troutman413
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285 CFS ????
Is the SR running this low? Is it because the resevoir is low? Coming up the 3rd week of April but thinking we may miss the best parts of the run???
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pafisher
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/04 12:26:44
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According to what is said here and the waterline site it is indeed running that low.Third week of April may be a bit late this wacky year :(
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Clint S
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/04 15:25:13
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I went up to the res a few weeks ago. It was low, but not extremely low. I would say 5 or 6 feet for this time of year.  Water should be above or ending at the dark part on the bridge. I was up to the river today and it is running a bit higher than 285. EDIT Just check waterline and it is running about 400
post edited by Clint S - 2012/04/04 15:26:59
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
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pafisher
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/04 19:56:18
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The waterline from the power co says 285 thru thurs,but the flow at Pineville is 400,run off??
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Clint S
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/04 20:09:26
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There are a few tibs running in adding. As far as run off there may be a little, but it really has not rained hard or a long period for a bit around here
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
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dimebrite
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/04 21:06:25
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/05 10:44:27
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I would like to have got in ONE Spring trip where they didnt lower or raise the water level by2 the day before. Think it always puts the bite off till they get used to the new level for a while. Oh well- its fishing anyhow. That 50 hookup guy on the other forum musta hit it just right.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/05 11:27:53
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carphd
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 09:28:25
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That fifty fish guy was fishing to fish that hadn't seen a human in 3 months. There was about 70 cars parked at the upper kiddy pool on Sunday. UFZ Should be renamed to UFTZ "Upper Fish Torture Zone"
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dimebrite
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 11:29:53
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ORIGINAL: carphd
That fifty fish guy was fishing to fish that hadn't seen a human in 3 months. There was about 70 cars parked at the upper kiddy pool on Sunday. UFZ Should be renamed to UFTZ "Upper Fish Torture Zone"
Carp, didn't the upper fly used to open later??? April 15th. Or april 30th??? Also, I thought when it opened back up it was a no weight rule....I agree that those fish should have more rest before they open it up... in all honesty the whole river is getting out of hand...up until about 5 years ago you'd see no one in august, late april and early may..how about steelhead in late fall through early winter????its a freekking zoo. The river is beyond exploited ...what's next???shoulder to shoulder in smallmouth season?? It could be in a few years...
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 13:11:41
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Was under the impression that there could be no weight beyond the weight of the fly and that the fly weight is regulated also. And floating line only. Interesting the 50 fish guy said a guide yelled at him but that he was fishing just like everyone else was. Clearly there may be some misunderstandings going on- not bashing 50 hookups but that IS extreme for FLY fishing with no weight and floating line most anyplace this time of year. Anytime for that matter. Also gotta wonder why the UFZ is closed at all since many believe that the Steel smolt dont make it. The upcoming survey of their natural succes rates will be interesting even though the results will be a few years out. Might make some sense if ya wanted to have the late Hos spawn unmolested or were concerned with high flow up there and fishermens safety, but still gotta wonder bout the Steel. In regard to the River gettin outa hand Dime-- ya gotta remember its come back to the Fisherman numbers of the old GLORY days. Only diff is that now there is no legal snagging like there was with the trebble hooks above the Pineville bridge back then. Back then those kinda folks were in the upper river only with others who did THAT kinda fishin. Now they are out there among us and we too frequent the upper river. Used to be unusual to find other fly guys upstream. We went there cause the runs an pockets were kinda open with the crowds around all the pools.Had some large areas with nobody around-even in those days. It was almost like a secret fly fishin area with few guys goin up there-no more.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/06 13:31:21
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Clint S
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 15:16:16
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Here is what I found on weight:
Additional Weight: Between August 15 and April 30 of the following year, the maximum distance between the artificial fly and any added weight to the line, leader or tippet shall not exceed four feet. Between May 1 and August 15, no supplemental weight shall be placed on the leader, tippet or fly line. At any time during the year, weight shall not be added to the line, leader, swivels or artificial fly in any manner such that the weight hangs lower than the attached fly when the line or leader is suspended vertically from the rod. Use of supplemental weight such that the weight is the primary means of propelling the cast rather than the fly line or shooting line is prohibited.
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
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dimebrite
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 15:43:19
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ORIGINAL: Clint S
Here is what I found on weight:
Additional Weight: Between August 15 and April 30 of the following year, the maximum distance between the artificial fly and any added weight to the line, leader or tippet shall not exceed four feet. Between May 1 and August 15, no supplemental weight shall be placed on the leader, tippet or fly line. At any time during the year, weight shall not be added to the line, leader, swivels or artificial fly in any manner such that the weight hangs lower than the attached fly when the line or leader is suspended vertically from the rod. Use of supplemental weight such that the weight is the primary means of propelling the cast rather than the fly line or shooting line is prohibited.
Thanks for the info clint...my main question was the opener of upper fly zone...I could of sworn that it used to be april 30th.... can anyone shed light on this one... I imagine it is a blood bath up there... RT, I read that same article regarding crowds matching the snagging day crowds, but its quite evident that its more spread out through the season...with steelhead crowds being quite intolerable at times. Its not necessarily the staggers that bother me, as I don't see too much blatant ripping too often...its rather the crowds in general...too often it is that I get a window of opportunity to fish and ended getting disgusted with the scenery ..its my problem though. Everyone has the right to fish. It just sucks thinking back on earlier years when steelhead fishing was enjoyed in solitude often...
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carphd
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 16:24:28
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ORIGINAL: Clint S
Here is what I found on weight:
Additional Weight: Between August 15 and April 30 of the following year, the maximum distance between the artificial fly and any added weight to the line, leader or tippet shall not exceed four feet. Between May 1 and August 15, no supplemental weight shall be placed on the leader, tippet or fly line. At any time during the year, weight shall not be added to the line, leader, swivels or artificial fly in any manner such that the weight hangs lower than the attached fly when the line or leader is suspended vertically from the rod. Use of supplemental weight such that the weight is the primary means of propelling the cast rather than the fly line or shooting line is prohibited.
I never understood how they make any legislation, but always wondered on this one. WHY? Why does the way you fly fish, change, due to the seasons?. If you can catch fish in the summer one way, WHY does it change for the fall, winter, spring??? Unless of course you are looking at the underling angler intentions. Changing the rules to increase angler satisfaction. Anyways makes no sense to me. The upper fly was originally closed in the winter for nesting Bald Eagles, at least thats what Fran told me once. Has always re-opened April 1st.
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dimebrite
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 17:44:47
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ORIGINAL: carphd
ORIGINAL: Clint S
Here is what I found on weight:
Additional Weight: Between August 15 and April 30 of the following year, the maximum distance between the artificial fly and any added weight to the line, leader or tippet shall not exceed four feet. Between May 1 and August 15, no supplemental weight shall be placed on the leader, tippet or fly line. At any time during the year, weight shall not be added to the line, leader, swivels or artificial fly in any manner such that the weight hangs lower than the attached fly when the line or leader is suspended vertically from the rod. Use of supplemental weight such that the weight is the primary means of propelling the cast rather than the fly line or shooting line is prohibited.
I never understood how they make any legislation, but always wondered on this one. WHY? Why does the way you fly fish, change, due to the seasons?. If you can catch fish in the summer one way, WHY does it change for the fall, winter, spring???
Unless of course you are looking at the underling angler intentions. Changing the rules to increase angler satisfaction.
Anyways makes no sense to me.
The upper fly was originally closed in the winter for nesting Bald Eagles, at least thats what Fran told me once. Has always re-opened April 1st.
Carp great point... but with that question being asked, wouldn't that make one wonder WHY should one method of fishing not be allowed in a certain area on the river???why is there not a spin fishing only section, or a center pin only section??? I know I may be going off the deep end a little, but seriously...it is a legitimate point as well.... Btw, thanks for answering april 1st being the ordinary opener...don't know why end of april was stuck in my mind...
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carphd
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 18:05:36
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Dime, I agree 100%, If you want to say it's because fly fishing are C&R guys well then make it C&R from altmar to pineville and close the zoo's or keep the zoo's open year round no added weight unless it's on the fly and it's less then 1/8oz. Tooooo Simple I guess.
As Far as the Eagles go, I think they will do just fine, unless one goes after your streamer.lol
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3fan
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 18:06:00
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If we all get our own section I want a pluggers only section  Let em out! Wouldnt that be nice.
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 18:26:45
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The issue with making the upper being fly only is that the lining of fish will continue - only just with fly rods. Heck--- its easier with fly rods----thats why so many use them nowadays- some even use fly line insteada runnin line. At least those runnin line guys aint tryin ta fool anybody.(cept themselvs sometimes) Truth is thats why I started usin the fly rod. Have said it here before so -no secret- can be a GREAT 'artful lifter'--in the head at all times- just a matter of timeing.. Thats the way it was for many years till I saw the light an thats why so many now use a fly rod. Aint no secret and we all know it wether we admit it or not---so the only issue left is CATCH AND RELEASE- personally- I'm for it above Pineville and fly rod only too- just dont be kidding yourselves into thinking it will be a PURE area. Heck -I watched guys lift Atlantics last Summer in the UFZ. Honesty boyz--honesty- Pure flyguys are a distinct minority on the SR. Speakin of honesty the fact is that after running miles of the gauntlet during Shark season and gettin closer and closer to spawning and dying those Sharks aint biting much up there anyhow-that said I still letem go and love to give them the chance to breed. Other species are still biting and still active but the biggest crowds up there are still in SHARK season and targeting SHARKS. I now consider a fire to be LIT--
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/06 18:35:24
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3fan
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 18:38:48
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True lifters use mono on fly rods, heck I got 3 10/11 weight ugly sticks with martin knuckle busters on them I havent touched in 10 years. When I fish with my fly rod its just august to mid october and rarely do I use weight, and I have a ball. I also once swore by polorized glasses for the last 5 or so years I will not wear them, honestly if you want to stop snagging, lifting or lineing whatever you want to call it ban the glasses they are the key.
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Clint S
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 19:04:39
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
      The issue with making the upper being fly only is that the lining of fish will continue - only just with fly rods. Heck--- its easier with fly rods----thats why so many use them nowadays- some even use fly line insteada-runnin line. At least those runnin line guys aint tryin ta fool anybody.
   Truth is thats why I started usin the fly rod. Have said it here before so -no secret- can be a GREAT 'artful lifter'--in the head at all times- just a matter of timeing.. Thats the way it was for many years till I saw the light an thats why so many now use a fly rod.
  Aint no secret and we all know it wether we admit it or not---so the only issue left is CATACH AND RELEASE- personlly- I'm for it above Pineville and fly rod only too- just dont be kidding yourselvs into thinking it will be a PURE area.
 Honesty boyz--honesty
Ain't that the truth, a friend of a friend that I fish with sometimes bought a nice fly rod and reel only to use it to rip fish. He then was complaining that he could not cast that good. Tried to explain you cannot really roll cast that well with 2 cannon balls on the line so he went out and bought some $100 fly line only to have it tore to hell getting it wrapped around trees, brush and rocks where we go. Heck we all have lined fish, and I have lifted more than my fair share over the years . It's the folks who chase one fish up and down some rapids, try and herd them or just plain walk down the center of the water to push them out gets me. As far as crowds I have lived here my whole life and it's as bad as it's ever been. The biggest factors IMHO are: 1) The sheer # of fish, I you build a fishery they will come. Usually over half the cars in the lots are from out of state and in some cases why ------------------> 2) The internet. It's helped me. 50 hook up days and the ease finding and getting on fish make coming up very attractive. Why can they come here -----------------> 3) Disposable income. $4 a gallon gas and our "tough economic times" have not curtailed the crowds one bit. People come and spend money. That leads to the biggest on ------------------------> 4) Towns and county make alot of money off this fishery. You will see NO regulation changes that will impact this money, especially in these hard times when property and school taxes are out of control. Snagging and littering tickets could be wrote in the 1000's, but never will be due to wanting to keep it a fisherman friendly area.
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 19:30:26
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Right on Clint- If ya stopped the lifters or overly enforced it to the point most did not return the impact on the economy would be very significant. Hey Fan - ditto on the Ugly Stick and the Martin- only dif is I got sinking line steada mono on mine.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/06 20:25:43
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pistolpete76
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 19:35:17
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I agree Clint but TRUE "fishermen" don't litter anywhere, ever. My two cents.
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Clint S
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 20:11:30
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ORIGINAL: 3fan
I also once swore by polorized glasses for the last 5 or so years I will not wear them, honestly if you want to stop snagging, lifting or lineing whatever you want to call it ban the glasses they are the key.
How true, how true. I still wear mine, but now more for eye protection (still not being that good with the fly rod I have had flies coming at me several times this year  ). I even have the yellow ones made for cloudy days. I have noticed that several times this year, especially on the cloudy days I have accidently left them in the car and really not cared at all. It was not worth the trip back to the car to get them.
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/06 20:30:12
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I wear them all the time on the river--I really enjoy seeing the fish -not just the ones I go after but ----just seeeing the fish. When just hanging out and taking a break I walk around and simply look at them- nuts I guess but its a big part of it for me.
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pafisher
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/07 18:07:41
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I wear polarized glasses to see the bottom when wading,to protect my eyes from the rays,and as RG says to see the fish as I enjoy seeing those brutes cruising by.
I fish the "zones" for two main reasons.One to insulate myself from the Aholes that frequent the river below the Altmar bridge,and from what I see on the rest of the river the boat traffic sometimes is way too heavy.Not to say there are no Aholes in the "zones" but not near as many as below.
As far as the sharks biting in the zones I believe once they get up there they settle down and become willing hitters.However there are those days when it seems nothing turns them on,but that's true with any fishing....anywhere....that's why it's called fishing.Sometimes it's a particular color or fly that gets them,you don't have that color you get skunked and the guy next to you is hooking up!Then it's always presentation,you don't get it in front of them in a natural manner it's going to be slow going.
As far as weight goes I use just enough to get it in the strike zone,which is near the bottom,a couple #7's is usually all it takes,if the water is really low I have fished with no weight.
If they would close the "zones" I probably would fish the SR very rarely.If they would extend them down to Pineville the area would lose no income,the Aholes would be replaced with many that would enjoy that experience as it would be really good then.
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hot tuna
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/09 18:09:10
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Don't want to beat this dead horse but many things I think help the angler.. It's always up to them how they use their tools..
I fish to conditions and always try to increase my percentage of success.. Don't know about others but I try to catch fish, Heck I can cast all day in my swimming pool otherwise..
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/09 19:10:37
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Thats one important thing bout the SR any anyplace else for that matter- Fishin is fun but now and then ya gotta catch fish. I like to KNOW they are there now and then while I trying to catch one. Fishin to an empty place can be fun but ENOUGH is ENOIUGH sometimes.
In little trout streams ya can kinda know they are here and there depending on structure and such where they feed or hang out- Those fish arent on a spawn run like the SR fish making pushes with pods coming through and then NOTHIN for a while- it IS different.
PA- I dont use enough weight either
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3fan
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/09 19:49:41
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Fishing is exactly that its fishing, you dont go fishing knowing your gonna catch fish you go hopeing you are better than them that day and can fool them into takeing your offering. Learning how to read the water and knowing where they are at certain water levels and how to get the presenation there in a natural drift is how you catch fish not walking up to the river standing there with your glasses waiting to see a fish then casting to it. Tuna you mean to tell me all those brookies you catch your glassing first? I say throw them away, if the sun bothers your eyes buy some "cheap sunglasses" like I said havent used mine in years and dont miss them a bit, I love to fish and the time spent with buds catching is always the bonus.
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hot tuna
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/09 21:13:10
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please.. I glass all my trout streams. I look at bottom structure, I look for holding or feeding trout in lanes.. then cast to them or the structure.. AS I would on any stream.. I cast to feeding trout in their lanes that I "see: sipping surface or sub..
Now your putting apples to oranges comparing a lake,pond to a stream.. But yes, I also glass Brookie ponds and lakes for under water structure which might hold fish then cast to that.. I glass the Sport creek looking for smallmouth, I glass a clear lake looking for weedbeds that might hold gills or perch..
I glass the SR looking for holding Salmon or Trout to cast to..
Almost always you'll see me with glasses on..
Now If I'm just back trolling plugs or blind trolling behind a craft then yes , whats the point?? You wont see anything until your past that point.. But hey, maybe it might just give you intel for the next go-round..
I use weight, I use what weight is needed for conditions.. I wouldnt fish a dry fly for steelhead in a 30 >40 deg stream but would on a 50>60 deg trout stream in june.. Thats why we adapt to the conditions as do the species we fish for at that time..
Lets be real..
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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Lucky13
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/10 07:50:32
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A couple of years ago on Irondequoit Creek (it is between the Genesee and the SR, so this is the right board, would not want to break that hard and fast rule), I was fishing in the fast water between the Washington Street Parking Lot and "the Falls", and , glasses or no glasses, could see a 10 lber holding with its head in behind one of the stones. A guy who looked a lot like a Game Warden in plain clothes (maybe it was the stripe on the pants between the hip boots and the coat) stands and watches me trying to get the glo bug to drop into the hole in front of this fish, and then not setting the hook as the bug swings down along the fish's side past the tail, pickup and start again. After about 10 minutes he says " I think you are trying to snag that fish." I replied "If I was trying to snag that fish, I would have had him on 20 minutes ago, I'm trying to put the bug down where he might decide to hit it." He says "why don't you try somewhere else?" and I replied "I know there is a fish here, if I go somewhere else, I don't know there is a fish there." I never did get a hit, but for me it was more interesting to try to get a fish I knew was there to eat than to do a half mile of pocket searching and retying adfter I caught the stones.
I also find the glasses indespensible for wading, as important on most days as korkers.
L13
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retired guy
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RE: 285 CFS ????
2012/04/10 08:10:56
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If the water is running at any kinda decent rate it is rare to be able to see fish or even the bottom out where your presentation is landing. To be able to see the bottom where you are standing or a passing fish here and there is IMHO enough to know 'they' are in the area-and that enough to keep up the adrenalin.
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