove and not typically used when looking at possible charges.
Sec. 2305. Retrieval and disposition of killed or wounded game or wildlife.
(a) General rule.--It is unlawful for any person who kills or wounds any game or wildlife while engaged in any activities permitted by this title to refuse or neglect to make a reasonable effort to retrieve, retain or lawfully dispose of such game or wildlife.
(b) Penalty.--A violation of this section is a summary offense of the fourth degree.
As for the charge of shooting too many elk that is something that happens all to often in Pennsylvania’s elk season too. Elk react a lot different after being shot then deer will so all too often a hunt sees and elk, aims and shots it. That elk will often just start to walk away and the hunter then takes aim and fires at one of the other elk thinking they missed the first one. Then after a few minutes both elk are dead on the ground from their lethal wounds.
That is part of the reason a WCO visits every elk site and looks things over before the elk is ultimately deemed to have been a legal kill. Just about every year we have a hunter that shoots two or even three elk by shooting at multiple animals in the same herd. The same situation also applies with bears. Elk and bears both will often have little to no reaction when hit and the hunter often thinks they missed when they didn’t and has actually make a lethal hit.
Since there is no mistake kill available in the law for elk or bear when a hunter shoots more than one they are most likely going to be charged and pay for an illegal kill when they shoot more than one. That is all explained to all Pennsylvania elk hunters in the video they receive and are required to watch before they hunt a Pennsylvania elk. All hunters need to learn to assume that their shot was good and follow up on it before shooting at any additionally animals.
R.S. Bodenhorn
So, as an example, one shoots at a deer and wounds it, but after a due diligence effort is made, the animal is not recovered for whatever reason -- loss of trail, goes onto land that cannot be accessed, crosses a body of water that the hunter cannot, etc. -- are you saying that in PA, the hunter, legally, not ethically, can harvest another deer and still be within the bag limit if said bag limit is one animal?
In Pennsylvania once you have made and exhausted all reasonable efforts to recover any wounded game you can resume your hunt for legal game. The question and definition of what all constitutes a reasonable effort to recover though is rather subjective and open for interpretation. Not that it has even been a major issue it is still subjective enough that I would expect a person to pretty much exhaust as possible or at least likely attempts at recovery. I know people who have gotten chest waders and even boats to cross waterways to continue on the trail of wounded big game. I once shot a deer that make it almost to the opposite side of a rain-swelled creek before it expired. I watched it floating along the opposite side and was running trying to keep up as I hoped it would get lodged on something. I was two miles down stream and almost to the Clarion River before it finally hung up. I ended up taking most of my clothes off and wading out to recover it. Then I had a super long drag to get it out to a road. I have also lost a few deer that simply couldn’t be recovered because they were on bare ground and no long bleeding. After hours of walking circles and out every trail in the area looking for sign it is sometimes evident that you just aren’t going to find the deer. I, and I suspect you too have, had a pheasant go down and even with a good dog simply never recovered the wounded bird. Sometimes I simply can’t believe we can’t find it but sometimes we don’t. In the case of pheasants I usually count those toward my limit but there is nothing in the law that requires me to do so. I think seriously conscientious hunters know when they have truly made and exhausted all reasonable efforts to recover. In Pennsylvania that is all that is legally required before you resume your hunting and attempts to harvest and recover your legal limit. R.S. Bodenhorn
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DarDys
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/26 18:29:56
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^Thank you.
Yes, there have been some birds that just were not recovered. And yes, I counted them toward the bag limit.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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treesparrow
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/28 20:41:26
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I have personaly grappled with this set of law vs. moral realm more than any other issue in my hunting and fishing persuits. Let me first
state that I believe game laws are needed because there needs to be an imposed limit on any persons harvest. Which then gives everyone the
same oportunity to harvest. However many laws are imposed that go counter to other laws and moral obligations. Lets say I was to wound a Deer
on a Saturday now if I call a game warden I guess I am allowed to trail it Sunday. And lets just say I find it and it is mortally wounded
I am not legally allowed to go get a firearm and humanly kill it as I feel morally required to do.I never kill Muskys however I hook a Musky deep in the throat right up through the brain-spine and it is dead. I love eating fish however it is out of season. Im fishing perch in Erie in deep water and hook some to small, edible sized but legally to small. Out of 60 feet of water we all know they will not live.I could think of more examples. I know what I have done in the past and RSB may not have liked my decisions. I very seldom fill my limit in game couple rabbits makes a nice meal etc. Never use all my tags for deer I buy extra tags to have the oportunity to hunt other areas. I like two deer in the freezer each year. If my son were to shoot them I hunt mature bucks only. If the grouse population is down I do not hunt them and the same goes for other game. Yes Dardys I impose the same wounded it counts kind of phylosophy.In keeping the self and man made rules my only remorse is toward the life I have taken.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/28 21:02:34
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treesparrow wrote === Im fishing perch in Erie in deep water and hook some to small, edible sized but legally to small. I have only been fishing for perch in lake erie for a couple years now, so I may not know all the rules/laws.. So .. what is a ""legally too small"" perch ?? I did not think there was a size limit.. only a creel limit of 30 per person ???? Plus on the "head boat" I have been out on a couple times = you are not allowed to throw back "dinks"(small ones) Am I missing something ???????
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treesparrow
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/28 21:47:12
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Used to have to be 8" Doc. Maybe it changed.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/28 22:59:19
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8 inches ?? ... I sure have kept PLENTY under 8 inches ?????
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bingsbaits
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/29 08:39:24
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Head boat Captain will play he11 trying to make me keep 6 inch perch. The gulls have to eat too..... 
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/29 08:53:21
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According to what I was told == There is no size limit on perch, therefore every one is legal to catch and keep if one wants to. As mentioned bringing them up from 50 feet will more than likely kill them and if thrown back in they will die... and according to the PFBC one must release (throw back) only fish that will survive, other wise they could as KEPT (killed) fish towards a limit the limit is 30 perch so throwing back one that will die counts towards the 30 perch you caught or killed... On the John Edwards if you throw a dink back and get caught you will be warned not to do it ... then if you do it again that trip will be your last one.... So rather than count "dinks" that I would throw back towards my total limit I just keep them... one small bit of perch is better than none at all in my book.. As for playing hell.. I'm not a tough guy... and it's his boat so he gets to make the rules... and I am sure he would not want to get in trouble for having folks breaking laws by throwing back "dinks" and not counting them towards a limit. It's sort of like the banana rule.. some captains will not allow you on the boat with bananas.. would you play hell with them for that rule too ????? 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/04/29 08:55:02
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bingsbaits
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/29 09:00:49
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I'd hide it in a peanut Butter samich....
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treesparrow
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/29 20:47:38
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I have not been to Erie in a few years however when I used to fish it I thought there used to be a size limit of 8".
What do you do when you and friend have had a great day with the dogs and you each have harvested your two Ringnecks.
On the way back to the truck the lab fetches a broke wing bird and has further roughed it up. What do you do now?
Game lands no other hunters around to give one to. Nice long jaunt back to the vehicle and is RSB or in my district
Mr Bimber waiting at the vehicle. We didn't shoot this one orficer sir honest.
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S-10
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/29 21:02:09
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Unless it's changed there is a size limit Jan-Mar but no size limit the rest of the year.
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RSB
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/30 14:42:08
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ORIGINAL: treesparrow
I have not been to Erie in a few years however when I used to fish it I thought there used to be a size limit of 8".
What do you do when you and friend have had a great day with the dogs and you each have harvested your two Ringnecks.
On the way back to the truck the lab fetches a broke wing bird and has further roughed it up. What do you do now?
Game lands no other hunters around to give one to. Nice long jaunt back to the vehicle and is RSB or in my district
Mr Bimber waiting at the vehicle. We didn't shoot this one orficer sir honest.
That happens sometimes. The best thing to do, if it is to badly injured to release, is to dispatch it, field dress it and place it in the fork of a tree or shrub, near where the dog recovered it, but where it can be recovered by the WCO. Then when you get to the parking lot you tell the WCO you expect is waiting there what happened and where to find the bird. If the WCO isn’t there then you call the Regional Office, explain to them what happened and then are guided by the advice they provide. R.S. Bodenhorn
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worm_waster
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/30 17:39:26
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ORIGINAL: RSB
ORIGINAL: treesparrow
I have not been to Erie in a few years however when I used to fish it I thought there used to be a size limit of 8".
What do you do when you and friend have had a great day with the dogs and you each have harvested your two Ringnecks.
On the way back to the truck the lab fetches a broke wing bird and has further roughed it up. What do you do now?
Game lands no other hunters around to give one to. Nice long jaunt back to the vehicle and is RSB or in my district
Mr Bimber waiting at the vehicle. We didn't shoot this one orficer sir honest.
That happens sometimes. The best thing to do, if it is to badly injured to release, is to dispatch it, field dress it and place it in the fork of a tree or shrub, near where the dog recovered it, but where it can be recovered by the WCO. Then when you get to the parking lot you tell the WCO you expect is waiting there what happened and where to find the bird. If the WCO isn’t there then you call the Regional Office, explain to them what happened and then are guided by the advice they provide.
Â
R.S. Bodenhorn
Often I hear about dogs grabbing freshly stocked pheasants (stupid, not previously crippled birds) and retrieving them to the hunter. What is the legality on that?w_w.
If it has fins and gills, I'm there.
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treesparrow
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/30 17:50:27
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Thank y0u RSB. Sounds like a plan. And W.W. I am clueless on that one to. My Brother went out hunting Roosters quite a few years ago and his dogs picked up two before he even got a shot that day,so he just called it a day. They were winged birds.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/04/30 17:55:48
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hey tree.. just think your brother saved the cost of at least two shells... LOL... funny story THANKS !!!!
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DarDys
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/05/01 07:44:10
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ORIGINAL: worm_waster
ORIGINAL: RSB
ORIGINAL: treesparrow
I have not been to Erie in a few years however when I used to fish it I thought there used to be a size limit of 8".
What do you do when you and friend have had a great day with the dogs and you each have harvested your two Ringnecks.
On the way back to the truck the lab fetches a broke wing bird and has further roughed it up. What do you do now?
Game lands no other hunters around to give one to. Nice long jaunt back to the vehicle and is RSB or in my district
Mr Bimber waiting at the vehicle. We didn't shoot this one orficer sir honest.
That happens sometimes. The best thing to do, if it is to badly injured to release, is to dispatch it, field dress it and place it in the fork of a tree or shrub, near where the dog recovered it, but where it can be recovered by the WCO. Then when you get to the parking lot you tell the WCO you expect is waiting there what happened and where to find the bird. If the WCO isn’t there then you call the Regional Office, explain to them what happened and then are guided by the advice they provide.
Â
R.S. Bodenhorn
Often I hear about dogs grabbing freshly stocked pheasants (stupid, not previously crippled birds) and retrieving them to the hunter. What is the legality on that?w_w.
While highly trained pointers would never, ever, do that (wink, wink), those pesky flushing dogs do -- in which case, if it were my hunt, they count toward the bag limit. If for some reason a pointing dog did that, it is back to "whoa" training over live birds for them.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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World Famous
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/05/01 15:01:54
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My beagles would eat them if they caughtum and we weren't fast enough to grab them.  ..WF
post edited by World Famous - 2012/05/01 15:02:24
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treesparrow
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RE: Does wounded = harvested (killed, whatever) in PA
2012/05/02 21:05:39
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Dardys my brother would definately count those birds toward his limit, and his dogs were labs. World Famous When we were kids back 40+ years ago
we had an excellant Brittany and we killed lots of game over her. We spent years destroying her natural skills. She was soft mouthed and we killed lots and lots of grouse over her. Well one day I just had to kill this squirel and it came down alive. Chrisy was making a beautiful retrieve until that squirel turned around and bit her in the side of her head. From then on it was a race to the game if Chrisy won she killed whatever it
was even if already dead. crunch crunch crunch. She ran and hunted so much on her own she unlearned the pointing, I dont think our love of rabbit helped either. She was still sharp though and minded hand signals and ranged short if we kept her in. However she had a great nose and once making game which she just about only flushed, it was hard to keep up with her. However we were young and it worked well we killed lots of game. Now keep in mind that the first couple years she pointed and retrieved like it came natural. Now her last years she took to not even retrieving to us she killed the bird and if not hungry she would start digging a hole,and if hungry well you guess. She was still the best dog I ever owned. When she was about six years old and I had her at my camp for Turkey season she smashed through the back window and droped 8 feet to the ground because she figgured we were going hunting without her. Her passion for the hunt exhilerated all who hunted with her.
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