dpms
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World Famous
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/03 05:08:30
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How can it take 1500 pages to say ,Dam poor job??....WF
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DarDys
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/03 07:21:23
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The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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dpms
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/03 07:49:55
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I haven't had the fortitude to open and give it a look see, yet... Supposedly, alot of methodology within its pages.
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/03 10:06:48
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There is a lot of information that is broken down very well and could be very useful to the PGC if they choose to go into it in detail. The problem I see is now everyone in the state, no matter if they are an anti hunter living in a condo in Philli or a hunter living on farm has an equal say in deer management. In fact, if I read it correctly while approx 400 folks from each WMU were surveyed their answers were mltiplied by the number of residents in each WMU giving the city folks input much more weight than the rural folks. It is further broken down if anyone bothers to dig into it. The other thing the PGC did was ask several of the same leading questions they did to sell HR that we all agreed to until we found out what they meant. You can get a good feel for the survey in a couple hours if your just interested in the statewide data and your own WMU.
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dpms
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/03 10:30:10
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ORIGINAL: S-10
In fact, if I read it correctly while approx 400 folks from each WMU were surveyed their answers were mltiplied by the number of residents in each WMU giving the city folks input much more weight than the rural folks. Thats interesting. Certainly would tilt the results towards perceptions of urban residents which many times, know little about the topic of the survey.
My rifle is a black rifle
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/03 11:12:38
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I'am not even sure why they would include three of the WMU's as their problems are different and they are managed separatly from the rest of the state anyway.
One interesting finding was that the #1 concern the respondents had concerning deer numbers (even over car accidents) was--TICK BORN DISEASE---- I guess the PGC forgot to tell folks that all that hysteria over deer causing Lyme Disease when they were selling HR was just Bull--it
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Ironhed
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 01:08:08
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Ironhed
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 01:11:20
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There is a lot of information that is broken down very well and could be very useful to the PGC if they choose to go into it in detail. There is a lot of info that is broken down very well that could be very useful to PA hunters if they choose to...never mind. We already know that PA hunters are mostly satisfied and really, just don't give a crap! lol Ironhed
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 06:21:55
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hunters are mostly satisfied and really, just don't give a crap! lol Over a decade of what has been called the DEER WARS would indicate that many do care.  It will be interesting to see if the PGC changes the way they manage the SRA's as the majority of respondents said there was nothing wrong with the number of deer there.  It will be interesting to see if they change the way they manage 2F and 2G as the majority of respondents say there are not enough deer in those two WMU's.[:D
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DarDys
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 07:31:08
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The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 10:21:22
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It will be interesting to see if they change the way they manage 2F and 2G as the majority of respondents say there are not enough deer in those two WMU's.[: I image they will do NOTHING differently in my unit of 2F ... and where do you see the majority say it is too low.. ??? and folks say my math is bad... What I see is 42% say say too low Now take the 10% that say too high and add the 39% say just right.. NOW.. I get the majority 49% saying the deer population is NOT too low... The most common answer among residents of WMU 2F is that the deer population in their area is too low (42%), closely followed by that the deer population is just right (39%);
only 10% say it is too high. So I read that as saying 49% of those questioned said the population was NOT too low. Why do some want to keep saying (and wanting people to believe) that in 2F the deer population is poor when polls keep showing folks here do not believe that ... so once again we have a poll saying that it is not too low in 2F and we will still have those saying it is too low simply because that is their opinion.
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/04/04 10:22:03
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 11:44:04
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 12:27:42
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Why do some want to keep saying (and wanting people to believe) that in 2F the deer population is poor when polls keep showing folks here do not believe that ... Which folks are you talking about Doc? According to the survey 67% of the folks actually in the woods trying to find one of them say the deer population in 2f is TOO LOW. It's probably just the ones who don't own posted private property next to a state gamelands that feeds them 11 months of the year that feel that way though. .
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Dr. Trout
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 14:39:22
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One thing I noticed in all most all the WMU was that when it came to the charts for folks "claiming to be hunters" the majority did say there were not enough... BUT I also noticed that of the pro-claimed hunters saying it was just right or too many was about the same as the ratio for successful hunters verus un-successful hunetrs in general... So I feel confident in saying most of the unsuccessful hunters are the ones claimng there are not enough deer..  plus add in the fact of how many pro-claimed hunters that were questioned that do not live in the area.. I have always said the folks that live in the area 24/7 are the ones that have a better grasp on the deer population and it matters NOT if they are hunters .. they know better than few "hunters" that base all there opinions on what they see while in the woods during a deer season......
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/04/04 15:21:49
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 15:05:21
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BUT I also noticed that about of pro-claimed hunters saying it was just right or too many was about the same as the ratio for successful hunters verus un-successful hunetrs in general...
So I feel confident in saying most of the unsuccessful hunters are the ones claimng there are not enough deer..
plus add in the fact of how many pro-claimed hunters that were questioned that do not live in the area.. I have always said the folks that live in the area 24/7 are the ones that have a better grasp on the deer population and it matters NOT if they are hunters .. they know better than few "hunters" that base all there opinions on what they see while in the woods during a deer season......
??? I don't know what you are trying to say or what you are using for your claim on the first two sentences.
"ALL" of the people questioned for the WMU statistics were residents of that particular WMU. The folks doing the survey went to great lenghts to assure they had the respondents correlated to the proper WMU of residence.
42% of the total respondents said there were too few deer in 2F
40% of the total respondents claimed to be hunters.
67% of them said there were too few deer on 2F
post edited by S-10 - 2012/04/04 15:07:12
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Dr. Trout
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 15:18:44
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I see the main difference in adding 2F and 2G together so folks say not enough deer is the fact that the number of people saying too many is what makes the difference... 2F had 10% while 2G has only 3%... in both 39% say "just right" Even if asked about 2G I, too, would have to also say not enough.. BUT that is only because the habitat could not support more deer in the majority of the WMU anyways ... that and there is little ground that is not off limits or posted.. The one SGL I know of is HAMMERED with hunters, traveling to DuBois weekly in the past one could ALWAYS see 5-6 dead deer along the 10 miles on route 219 past that gamelands.. Now one is lucky to see any along the road, dead or alive, on that same trip... as compared to 2-3 dead deer.. A WEEK .. in the 9 miles I travel to work still to this day.. there are three at the field less than 1/4 mile away rotting away right now... two days this week I counted 5-7 deer right at the entrance to where the game school used to be in a grassy area eating grass at 8:15am as I drove by, also a dozen turkeys at various spots from day to day, and the ring-neck in the field nearby twice...  My best day was Tuesday.. I counted 14 deer by the time I got to work in town... ALL on land open to hunting !!!!!!!! Where's the photos one asks... I may be the only one == but for the past few years I have noticed that when stopping the truck around here the deer are GONE.. especially on open land.. no more standing around looking at me and allowing for photos.. GONE in a flash !!!! I have never been one to boast about any great deer population in 2G.. there are deer there but the average Joe is not going to find them when they continue to hunt the areas of poor habitat that are now barren and that use to be their "honey spots" I have also MANY times mentioned there are poor to terrible areas in 2F.. I just do not go there to hunt but in general, for the most part, as the survey said the deer population in 2F is "just right" and anyone wanting to hunt good areas next season can just E-mail me and I'll give them some ideas and areas to scout pre-season for a good chance at a successful hunt...  Over the years I have learned to NOT do that on the average message.. what do you guys call it.. oh yeah.. spot burning
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Dr. Trout
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 15:41:18
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I wish they would have asked one more question of those claiming to be hunters... Did you harvest a deer or not and how many? What I found the MOST interesting about 2F and 2G was the results from hunters.. although as I said I think unsuccessful hunters are more apt to say not enough deer... LESS hunters in 2G thought the population was "too low" in 2G as compared to those in 2F ???? 56% to67% MORE hunters thought the population was "just right" in 2G compared to 2F.. 38% compared to just 28% in 2F and the fact that -- of the hunters --- MORE thought the deer population in 2G was too high compared to those in 2F .. 4% compared on only 2% in 2F... and we hear more complaining about how bad things are in 2G.... looks like hunters in 2G think 2F is the worst of the 2 ?????????????? If only they knew
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DarDys
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 16:02:47
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I wish they would have asked one more question of those claiming to be hunters... Did you harvest a deer or not and how many?
That would be like asking you if there were too many taxi cabs in New York City -- If it was raining and you got a cab right away, the number is just right; if you got soaked because oyu couldn't hail one, then there are too few; and if you couldn't get across the street because of taxi traffic, there are too many. In other words, using harvest criteria is not only subjective, but situationally subjective. And that is nothing that one wants to base any decisions on.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 17:11:06
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Now that is exactly why I pay little attention to opinions on how many deer there are based on hunter's opinions !!!!! and why the PGC has to manage the herd based on all Pa residents opinions... The farmer losing crops says too many.. The landowners losing their exotic plants, trees, and gardens say too many.. Folks having deer/vechile accidents say too many .. Timber owners losing young trees say too many .. Folks feeding, photographing, and spotlighting, and those who just enjoy seeing deer every now and then say just right.. most successful hunters say just right... unsuccessful hunters say not enough.. and the battle goes on just as it has for a hundred years.. you can't please all the people all the time !!!
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World Famous
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 19:02:42
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What a waste of time and effort the PGC had. Reguardless of what anyone says or the survey results, they are going to do what they want and how they want. This has been hammered into us since the start of HR and AR. What a joke. Their couple of "experts" KNOW what needs done and exactly the plan to do it properly. No one else has any impact on the plan. By the way, I love the misdirection but the can't fool everyone....WF
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S-10
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/04 20:13:56
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Now that is exactly why I pay little attention to opinions on how many deer there are based on hunter's opinions !!!!!
and why the PGC has to manage the herd based on all Pa residents opinions...
The farmer losing crops says too many..
The landowners losing their exotic plants, trees, and gardens say too many..
Folks having deer/vechile accidents say too many ..
Timber owners losing young trees say too many ..
Folks feeding, photographing, and spotlighting, and those who just enjoy seeing deer every now and then say just right..
most successful hunters say just right...
unsuccessful hunters say not enough..
and the battle goes on just as it has for a hundred years..
you can't please all the people all the time !!!
_____________________________
DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD
(in reply to DarDys)
Report | Post #: 20 All of that is just your opinion and what the PGC wants us to believe, not necessarly based in fact------in 2b 61% of ALL citizens say deer numbers are just right or too low---64% in 5C, and 65% in 5D----All three WMU's with lots of people with gardens and flowers, heavy traffic, folks seeing deer, etc, etc. They also happen to be the areas the PGC says there are WAAAYYY too many. Apparently the non-hunters like having them around in spite of any problems they may cause. If it wasn't for the BS scare tatic of Lyme Disease they used to sell HR that number would be much higher.
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retired guy
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/05 01:42:04
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Not from PA-dont hunt there anymore-nothing against PA or its herd numbers. Wont comment on your information from the State here either - no horse in the race. WILL comment on s10s accurate comment bout the condo folks or in my words URBIES (non hunters) having the same say as the country folks or RURAL . Unfortunately your startin to see it. As we move from rural to urban our sport will come into increasingly difficult times. The ANTIS trying to make us extinct are URBIE in nature. This is NOT just happening in PA but everywhere. We MUST get and stay involved in the process and in a positive and productive manner. ] This is the ONLY way we can have positive input into what is clearly a condition in which, over time, our sport is going to change drastically-and not to our benefit. - Thanks 10 for the observation.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/05 02:11:14
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retired guy
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/05 01:55:23
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Case in point about the above -get involved positively theory- A number of years ago the ANTIS were havin lotsa luck with trying to get Coon hunting with dogs made illegal here. Sat in on a meeting with a Farmer and some influential hunters . They were trying to figure out how to stop the legislation at the committee hearing level. Were coming up with all kinda common sense stuff we RURAL thinking folks would understand. Some wanted to demonstrate wearing orange. Suggested that the hunter/farmer common sense was gonna be lost on the URBIES and the demo would quickly produce a big counter demo.. Suggested since we were in the midst of a RABIES epidemic that they should simply make the accurate claim that Coon were a major carrier of RABIES and needed to have their numbers controlled by any means at hand. They quickly grabbed onto that line of thought and quietly made it a major point of their presentation. Nobody in Govt wants to be associated with anything causing the spread of rabis. Even the URBIES got kids and pets. The legislation was quietly and promptly dropped.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/04/05 02:22:13
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DarDys
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/05 07:47:47
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
Now that is exactly why I pay little attention to opinions on how many deer there are based on hunter's opinions !!!!!
and why the PGC has to manage the herd based on all Pa residents opinions...
And again, that would be like regulating the number of taxis in New York City based on the opinions of of those in Lake Placid, which while in the same state, has nothing to do with them. Or asking about the price of meat to a vegitarian. If they aren't directly involved or paying for it, then their opinion isn't worth a warm bucket of spit. As for the farmers, and it is really the Farm Bureau, not farmers in general, they have a choice -- either put up with what they perceive as "too many deer" or do something about it by either shooting them for crop damage or, preferably, permitting hunting. Complaining about too many deer and then not letting hunters, or themselves for that matter, provide a solution is like them living next to the ocean for the view, but **** about the sound of the waves through an open window. Either provide a solution, like closing the window, or quit complaining. It can't be both ways.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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retired guy
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/05 18:18:32
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Love your ocean view/noise comment.
My Warden Cousin hada go to an URBIES house one night on a call. They had moved to the Country and wanted him to stop the Peepers from peeping so they could get some sleep-
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Dr. Trout
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/09 14:25:03
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If universal ownership was the criteria, they would have opted for the mailbox NOW THAT'S FUNNY !!!!! If over 60% do not use the "mailbox" to report their harvests... do you really think they would send in a questionaire .... Besides the PGC has tried sending surveys and/or questionaires by mail before and got little to none in replies.... MANY MANY folks do not really want the PGC to get ALL THE FACTS correct...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/04/09 14:28:31
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bingsbaits
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/09 14:45:19
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Seems there are alot of folks with little faith in the PGC.. Wonder why that is ??????
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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DarDys
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/09 15:16:41
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
If universal ownership was the criteria, they would have opted for the mailbox
MANY MANY folks do not really want the PGC to get ALL THE FACTS correct...
You mean like the PGC not requiring all hunters report harvest data, positive and negative, so that a formula is no longer needed to provide a guestimate because ALL THE FACTS would be known about the actual harvest numbers? BTW, I doubt that every person that was contacted by phone, if they answered the phone and didn't screen out the call, responded.
post edited by DarDys - 2012/04/09 15:17:52
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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World Famous
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RE: 2012 Pa resident survey on deer management
2012/04/09 19:29:41
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Asking leading questions, as they do, one would think THEY do not want to know the answers. May show they are maybe not on the right track or don't want to know. We have the experts and WE can't be wrong. Had a wife once that was never wrong. I wonder where she works now??...WF
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