deer populations in many areas of the state are more heavily influenced by the environmental conditions than they are by hunter harvests.



Really ????

Hunters control the deer populations by killing the number of deer they are allowed to kill per the PGC's tag allocations...
At least according to your bosses...

more and more hunters are coming to the realization that the current deer management is designed to provide the best possible future for both the deer and hunters.

Current deer management is designed to reduce deer numbers compatable with the ECO-SYSTEM management project as sold by Alt and the Audubon where evey plant and animal is in correct balance and carries equal weight in nature. Hunters will be used as a tool until that balance is reached at which time our services will no longer be needed or wanted.

And the endangered woodrat. Providing of course the Fisher isn't still hungry afte eating the last porkey.

More proof of the lies told to sell HR to the urbies is the fact that the survey shows most people enjoy having the deer around but their BIGGEST FEAR is the deer caused LYME DISEASE

It's a LONG report BUT ====

It still amazes me how we can read the same report and come away with total different opinions....

Here's what I see and it sure does not show ME that "deer causing Lyme disease is the biggest concern... no one single issue even had 1/2 the people replying agreeing on one issue...

CONCERNS ABOUT DEER AND DEER NUISANCE PROBLEMS


...The most concern was for tick-borne diseases (mean rating of 7.4) and deer-vehicle
accidents (7.0)



...Another graph shows the percentages giving ratings of 9 or 10. This gives an
idea of the percentage who feel strongly about the issues. The ranking is the same,
with tick-borne diseases (46% gave a high rating) and deer-vehicle accidents (45%
gave a high rating)


Overall Results



... Another question asked about deer-vehicle collisions, and 13% indicated that they
or another household member had been in a vehicle collision with a deer.

...The survey asked about specific nuisance problems with deer that Pennsylvania residents
may have experienced, and 12% indicated that they experienced problems with deer at their
primary place of residence....


...Finally, 4% indicated that they or a household member had been diagnosed with a tick-borne
disease.

4% === sure does not look like Lyme disease is much of a problem here in Pa ...

lot more folks experiencing personal property damage at home (12%)or with a collision (13%)

46% does not impress me very much when #2 reason is at 45% and there are alot more collisions than lyme cases....

and how many of those 46% have NO IDEA about what causes, how it is spread, symptoms, etc, etc about lyme disease.. many probably read about lyme disease on some message board blaming deer and that's all they know... ....

I was totally AMAZED last week at the sportman's club when we held our kids' easter egg hunt and found tics.. 1/2 those there had no idea where they came from or how they were spread and had no idea it (they) involved mice .. in any way shape or form...!!!!!

Actually it was the PGC that promoted the deer Lyme disease connection as part of the rationale for HR -- not some message board.

Got a link?

Ironhed

There are any number of examples of Alt and other members of the PGC making that claim that can be found on the internet. Here is one example of Alt still spreading the lies as late as 2009. Found under "Ticks tiny bite sets off big fight"

Gary Alt said when he was head of deer management for the state game commission, he heard all the time from hunters who would talk about the profusion of deer they used to see in state game lands.

Their assumption, Alt said, seemed to be that deer would naturally exist in those numbers. Alt said that's a misconception -- one that's proving disastrous for wildlife management in Pennsylvania and creating conditions perfect for spreading Lyme disease to people.

Alt left Pennsylvania in 2005, when hunters statewide were calling for his removal.

He said you have to look at the history of deer management in Pennsylvania to fully understand where we are.

Near the end of the 19th century, Alt said, 70 percent of Pennsylvania's land was devoted to agriculture, and the white-tailed deer was nearly extinct in the state.

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners, precursor to the Game Commission, restocked a portion of north central Pennsylvania with deer in the early 1900s. They did so with a prohibition on shooting does, a practice that became entrenched in the deer-hunting culture and guaranteed a population boom among deer, Alt said.

In ensuing decades, the deer population expanded from that re-stocking point. As more farmland was deserted and reverted to its natural state, they moved more or less in an expanding ring, Alt said.

In recent years, as they moved into the southeastern portion of the state, they came near human development more often. There, they've been protected from hunting, the state's only mechanism for deer population control.

To protect people, gun hunters can't come within 150 yards of an inhabited building, and bow hunters can't come within 50 yards.

Alt said the deer population is expanding still more within that protected zone because of the abundant food the animals are finding in farms, gardens and orchards.

"Where deer population are increasing most dramatically, that's where we're seeing the most Lyme disease," Alt said.

This is a snippet from Alts parting shot at the PGC in 2005 where he is still blaming deer for Lyme disease in spite of their own research saying it is not true. Notice also how many deer he is claiming get killed by cars. In his Bosses rebuttal he also shoots down Alts claim of 1,600,000 deer. Of course it was after they used that number along with Lyme disease to sell HR.

> Some hunters and agency personnel suggest we need to strive for compromise. We
have already compromised our ecology, economy, and even our safety by carrying
too many deer for too long. Pennsylvania drivers kill more deer by accident (a
minimum of 80,000 to 100,000 per year) than hunters in many states kill
intentionally during hunting seasons. We r> ank second in the nation for fatal
collisions with deer. We have the third-highest incidence of Lyme disease, and
deer are the breeding ground for the ticks that spread the disease. And a
growing number of homeowners have given up on gardens, ornamental plantings and
wildflowers due to deer. A recent report by a group of scientists and policy
specialists commissioned by Audubon Pennsylvania and the Pennsylvania Habitat
Alliance concluded, "The preponderance of scientific opinions attests that the
current high den> sities of white-tailed deer have seriously degraded the
ecological condition of forests in Pennsylvania. Moreover, until deer
populations are reduced and maintained at lower levels, it will not be possible
to restore key elements of forest health." Pennsylvania deserves wildlife
funding, administration and policy that reflect the participation of all its
citizens. This broader commitment - which ought to include taxpayer support in
some form - is necessary for our large and diverse state to meet the complex
natural resource challenges in the 21st century for the benefit of all our
society.
>
> Gary Alt worked for the Pennsylvania Game Commission for more than 27 years
and served as supervisor of its deer management section. He retired in December

Is it any wonder that so many people have an unfounded fear of deer because of Lyme disease.

So you are saying it's all a lie and there is no truth to it?
I gotta dig up that chicken little pic again...

Is it any wonder that so many people have an unfounded fear of deer because of Lyme disease.

And we all know so well how PA hunters pay attention to issues at hand, right? lol

Ironhed

(for the most part they are PAST their life span where they can infect anyone)

Cute, S-10, cute.

You can kill every deer in PA and you will still have the same amount of lyme disease.

lol

"We only believe what we want to believe"...especially on the interwebs!

Ironhed

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.Reason enough...WF

You can kill every deer in PA and you will still have the same amount of lyme disease.

Now that is really silly.... Do you really think a little mouse is going to cover as much ground as a deer....

Do you know of a mouse that has a "home range" of up to 5 miles, I am not aware of any ????

Without deer or fawns for the coyotes and bears to feed on there would not be a mouse left in the state...

Notice a few things in the Dr Alt comments S-10 posted... that were NOT pointed out...

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners, precursor to the Game Commission, restocked a portion of north central Pennsylvania with deer in the early 1900s. They did so with a prohibition on shooting does, a practice that became entrenched in the deer-hunting culture and guaranteed a population boom among deer, Alt said.

So we are talking about the beginnings of an ever increase deer population == YEARS AGO

In ensuing decades, the deer population expanded from that re-stocking point. As more farmland was deserted and reverted to its natural state, they moved more or less in an expanding ring, Alt said.

Now we have had deer moving into areas they had not been in for decades...

In recent years, as they moved into the southeastern portion of the state, they came near human development more often. There, they've been protected from hunting, the state's only mechanism for deer population control.

Again now we have means for an even bigger herd growth and more movement of deer

To protect people, gun hunters can't come within 150 yards of an inhabited building, and bow hunters can't come within 50 yards.

Alt said the deer population is expanding still more within that protected zone because of the abundant food the animals are finding in farms, gardens and orchards.

so what was he saying .. SIMPLE.. with a growing deer herd and deer moving to more and more areas and MANY of them living in protected areas the deer population would grow and grow and travel to more areas..

TRAVEL being the key word.. as the deer travel they carry those little critters on them.. thus the ticks spread to more and more area.. fall off... breed and start a new population of ticks in areas that may have never had a ticks population...

so naturally he would then say ==

"Where deer population are increasing most dramatically, that's where we're seeing the most Lyme disease," Alt said.

In the populated areas.. he is not saying/meaning in the woods.....

He's still not blaming deer for causing Lyme disease == IMHO.....

I have been hearing about nothing but TICKS from the folks living in town this fall and one guy has had to have 3 trips to the hospital since November and he does NOT GO INTO THE woods... He has pine trees in his yard and "they" feels that is where they are getting them...not from any deer

and the area around our sportman club is LOADED with them....

I'm not so sure I would say we had deer in all areas of Pa in the early 1980s when it hit Pa, after being discovered in the northeast (Ct.)in 1975...


but to each his own...

The point is, unless one either desperately needs to win an argument on a slight degree of probabilty -- much like Lloyd when told that he had one chance in a million of dating the rich girl said -- "so, you are admitting there is a chance" -- or one simply cannot come to grips with the fact, yes fact, that the PGC used an alarmist tactic to insight fear to the, as Doc like to point out, 90% of PA residence that don't hunt, but have as much say as those that do, the PGC may well have believed their story when it was splashed all over the media because it served their purpose, but when it clearly came to light that Lyme disease is not rampidly spread by deer, there was no such vigorous campaign and media blitz to correct the misconception because it still served the same purpose.
 
In other words, when deer = Lyme disease served a purpose for the PGC, it was Page One news and when it was proven that that wasn't exactly true, it was buried where those that already had the notion intheir heads would more than likley never see it.  Again, perception, even a wrong perception, is reality and the PGC did nothing, repeat, nothing to change that perception because it was much better for their agenda to not do so.
 
No chicken Little needed, just some honesty by the PGC in the same bold fashion as their first statement and some admission by the blind followers that no deer are not a primary nor major nor even minor cause of Lyme disease, but rather a very, very, add three more verys, rare cause.  It is not about winning an argument or blindly supporting a side, it is about being able to be have an open mind, think for yourself, and at times admit that you were duped, on purpose or not, by a group that you trusted.