DHALOs 
dano
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What about us spear fishermen?
Why can't I spear trout in approved trout waters?
I think it's a joke that some of the bait guys think they are being discriminated against by not being able to fish DHALO areas.
Try fishing those waters using the true and tried traditional method of spearing.
I do have a problem recently with some of these Neanderthal types walking in and clubbing fish.
Just because a caveman can do it, doesn't mean it's right.
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doubletaper
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Ok,
The bait VS non debate aside. How many of you are going to spend the same effort you have spent posting here, firing an e-mail to your commissioner prior to the meetings? Or expressing your views to the PF&BC during the public comment period, should this make it to the formal rulemaking process?
if you know of a club or org. around here that is having a PF&BC rep. present let me know. that way i'll know my voice will be heard. sending a letter or e-mail doesn't guarantee they'll read either. i just would like to know who will be responsible for any negative outcome from landowners?
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Grendel
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Fishing is for everyone...period. Makes me sick to think that some believe that they are better because of how they fish and what they use. So if I come from the city I an inferior to some hick? Lol - what a pathetic stance...
The strength of a person isn't measured by the muscle in their arm or how tall they stand, but rather, by the amount of knowledge and area of versatility they can cover. CM ~ 1987 Not a fan of Burgh teams. Get over it...
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spoonchucker
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"if you know of a club or org. around here that is having a PF&BC rep. present let me know."
Between now & Wednesday, no. If I hear of any,I'll let you know. If you belong to the local TU chapter, perhaps a few phone calls to see if someone could travel to Spippensburgh for the meeting?
" sending a letter or e-mail doesn't guarantee they'll read either. "
The odds are considerabley better, than that of these posts being read by a commissioner. Plus, if & when it becomes a formal proposal ( it's just an agenda item at present ), it will be opened to the public comment period. Those comments are indeed read.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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doubletaper
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good subject to bring up at the NWPFA meeting.
Fishing is for everyone...period. Makes me sick to think that some believe that they are better because of how they fish and what they use. So if I come from the city I an inferior to some hick? Lol - what a pathetic stance...
i agree, those proud overachieving bait dunkers have no respect for the artificial lure and fly fishermen. they should be ashamed of themselves.
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spoonchucker
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While you ( and others ) are certainly skilled, perhaps an "overachiever" when it comes to fly fishing. Seriously, I'm clumsier than a drunken ape at it, and still catch plenty of fish, even the magical Trout. It ain't THAT special 
post edited by spoonchucker - 2012/04/09 13:24:03
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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TastyTrout
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Fishing is for everyone...period. Makes me sick to think that some believe that they are better because of how they fish and what they use. So if I come from the city I an inferior to some hick? Lol - what a pathetic stance...
+1000
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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D-nymph
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What about us spear fishermen?
Why can't I spear trout in approved trout waters?
I think it's a joke that some of the bait guys think they are being discriminated against by not being able to fish DHALO areas.Try fishing those waters using the true and tried traditional method of spearing.
I do have a problem recently with some of these Neanderthal types walking in and clubbing fish.
Just because a caveman can do it, doesn't mean it's right.
The biggest complaint I have heard, repeatedly, from bait fishermen about the DHALO areas is this: Some of them feel that the DHALO areas are "the best waters in the state". Literally. Even though that is hardly true. They believe that the state has taken the best sections of the best streams and set them aside for their fly and spinner chucking buddies, intentionally excluding the wax worm guy from the best water in the state. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, some of the DHALO waters are that at the request of the landowner, yes? Some of them the landowner told teh PFBC, make my land DHALO, or i'm closing it to the public, no trespassing. Correct? Not all of them, obvsiously, but some of them. And they really are not the best waters in the state. Anyone who thinks that doesn't get out much.
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doubletaper
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The biggest complaint I have heard, repeatedly, from bait fishermen about the DHALO areas is this: Some of them feel that the DHALO areas are "the best waters in the state". Literally. Even though that is hardly true. They believe that the state has taken the best sections of the best streams and set them aside for their fly and spinner chucking buddies, intentionally excluding the wax worm guy from the best water in the state.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, some of the DHALO waters are that at the request of the landowner, yes? Some of them the landowner told teh PFBC, make my land DHALO, or i'm closing it to the public, no trespassing. Correct?
Not all of them, obvsiously, but some of them.
And they really are not the best waters in the state. Anyone who thinks that doesn't get out much.
correct. some landowners only opened up their property to DHALO of FFO areas. open this to bait and i would bet you would see these posted 'no trespassing'. this was discussed before some time ago, as everything has been. clubs and groups of people got together to make a lot of these project areas more accessible and added stream improvements on their own time and partially funded by them. open this up to all fishing and we'll see what happens. can anyone give me a group or club of dedicated bait dunkers who have done the same to trout waters open to everyone? if the bait dunkers want their own section of stream, go for it, i have no complaints. i think pinners should have their own 75 yard length of water for steelhead away from the rest of us  and keep them there. but that's just me.
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D-nymph
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correct. some landowners only opened up their property to DHALO of FFO areas. open this to bait and i would bet you would see these posted 'no trespassing'.
this was discussed before some time ago, as everything has been. clubs and groups of people got together to make a lot of these project areas more accessible and added stream improvements on their own time and partially funded by them. open this up to all fishing and we'll see what happens.
can anyone give me a group or club of dedicated bait dunkers who have done the same to trout waters open to everyone?
if the bait dunkers want their own section of stream, go for it, i have no complaints.
i think pinners should have their own 75 yard length of water for steelhead away from the rest of us and keep them there.
but that's just me.
http://www.tap-pa.org/ Dear Fellow Sportsman,
A small group of live-bait fishermen met on March 21, 1994, to discuss the present situation of the trout fisheries of Pennsylvania. With that stated, the group is now formally known as "The Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania" (T.A.P.).
We as an organization are not opposed to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission or any other angling organization. It is in our interest as live-bait fishermen to have a voice in what is said and done with the trout waters of Pennsylvania. It is a major concern to this group that we are losing some of the best trout waters in this State to: Fly-Fishing Projects, Delayed Harvest Fly Fishing Only, No Harvest Fly-Fishing Only, Catch and Release, Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only, Trophy Trout Projects, and Limestone Springs Wild Trout Waters.
There's a serious problem arising along the streams and lakes that bless our State. The special interest groups whose financial dealings run deep in our State are receiving more areas of streams and lakes posted for artificial use only. Future generations of live-bait fishermen may not have a place to fish if new sections or whole streams are closed down to live-bait fishermen. Young fishermen use live bait the first years of their angling lives. If this current trend of closing waters to live bait continues, where will these kids fish?
The Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania is not a "kill all you can catch" organization. This is in large percentage catch and release group. There's nothing wrong with keeping a few fish for supper. Although not know as a fact, but it's safe to say, live-bait fishermen buy more licenses and trout stamps than any other angling group!
This grass-roots organization is in its infancy stages but already there's talk of a few projects and programs in the future.
T.A.P. will Promote, Preserve, and Protect the Trout Waters of Pennsylvania.
If you wish to help and support us, the membership application is available on this Web Site. Also, we have posted the T.A.P. Statement of Objectives and Purpose, the By-Laws, our current Newsletter (and prior Newsletters), the 2001 T.A.P. activities schedule, and newspaper articles about T.A.P. 
post edited by D-nymph - 2012/04/09 15:12:46
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SevenMileShowcase
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Oh my god, I would love to know the amount of water they have over us. (approved to FFO's and DALOS)
East side love is living on the west end
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doubletaper
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it's good to see some bait dunkers got together for the good of trout fishing. i have to disagree with their propaganda! there are only a few counties with more than two non-bait fishing projects. some counties only have one considering ALL the trout streams in such counties. also the project areas are only a portion of the stream and to say these sections are the 'primest' sections is argumental at the least!! It is a major concern to this group that we are losing some of the best trout waters in this State to: Fly-Fishing Projects, Delayed Harvest Fly Fishing Only, No Harvest Fly-Fishing Only, Catch and Release, Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only, Trophy Trout Projects, and Limestone Springs Wild Trout Waters.
There's a serious problem arising along the streams and lakes that bless our State. The special interest groups whose financial dealings run deep in our State are receiving more areas of streams and lakes posted for artificial use only. Future generations of live-bait fishermen may not have a place to fish if new sections or whole streams are closed down to live-bait fishermen. Young fishermen use live bait the first years of their angling lives. If this current trend of closing waters to live bait continues, where will these kids fish? 1.lawrence county,the section of neshennock creek that is project water is not the primest section that would hold trout or food of the many miles of open water in my opinion. 2. venango county, quite a few fishermen that fish Oil Creek will tell you there are more productive primer waters and better hatches on oil than the project area! 3. potter county, when i go to kettle creek i would much rather fish the open water for trout than the project water. why? better hatches and primer water than the project water. 4. mercer, cool spring project water might be the best section only because of the man power it took and takes to keep this area in good trout condition but not the primest trout waters in the county! 5. jefferson county, north fork of red bank the primest trout waters? who are they kidding! this is just a small sample to negate T.A.P.'s claim! can someone tell me what counties in the state recved MORE streams posted for artificial use only? are these sections on private property or public property? The special interest groups whose financial dealings run deep in our State are receiving more areas of streams and lakes posted for artificial use only. who's propaganda is running deep with this quote? will never happen! Future generations of live-bait fishermen may not have a place to fish if new sections or whole streams are closed down to live-bait fishermen. what a crock!
post edited by doubletaper - 2012/04/09 17:58:54
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Cold
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First: Seven Mile, I thought you said in the other thread that you were done with this place. Please leave.
Second: I still don't understand what's stopping the bait guy from tying on a @#$% rooster tail and fishing the DHALOs now. Every angler abides by a whole battery of rules and regulations regardless of where they fish: seasons, limits, acceptable gear, minimum lengths, etc. In the DHALOs there's just a few extra rules, or a few of the rules are slightly different. It's not that the fisherman themself is unwelcome, but rather certain methods. Any angler that allows himself to be defined by a method of fishing deserves to feel unwelcome on certain water. If they decided to make some sections Delayed Harvest Bait Only, I wouldn't fish them, but I'd be reasonable enough to understand that it was my choice not to fish, not the PFBC's choice to 'banish' me.
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World Famous
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I would always inject air into my crawlers and call them a #14 Adams.....WF
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krott243
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I found rooster tail packages all over at drakes well last week. I picked them up, slob spinner fisherman
The Lord has blessed us all today... It's just that he has been particularly good to me.
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Livinfishin
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I caught 47 trout in the months of January and February before they stocked.
Caught almost all them on midges and sucker spawns in the Buffalo DALO.
That could be because Buffalo Creek is stocked in October every year as well.
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SevenMileShowcase
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Ya, but I also catch em before that, in August and September.
East side love is living on the west end
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Livinfishin
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ORIGINAL: Livinfishin
MOST of the stocked waters with exception to spring fed mountain streams in the center of the state cannot support year round trout popuatlions of significance anyway so bait fisherman aren't destroying anything by taking trout that would die off. Are you telling me that fisherman taking trout with bait on the DHALO sections of Pine Creek, Deer Creek, Buffalo Creek or Dutch Fork Creek are going to be taking trout that would survive the summer heat? I don't think so. I think this is a reasonable regulation and some of these arguments overlook the obvious fact that these fish can be taken with spinners anyway so why not allow someone take them with bait? Also, I cannot understand some of these arguments knocking bait fisherman when it is MUCH easier to fish a pool with someone using powerbait as opposed to someone chucking a rooster tail from one end of the pool to the other.
ha, ha! that's a good laugh. do you fish any creeks year round. what about the delayed harvest/FFO areas?
any of you bait only guys want to bet the project areas will be littered more after the bait guys show up?
i can see more property owners posting their land, that project area runs through, after the first year or so of this.
we thought the neshannock creek project area was crowded at times now.
i can't wait to see these bait guys helping out clearing brush and making the project areas more accessable.
If you read my post which you clearly didn't I said I wouldn't support this if FFO areas were included because most of them can support trout year round. Dunbar Creek, Clear Shade Creek being two examples. And I never said that ALL DHALO areas don't hold fish year-round, I said a majority probably do not. Meadow Run does, Loyahanna Creek does, but I can name a bunch that do not. I also love how you paint all bait fisherman with such a broad brush which is akin to someone saying all fly fisherman are elitist egghead stuck up snobs. I find litter in DHALO areas all the time, areas that are absent of bait fisherman. BTW I do both. I love to fish Dunbar Creek with egg patterns and streamers, but there are times when I fish bait sections and will out fish almost anyone there with single eggs.
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Livinfishin
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Fishing is for everyone...period. Makes me sick to think that some believe that they are better because of how they fish and what they use. So if I come from the city I an inferior to some hick? Lol - what a pathetic stance...
AMEN!
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bigcountryhuntr
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If I agreed with you we’d both be wrong.
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Skip16503
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Fishing is for everyone...period. Makes me sick to think that some believe that they are better because of how they fish and what they use. So if I come from the city I an inferior to some hick? Lol - what a pathetic stance...
Well said Doc............. 
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doubletaper
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livinfishin, what i commented on; MOST of the stocked waters with exception to spring fed mountain streams in the center of the state cannot support year round trout popuatlions of significance anyway i'll still bet that if you open all waters to bait fishermen that there will be much more litter than if it stayed a non-bait area. i'm not saying all bait fishermen are litterbugs etc. but there are plenty that leave litter around, hook pkg., worm containers, bird nested fishing line, among some of the bait fishermen litter. compared to open waters there is no comparison in the litter factor, not even close that i have seen through all my years of fishing in the many different counties, open waters and project waters that i fish. i never said that you won't find litter in poject areas but i'll bet it's less littered by a long shot. I also love how you paint all bait fisherman with such a broad brush which is akin to someone saying all fly fisherman are elitist egghead stuck up snobs. if this is aimed at me, you're wrong. can't see where i have said this seriously? i'm against project areas being open to bait fishermen mostly because of the litter factor. i also believe that many of these project areas, that run through private property, will be closed to all fishing. i fish with bait fishermen and it doesn't bother me a bit. i could care less unless they litter. i fly fish, not because i think i can outfish a bait fishermen all the time, nor because i think its a disgrace. i fly fish because that's what i like to do now (if i have to explain you wouldn't understand). more of a challenge and i don't have to buy or carry bait around. no disposable containers, no icky worm guts or slimy minnows to handle. don't have to worry about keeping the bait alive for days. no greasy salmon eggs to handle or the smell getting on my imported cigars. don't have to throw the dead minnows in the parking lot at the end of the day. and i used to hate it when i picked my nose and got powerbait on my moustache that i had to smell the rest of the day or put a chew in my mouth after using salted minnows!
post edited by doubletaper - 2012/04/09 23:55:05
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mote1977
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I would like to see a MHCPO ( must harvest center pin only)area. Only legal baits would be roe, powerworms, and beads. All fish caught must be roped immediately. I'm gonna go write the Commission a letter.
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SevenMileShowcase
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East side love is living on the west end
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moooooo4me
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I whif flies and dunk bait what does that make me?
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spoonchucker
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Slightly above the guy that sniffs flys, and baits drunk.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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gymi03
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I chuck bait and also fly fish....makes me a hypocrite doesnt it............ elitist proods ....lol.
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AndyLee
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I whif flies and dunk bait what does that make me?
It makes you a well rounded fisherman like myself. I also see that you don't paint "bait dunkers" as low-life neanderthal litterbugs either, which makes you a quality human being. Unlike the select few Richard Craniums that have polluted this thread, and this board in general. Can't mention trout fishing without them making a snide comment about those who fish with bait.
post edited by AndyLee - 2012/04/10 07:45:19
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TastyTrout
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I think Andy might have been a little over the top with the way he explained himself, but at the same time I agree with the point he was trying to get to. I choose to spinfish/baitfish. That's my choice. I find the term "bait dunker" completely derogatory and not necessary at all. If you choose to be a fly fisherman then that's your choice. We all CHOOSE which way we decide to fish....so why bash someone for their choice? As far as the litter goes I'll agree with the others in the fact that the litter left behind isn't necessary. However, I also know that in my opinion the people leaving the litter don't have good morals when it comes to the outdoors period. They're most likely people who fish opening day of trout and then maybe a few other times throughout the year. I'm sorry but in my opinion that's not a fisherman. Fisherman have morals and values and know that leaving trash behind is unacceptable. Do I get offended when the term bait dunker comes up....yep. Do I also think it's offensive to assume that because someone is using bait they're going to leave garbage behind...yep. Just to go off on another point about fly fisherman being elitist. There are certainly a few people I've came across on here who I do feel consider themselves elitist simply because they fly fish. On the other hand there are guys here like DT that fly fish and doesn't seem to put himself on a pedestal at all. Like he said he does it by choice. This is why I don't consider all fly fisherman an elitist...because there are good ones out there. How would fly fisherman feel if I referred to every one of them as "water slappers who should leave the clothes line at home" just because of a few bad apples? Get over it....most of us are good sportsman and the method we choose to fish shouldn't matter at all.
post edited by TastyTrout - 2012/04/10 08:59:38
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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Cold
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I find the term "bait dunker" completely derogatory and not necessary at all. Why? it's an accurate term. Bait-dunkers put bait on a hook and dunk it into the water. How else should one describe one who dunks bait that would be more accurate than 'bait-dunker'? Regarding the litter, when you see trash near any fishing area, how many worm tubs, plastic mealworm/waxworm/maggot cups, snelled hook packs, and powerbait/salmon egg/cheese jars do you see? Now how many tippet spools, leader bags, and gink bottles do you see? Unless you fly fish (or know someone that does) you probably dont even know what those things look like, because you dont see them littered. That's not to say all bait-dunkers are littering slobs, but more littering slobs are bait dunkers than are fluff-chuckers.
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