dpms
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Who is killing the bucks
See alot of discussion about when antlered kill are killed. Some worried about pre-rut buck harvest and the percentage of total harvest that archers kill. Statewide has been hovering around 30-33% but has been slowly climbing for some time. Take a peek at the SRA's archery kill percentages compared to the rest of the state, with a few exceptions. Those exceptions seem to be around other more populated areas. Remember when looking at the numbers that of our total number of deer hunters, 42% are archery hunters. Interesting stuff. 
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dpms
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/17 09:20:34
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Also rather apparent that our muzzleloader guys are getting the short end of the stick. I would like to see them get a decent chance at a antlered deer. Whether a special season in September or during the early muzzleloader season.
Be cool for Pa to have a draw, similar to the elk lottery, for a coveted special antlered inline tag.
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Claypool313
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/17 09:53:41
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When I look at it this way, it's depressing for my beloved 3A. Although we've never been known as a trophy destination, 3A was at least traditionally known to give up decent #'s of bucks each year. The lines of camps on back roads were built there for a reason. So now it's down to one of the lowest in the state? Granted it's not a large WMU. My trail cam says we still have bucks. Must be overall reduced hunting pressure after the first bangs of opening day. 760 in archery doesn't sound like many, but the 23% seems about what I would guess.
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Big Tuna
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/17 10:55:53
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Yea I love flintlock late season and really tried for a buck,I had 5 different bucks 40 yards or less but none where 3 up. Us loaders have got the shaft since FOREVER. dpms the numbers will keep falling,PGC thinks every things ok with the herd but us hunter know whats up.
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S-10
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/17 20:23:03
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Just let all the muzzleloaders hunt in WMU unknown, they seem to be really hammering them there. 
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S-10
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/17 20:33:09
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Remember when looking at the numbers that of our total number of deer hunters, 42% are archery hunters. Interesting stuff. That percentage can vary depending if you use the 700,000 deer hunters number the PGC uses to calculate the harvest success rate or the 888,187 deer hunters number they use to calculate the impact of Sunday hunting. Either way it looks like the archery hunters are not taking an out of line number of deer in relation to their hunter numbers. What they are doing however is taking many of the better ones.
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dpms
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/17 21:56:29
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ORIGINAL: S-10
That percentage can vary depending if you use the 700,000 deer hunters number the PGC uses to calculate the harvest success rate or the 888,187 deer hunters number they use to calculate the impact of Sunday hunting.
I noticed that when Roe stated 700,000 during his report to game and fish. If 700,000 is closer to accurate, we have lost a ton of hunters over the past decade.
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wayne c
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 17:17:20
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Inlines have a season. Right alongside the rifle hunters. To insinuate they are at too much of a disadvantage to do so is ridiculous. If I wanted to hunt with one during rifle, I would feel absolutly NO disadvantage. Short special low impact "flinter" only season for antlered I might support. But only if it didnt cause too big of a ruckus and if it were something the majority of hunters would support. It would have very minimal additional impact I believe, and is the only reason Id consider supporting it. The cramming stuff down our throats crap from pgc needs to stop. Any decisions be it inline, flinter, or slingshot...should be run past US. And decisions based upon our response period. Especially when its nowhere close to being a "biological" issue. But that will never happen with the commissioners usually being too power-drunk, and pushing their own agendas.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/03/18 17:28:48
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 18:07:09
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Any time the PGC or even the PFBC has new ideas everyone is more than welcome to write or call and express their opinions.. that's the way it has always been .. most hunters just do not give a "sheet" so they never call or write to express their opinions on any new ideas... so the PGC/PFBC uses what responses they do get to help with their decisions.. I personally give my 2 cents on all new ideas and usually respond more than once !!!! THUS = some folks feel they are not listening to the majority of hunters when a decision is finally made .. truth is the majority never takes a minute to let their feelings known..and that is no one's fault but the folks not responding to an idea. So all they have is a majority of those that did respond to help with decision making... Almost all decisions have a period prior to the final decision for "public comments" I hope you let them know your opinions, but remember.... when you do not agree with the decision... most hunters and anglers never called or wrote... and AGAIN.. that is their fault not the PGC or PFBC for example.. I wrote the PFBC last week to express my thoughts on an idea floating around Harrisburg about a "family license to fish".... UGH how stupid !!!!   
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/03/18 18:09:01
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wayne c
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 18:24:51
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Any time the PGC or even the PFBC has new ideas everyone is more than welcome to write or call and express their opinions.. Of course. If they didnt appear to have an open line of communication, there would be legal ramifications!! lol. There is no choice. But there is no law preventing them from ignoring the input, just as the pgc has done with anyone not asking for more deer killed off over the last 10 years. most hunters just do not give a "sheet" so they never call or write to express their opinions on any new ideas... Wrong. Ive heard from commissioners how many contacts they receive on certain topics, and its been quite a few for some of them. And theyve usually voted against the huge majority. THUS = some folks feel they are not listening to the majority of hunters when a decision is finally made .. truth is the majority never takes a minute to let their feelings known..and that is no one's fault but the folks not responding to an idea. Ridiculous doc and you know it. If i werent ready to kill over here today, Id give some examples straigh from commissioners. SInce Im lazy, and some have been posted here before, and Im sure youre aware of what the truth actually is, think I'll just go lay down.  Havent had a huge problem with fish & boat, they havent managed to muff up my fishing of choice, and I dont believe they have screwed anything up in their history anywhere near like pgc has... So I'll give them 3.7 out of 5 stars, and one thumbs up.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/03/18 18:28:16
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wayne c
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 18:30:10
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for example.. I wrote the PFBC last week to express my thoughts on an idea floating around Harrisburg about a "family license to fish".... UGH how stupid !!!! Sounds like a good idea for hunting licenses. Would be a good recruitment and retention tool, as long as the price were kept low. Either that or have a "combination license" including tags & various stamps together at a big discount over buying them separately, like many other progressive states management agencies do that actually care about "hunting" and hunters.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/03/18 18:31:51
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 18:49:59
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and I dont believe they have screwed anything up in their history anywhere near like pgc has... We we certainly can disagree on that one, based on our own opinions of what screwing up would be.. .. I know many that hate the 5 trout limit ... and even the whole trout stamp idea ... we are getting less fish now than we ever did before the stamp.. .. Using three rods is just silly IMHO.. .. All these special reg areas SUCKS... .. Posting when the in season stocking of trout take place is another screw up... .. the new rule on "life jackets for small boats in spring and fall .. UGH.. etc.. etc.. It's all a matter of one's opinions on what is "screwing things up" ... 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/03/18 18:53:18
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S-10
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 18:52:44
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Any time the PGC or even the PFBC has new ideas everyone is more than welcome to write or call and express their opinions 1. The commissioners admit their mail and calls were running 80-90% against crossbows and look what happened. 2. The hunters were asking for a reduced doe season to save a few doe and look what we got, More tags to more than make up for the reduction in days 3. They created the CAC's to give the citizens a voice in deer numbers but didn't like what they were hearing so they eliminated them. 4. I'am sure they now will say that they aren't hearing from the hunters so we must be happy. 5. I've contacted all of them several times and one several more and the only one time they listened was when it meant killing more deer. They must have one h*ll of a file 13.
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dpms
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 19:00:36
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ORIGINAL: wayne c
Inlines have a season. Right alongside the rifle hunters. To insinuate they are at too much of a disadvantage to do so is ridiculous. If I wanted to hunt with one during rifle, I would feel absolutly NO disadvantage. I have never said that inlines have too much of a disadvantage? Yes, one can hunt with them during our firearms seasons currently. The fact of the matter is that every state treats them as muzzleloaders with their own season. In Pa, we have a early muzzleloader season where they are legal. What I suggested is to allow some bucksto be harvested in this season. But, it would have to be very slowly implemented via a draw similar to our elk draw. Short special low impact "flinter" only season for antlered I might support. But only if it didnt cause too big of a ruckus and if it were something the majority of hunters would support. It would have very minimal additional impact I believe, and is the only reason Id consider supporting it. As would I, but that approach would add another "season" to what many feel is already too many seasons. If we already have a early muzzleloader where inlines are legal, it makes the most sense to find a way there. The cramming stuff down our throats crap from pgc needs to stop. Any decisions be it inline, flinter, or slingshot...should be run past US. And decisions based upon our response period. Especially when its nowhere close to being a "biological" issue. But that will never happen with the commissioners usually being too power-drunk, and pushing their own agendas.
I think that is changing under Martone's watch. The work group meetings are now open to the public and press. This is where ideas are floated and real discussion happens. The one coming up in a week will include discussion on changing the FO regs. From this meeting a agenda will be set and public comment can begin. The process is getting much more open that what it once was.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 19:00:37
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1.. I wrote supporting crossbows and know several commissioners who got more supporting input than against 2.. I wrote opposing reducing the number of days to hunt does.. but you are right they did NOT listen 3.. I wrote telling them the CACs were a bad idea when it was first discussed.. but when asked to give my opinons for the 2F CAC said everything was fine as is for 2F 4.. I have been telling them for 10 years I a happy with the current deer management plan.. 5.. I hear back every time I write or call and most of their decisions I agree with so once again in depends on which side of the fence one is on ...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/03/18 19:01:56
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S-10
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 19:09:18
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 19:36:49
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S-10
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 19:42:15
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The same article this was taken from stated todays inlines with sabots are all honest 200 yard guns. I have launched this bullet out of the muzzle of several .50-caliber inline rifles at around 1,980 fps with a 110-grain charge of FFFg Triple Seven. The load generates 2,260 fpe at the muzzle. If we go with the lower .360 BC, that means this bullet will retain a velocity of around 1,775 fps at 100 yards and hit with 1,820 fpe. And, thanks to the sleek, long shape of this polymer-tipped, swaged, .400-inch-diameter lead bullet, it will still be moving along at around 1,580 fps at 200 yards and deliver more than 1,400 foot-pounds of knockdown power. Reprinted from the December 2004 issue of Buckmasters GunHunter Magazine Tell me again why they need a special season. They are accurate well beyond the distance 95% of our deer are shot. We don't have a special season for the Ruger or any other single shot rifle, or is that coming next.
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dpms
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/18 20:20:21
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ORIGINAL: S-10
Tell me again why they need a special season. They are accurate well beyond the distance 95% of our deer are shot. We don't have a special season for the Ruger or any other single shot rifle, or is that coming next.
The already have a special season. Here and across the country. No doubt that they are effective. I wouldn't lump them in with existing firearm seasons though. Nor do I feel that they are the same class of firearm as a flintlock. Probably why inlines have thier own season most places. It is pretty standard to have archery seasons, muzzleloader seasons and firearms seasons. Here in Pa, we also have our unique flintlock only hunt. Most places, does are legal. Some allow bucks and many it is a special draw for antlered deer. Pretty typical stuff. But, hey, this is Pa.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/19 07:40:12
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DarDys
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 08:10:24
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The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Big Tuna
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 08:44:58
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To bring up the buck kill shut down buck season for 2 years,that would give you and older class buck,and keep Doc very happy with his 2 doe harvest. I'm glad I've seen good hunting in my days,because things are doing to get bad in a few more years.
post edited by Big Tuna - 2012/03/19 09:17:04
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bingsbaits
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 15:11:39
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
.. I know many that hate the 5 trout limit ... and even the whole trout stamp idea ... we are getting less fish now than we ever did before the stamp..
Should it be more ?? You hate the trout stamp that pays for the fish but you want a higher limit....Really?? I say reduce the limit to three and double the price of the Stamp.... .. Using three rods is just silly IMHO.. Mabee of off your little rock on the Clarion, This will benefit many boaters, Carp and Cat fishermen, Walleye fisherman... If you think it's silly don't participate. But why be against others doing it just beacuse YOU think it's silly.. .. All these special reg areas SUCKS... Why is that? There are very few miles of special regs water in this state compared to the number of fishable miles of water. Beacuse there are areas you can't kill fish in ?? Can't use live bait ?? I wish there was more special regs areas, with a whole lot more C&R streams that the Meathounds can clean out in the first 2 weeks..Some people enjoy fishing 365 days a year.... .. Posting when the in season stocking of trout take place is another screw up... Gotta agree here, can't stand the 5 gallon bucket brigade chasing the stock truck. I think the stream should be closed for the day of the stocking. .. the new rule on "life jackets for small boats in spring and fall .. UGH.. When was the last time you were even in a boat under 16 ft ?? Why lobby against something you will not even participate in. Ever fall into 40 degree water, if you are not a good swimmer you are dead without a PFD. It's only during the cold weather months.. etc.. etc.. It's all a matter of one's opinions on what is "screwing things up" ...
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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DarDys
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 15:53:50
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Doc,
If you don't like "special regs" with regard to fishing, how can you support archery (verticle and cross), muzzleloader, youth, senior, and inline "special regs" for deer hunting?
Is it because you participate in some of them, so it's okay?
Either you support special regs, whether you participate or not, or you don't, whether you participate or not. When you start to pick and choose, you are discriminating against someone or someone's method. And that is just not fair.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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World Famous
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 17:41:37
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I like all the special regs, except for a few. or maybe most of them. or some of them. What the heck WAS the question??.Oh heah, trout stocking in season.Sometimes...WF
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 18:26:36
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If you don't like "special regs" with regard to fishing, how can you support archery (verticle and cross), muzzleloader, youth, senior, and inline "special regs" for deer hunting?
I know of no areas (around here) that are only available for hunting with a specific weapon year round... but maybe you are aware of some ???? specific seasons = YES ... just like there are special seasons for keeping certain species of fish.. I was talking about areas that are closed year round to anglers that do not use a specific style of fishing.. as Dars said === ""you are discriminating against someone or someone's method. And that is just not fair. " When was the last time you were even in a boat under 16 ft ??
Why lobby against something you will not even participate in.
I have a 10 foot jon boat My problem with life jackets is if a person is DUMB enough to be in a small boat without one when the chance of falling in freezing water is present then let them pay the price if they fall in ... The "government" is already telling me what to do and what not to do .. I'm old enough to make up my own mind on the risks I want to take to enjoy something... I lost a good friend a few weeks ago who fell thru the ice at Ridgeway .. I'd not want to say he was dumb... BUT maybe he should have had a vest or maybe not gone that day with thin ice.. I don't know I was not there.. but I know he LOVED fishing and ice fishing and probably would have rather died that way than in a car wreck.... but I'm no fan of ice fishing for that very reason.. I'd be DEAD within seconds if I fell in Finally as for the 3 rods.. I have no problem and wanted the PFBC to be specific and allow for anglers in boats... and those still fishing for carp, and catfish .. I just can't wait to see the guy on the 14th lining a trout stream and using three rods to take up about 20 feet of stream-side with their 3 rods sitting on sticks with power bait and worms sitting on the bottom waiting for a trout to pick it up....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/03/19 18:30:41
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World Famous
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 18:58:28
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Doc, if someone would do that ,on a stream on opening day, they will probably be happy catching their 5 fish and heading for the club or diner to show everyone how good they are at fishing. Leaves more room for us then!!  ..WF
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wayne c
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 19:00:29
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Doc, I never said fish & boat never screws anything up. Not that I would say alot of the stuff you mentioned is screwing up anyway...But more importantly what I said was this: "I dont believe they have screwed anything up in their history anywhere near like pgc has..." Nothing....and i mean NOTHING has caused as much dissent, disgust, and just basically all around "bad ju-ju" as the Pgc deer management plan. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.  And I mean N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 19:17:16
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You must not remember when the trout stamp hit the scene... lots of ''bad ju-ju"'' Folks just learned to live with it... same as what will happen with the deer programs.. it is what it is.. folsk just do not adapt to change well....
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retired guy
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 22:23:05
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10 My single shot Ruger 06 and my single shot Traditions 50 cal in line both shoot bout the same small Group at 100. Would feel comphy with either in the same season as its the first shot that counts if ya do it right anyhow. The in line is rated for 200 but I never shoot that far out. As a dedicated single shot guy I completely enjoy the in line as much if not more than the 06. If I could I would use it all season long here. I keep it a bit simpler than your article though- a saboted 50 cal projectile with 2- 50 grain pyrodex pellets. Got real sick of hearing BANG BANG BANG long ago. Always kinda figured a dedicated 'make your first shot count' attitude was the way to go- no special season needed. Only use guns with more holding capacity for ducks.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/19 22:36:29
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wayne c
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RE: Who is killing the bucks
2012/03/19 23:15:40
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You must not remember when the trout stamp hit the scene... lots of ''bad ju-ju"'' Sure do. And it wasnt even close. In intensity or longevity. Folks just learned to live with it... same as what will happen with the deer programs.. Nearly a decade now says your wrong. And I'm sure many of us will be sure to "enlighten" folks to ensure that it doesnt. folsk just do not adapt to change well Especially when there is no reason why they should accept it, and every reason not to. Id call that refusing to lie down, and fighting the good fight. The environmentalists are having their turn at the wheel having hijacked the pgc bus. But what can be screwed up can be fixed eventually. History has shown us this over and over throughout. There is plenty of will, and people just waiting to knock the environuts off their high-horse. Eventually things will align, the time and political climate will be just right and it'll come about... And Im a patient man.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/03/19 23:24:31
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