ORIGINAL: Cold

I find the term "bait dunker" completely derogatory and not necessary at all.

Why? it's an accurate term. Bait-dunkers put bait on a hook and dunk it into the water. How else should one describe one who dunks bait that would be more accurate than 'bait-dunker'?

Regarding the litter, when you see trash near any fishing area, how many worm tubs, plastic mealworm/waxworm/maggot cups, snelled hook packs, and powerbait/salmon egg/cheese jars do you see? Now how many tippet spools, leader bags, and gink bottles do you see? Unless you fly fish (or know someone that does) you probably dont even know what those things look like, because you dont see them littered.

That's not to say all bait-dunkers are littering slobs, but more littering slobs are bait dunkers than are fluff-chuckers.

You're missing the point with the bait dunker terms. As far as the litter comment you made please go back and read my original post. If what I was saying isn't clear to you please feel free to PM me and I'll gladly explain. I was by no means blaming fly fisherman for the litter.

For those that are against DHALO areas, are you also against archery deer season; muzzleloader season, both early inline and the late traditional season; and the youth and senior early deer seasons, plus all of the special youth seasons?  You should be.  They are as much a special interest as the DHLAO's.

When I started reading the OP, I was excited that they might finally clarify the types of lures that one could use in a DHALO area (i.e., no, you can't use Poweranything, Gulp, Swallow, Lather, Rinse, Repeat...)

Then I kept reading. This sucks.

Sevenmile, you gotta stop, Man. Seriously. Just stop. It's not about the GD "bait dunkers," so please stop telling them to move to the back of the bus.

I can see DT's point about how opening an area to bait fishing will breed more litter. I'm not calling bait fishermen slovenly bums who don't give two shats and a dam about keeping things clean, and I don't think DT is, either. If I had a piece of land that was opened to a particular type of fishing, some would opt out and the land would be less trafficked. Less vistors = less POTENTIAL for litter = less actual litter. The corolary is also true: more traffic = more potential for litter = more actual litter, and I'm probably going to post my land. Now nobody can fish.

ORIGINAL: Cold
Every angler abides by a whole battery of rules and regulations regardless of where they fish: seasons, limits, acceptable gear, minimum lengths, etc. In the DHALOs there's just a few extra rules, or a few of the rules are slightly different. It's not that the fisherman themself is unwelcome, but rather certain methods. Any angler that allows himself to be defined by a method of fishing deserves to feel unwelcome on certain water.

Truer than true. For all the water that is open to fish in this Commonwealth, a small fraction of it is designated as "Special Reg" water. Fish it or not - your choice, but don't paint yourself a victim, and please don't whine that you've been stopped at the door because you didn't have the right stamp on your hand, or your name's not on the list. There's no velvet rope and red carpet on these waters, Ladies and Gentlemen, and there is no secret handshake.

ORIGINAL: D-nymph

ORIGINAL: dano

What about us spear fishermen?
Why can't I spear trout in approved trout waters?
I think it's a joke that some of the bait guys think they are being discriminated against by not being able to fish DHALO areas.Try fishing those waters using the true and tried traditional method of spearing.
I do have a problem recently with some of these Neanderthal types walking in and clubbing fish.
Just because a caveman can do it, doesn't mean it's right.

The biggest complaint I have heard, repeatedly, from bait fishermen about the DHALO areas is this: Some of them feel that the DHALO areas are "the best waters in the state". Literally. Even though that is hardly true. They believe that the state has taken the best sections of the best streams and set them aside for their fly and spinner chucking buddies, intentionally excluding the wax worm guy from the best water in the state.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, some of the DHALO waters are that at the request of the landowner, yes? Some of them the landowner told teh PFBC, make my land DHALO, or i'm closing it to the public, no trespassing. Correct?

Not all of them, obvsiously, but some of them.

And they really are not the best waters in the state. Anyone who thinks that doesn't get out much.

For anyone who believes these are the best trout waters in the state should check out the Sandy Lick DHALO in Clearfield County!

ddo these guys not dunk bait when they fish the lake for perch

i didnt know fly line sunk 60+'

I wouldn't expect you to.

The litter issue is a pretty simple one. Most people who are novice fisherman or don't fish very often, use bait. People who don't fish very often or are ignorant to etiquette on streams are less likely to care about the environment in which they are using. And there you have the bait dunkers litter more opinion. People who care about their fishery don't litter. Bait or fly.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: not all bait-dunkers are slobs, but the vast majority of slobs are bait-dunkers. Novice or not has nothing to do with it, as there's plenty of considerate newbies, and plenty of old duuds that are filthy pigs. It is an observable fact that bait-dunking produces more trash than other forms of fishing as well.

Let's communicate without thinking that another is trying to diss them. Anyone can use the term "bait dunker" in the most general sense to describe someone using bait. That doesn't mean that they're rudely stereotyping or insulting. We've all heard em. Bait dunkers are slobs. har har. Fly guys are snobs. blah blah. Baitcasters are for pros. yak yak. I think of it like being at a comedy club. If you're easily offended then maybe you shouldn't be here. Some of the funniest race jokes that I've heard were about white people and I'm white. They're funny because they're true.

Truthfully, I have seen more bait fishing litter than anything else my whole life. Including lure packages. Bait fishing also runs the risk of fatal hooking and sees more take home limits. I bait fish for Catfish more than anything. Making me primarily a bait dunker. The only difference in the scenario is that I'm not regularly bait fishing for a species that has enough trouble surviving as it is. Catfish populations will always be there. Trout populations get stocked and obliterated yearly. By all means bait fish the open creek. Just leave the project waters alone. I'd like to see how well and for how long those fish can adapt.

FTR, I do plan to write the Commission to whatever avail.

ORIGINAL: SevenMileShowcase

Fshrmn, just stop, get on a trout stream before you start spouting out about em dying. Plenty of fish hold over if the bottom isnt filled with silt. Maybe you should leave Latrobe and find some quality water.

Huh?

ORIGINAL: JerryS

Not all fly fisherman are snobs, but the vast majority of snobs are fly fisherman.

I know that I am better at almost everything that I do, than most people. I am better looking than 99% of you guys on this board, and my wife is out of my league. I should probably fly fish more.

Let's just make those section C&R release only, all tackle..
I don't care WHO fished these sections, but would like to see some trout available for all to fish for all year....

I think there should only be two kinds of special regulation sections of trout stream in PA. One would be catch and release all tackle, the other would be trophy trout all tackle with limited harvest size, a 2 fish limit, and no date restrictions. The Benner Springs catch and release all tackle area on Spring Creek has no problems with litter or killing fish.

Allowing people to keep trout earlier out of the DHALO sections is absurd in my opinion and defeats the whole point, they shouldn't even have DHALO on streams that can't support trout year round.

ORIGINAL: Porktown

There is a reason that I don't fly fished more often. All of my friends would hate me, for their wifes drooling over me. It would be impossible backcasting, with the amount of women getting in the way. You ugly guys, really don't know how good you have it.

Welcome to my world, dude.

It's a heavy burden, indeed.

than maybe some day their head will swell and become a litter free, C&R, cigar smoking, scotch drinking, dry fly uber snob fly fisherman!

Let's not get carried away. I'd settle for any progression beyond the knuckle-draggin mouth-breather stage.

ORIGINAL: bulldog1

Keep evolving duuds, eventually you'll progress beyond the "water slapper" stage and get to the line counting troller stage... remember chicks dig boats (unless you're married to them)...

Married to the chick or the boat?