Size does matter?

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waDerboy
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2012/03/03 08:00:15 (permalink)

Size does matter?

Back to the discussion of overall size of the steelbow.
What do you think.
Did CnR cause an overall shrinkage.
Forage base the reason for "cookie cutters".
Genetics the culprit.
There is no change from the early years, we are just seeing more smaller fish caught because of increased angler hours and CnR keeping those smaller fish in the mix longer.

Dues:

http://youtu.be/cZN7zWUReeI
post edited by waDerboy - 2012/03/03 08:06:53

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    metalslayer
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 08:21:47 (permalink)
    Good ? Think it's prob a mix of all those factors,but I feel the size IS down---w/ the increase in pressure and success(mainly because of bobbers) + the increased presence of internet hero pics--you would think there would b alot of 15+ pics floatin around.

    Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
    #2
    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 09:00:55 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: metalslayer

    Good ? Think it's prob a mix of all those factors,but I feel the size IS down---w/ the increase in pressure and success(mainly because of bobbers) + the increased presence of internet hero pics--you would think there would b alot of 15+ pics floatin around.


    Payment due.
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    salmotrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 09:11:00 (permalink)
    A monster hunter cares not for cookie cutters. They have had their fill of those and wish for something more challenging.
    It would be good to have a study done on the genetics/forage base then act accordingly by either stocking less fish so the fish that do come back are bigger or change the genetics in the program. This could easily be accomplished by simply eliminating the fish in the system now and going with a pure gene pool pf bigger fish. In 5 years we would have our BIG Fish if genes play a role and it would be much more challenging than the current conditions.
    If it be forage base then the 3 fish a day limit should by all means be reinstated.
    post edited by salmotrutta - 2012/03/03 09:12:41

    Lyrical
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    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 09:19:06 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: salmotrutta

    A monster hunter cares not for cookie cutters. They have had their fill of those and wish for something more challenging.
    It would be good to have a study done on the genetics/forage base then act accordingly by either stocking less fish so the fish that do come back are bigger or change the genetics in the program. This could easily be accomplished by simply eliminating the fish in the system now and going with a pure gene pool pf bigger fish. In 5 years we would have our BIG Fish if genes play a role and it would be much more challenging than the current conditions.
    If it be forage base then the 3 fish a day limit should by all means be reinstated.



    No need to eliminate anything.
    Just taking care to be sure large females egg are covered by large bucks milt, if its genetics are the answer.

    But I digress.
    Pay the frick up or get out.
    Nobody rides for free!

    it's not lying if you believe it.
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    #5
    pistolpete76
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 09:56:07 (permalink)
    Haven't put the time on the river as you guys have but do have an observation. My friend drives to Toronto on buisness quite often. He tries to fish all the way there or back when he can.The Steel seem to be more football shaped as he goes west
    post edited by pistolpete76 - 2012/03/03 09:58:10
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    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:07:39 (permalink)


    Pete thanks for the input but please resize your pick.


    My thought is that the stockier rainheads are primarily from the "domestic" rainbow genepool.
    They tend to stay closer to shore (eating crustations) and have a more orange colored flesh.




    PS- does everybody shirk on paying their dues.
    OK its Woodstock all over again.
    The fense is cut and everybody gets in.
    Screw the ticket buyers that made it possible.
    Friggin hippies!

    it's not lying if you believe it.
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    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:13:15 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: metalslayer

    w/ the increase in pressure and success(mainly because of bobbers) + the increased presence of internet hero pics--you would think there would b alot of 15+ pics floatin around.


    scratch bobberz as major factor,

    replace wiff bobberz & beadz ----> wannabee Alaskan Tundra Nitwits...

    EASIEZT CAVEMAN RIVA STUNT known to MAN.
    **********

    PC - MEALY MINDED, DO-gooderz, wiff C&R all desirez, whilst suffoctaing FEESCH via Camera Hero-pic- Shootz------->>>> MAJOR FACTOR

    KIDDIE ZONE (a.k.a. LOWER FLY ZONE) = Happy Cookie Cutter SAPS,

    at least,

    if you really want to get away and TRY a CHALLENGE, with high odds of SKUNKAGE, but Huge REwardz pozzibilitiez

    you can always go to

    see sig line..

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    #8
    retired guy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:14:07 (permalink)
    Startin to get a bit confused- Probably cause I can rarely if ever tell the difference between a Rainbow and Steelhead. Always thought the 'redder' more football kinda fish were Bows now finding that aint necessarily so.

    Is the issue here that the Bows have crossed with the Steel genetically producing thicker shorter fishes that now dominate the waters or are we still sayin the Steel themselves have gotten smaller for whatever reason.

      When photos of larger 'Steel' are shown they rarely have maintained the 'heavy bodied' appearance and look longer and slimmer. Just as in the past .  IMHO

    Perhaps its just an old guys poor memory but 'back when' I dont recall that football look being so prevalent.

    Enlightenment please-----
    post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/03 10:16:39
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    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:15:55 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: metalslayer

    you would think there would b alot of 15+ pics floatin around.


    or alot of 15+lbers floatin down riva from the Rte 52 bridge...

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
    #10
    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:18:47 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: retired guy

    Is the issue here that the Bows have crossed with the Steel genetically producing thicker shorter fishes that now dominate the waters or are we still sayin the Steel themselves have gotten smaller for whatever reason.



    IMHO - without the need for scientific chartz,,

    THEY (hatchery Gods) MAKE TOO MANY FISH,
    ANYONE ROPING FISH are OSTRICIZED by former sportsmen who've turned coat to PETAlike behavior...

    sorry for shoutzing RT,,, but dat's my take..
    post edited by draketrutta - 2012/03/03 10:19:32

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
    #11
    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:20:11 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: pistolpete76

    Haven't put the time on the river as you guys have but do have an observation. My friend drives to Toronto on buisness quite often. He tries to fish all the way there or back when he can.The Steel seem to be more football shaped as he goes west


    dat's a nice chunkie

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
    #12
    pistolpete76
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:31:23 (permalink)
    Wader, lucky I got the pic up.Will work on resizing next time.Learning more than just fishing, here. LOL
    #13
    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 10:35:30 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: pistolpete76

    Wader, lucky I got the pic up.Will work on resizing next time.Learning more than just fishing, here. LOL



    I do azz backwards,,

    but open in MS PAINT,,

    edit - resize photo ---> pic 25 & 25 % proportions ---> perfect interweb upload size for Al Gore's interweb...

    p.s.

    this forum R the SUK for PHOTOZ - too much work,,

    perhaps the MEET THE NEW BOZZ can getz DIRECT UPLOAD from hard drive option installed ,, which ----> EAZY PEAZY...

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
    #14
    retired guy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 11:33:21 (permalink)
    Still not gettin to my question here- If those fish were way too plentiful one would think theyd be all skinny lookin- Those footballs look fat sassy and healthy. Fight well to unless its so cold out they can hardly move after the first run.
      Wader Wader- some input on the question please--------just tryin to figure out the straight lines here-
    #15
    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 11:50:28 (permalink)

    RT:

    perhaps others will chime in too,

    please forgive me for answering your question with a question:


    whatz the avg weight,length,girth #'s on the footballs you are referring to?

    close to this:



    caught not too many moons ago - mid riva...

    p.s. - notice da crowds???
    post edited by draketrutta - 2012/03/03 11:51:43

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 11:51:40 (permalink)
    Our real steelhead (referred to also as rainheads and steelbows cause west coasters whine any fish that doesn't swim in the ocean can't be a steelhead no matter that the eggs and milt came from fish that did)
    were Tacomas (Chambers Creek) and Skams.
    They are usually longer and slimmer to make long runs to west coast spawning grounds.
    "Domestic" rainbows are generally shorter and stockier.

    We now have a race of what around here are referred to as bigheads.
    Don't know if it is indesriminate practice at the hatchery or natural repo that is producing them.

    My take anyways.
    I'll try to be more specific if you have a more narrowed down question.

    it's not lying if you believe it.
    George Costanza
    #17
    retired guy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 13:08:57 (permalink)
    Wader-
    Thanks, that kinda answers it for me. Seems like the two strains have mingled some genes along the way- not really a bad thing IMHO cause I'm quite pleased to go out and catch 8/10 lb fightin fish anyplace with a chance of some kinda line breaker happenin too.
      20s are nice but -lets face it- they dropped outa the picture for a long time  and now we have what we have. Glad the State managed the rebound that they did. Lotsa work over lotsa very lean years for ANY kinda Steel to get back to where we are now.
      After all it wasnt that long ago everyone was sayin where did they 'all' go --that a long cry from 'gee where did the biguns go'.

    Hey Drake-
       That photo is a great fishie and kinda shows what my question was all about- not shaped like  a football at all. Even some smaller fish dont have that shape to them. Just a more slender look to them.
         Not that yours aint chunky and real healthy lookin-it aint no football. Could never see why the two distinctive 'looks' are so prevealent as they are all healthy lookin fishies.
          Startin to get it now with the different strains beng introduced on the rebound.
    post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/03 13:18:29
    #18
    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 14:34:18 (permalink)
    There were giant rainbows so I don't think the mixing nessiarily had much to do with it other than changing body shape not size.

    it's not lying if you believe it.
    George Costanza
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    retired guy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 15:52:41 (permalink)
    Just sittin here tryin to brain up a football rainbow as long as that Steel Drake had in the picture--Would look like 'fat Nancy".
    #20
    Clint S
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 16:52:44 (permalink)
    I have seen 1 over 15lb and caught one close to it (was over 31 inches, but fatter that the 15 I weighed). I do not know that much about the fishery, but living up here all my life I know the crowds are the biggest I have ever seen and the fish are not. Even though the majority of fisherpeople are CNR many are not and fish are being taken. My take is that these fish, especially the large ones, get that way from being a bit smarter and seeing every bait known to man thrown at you just may be showing them what not to eat. Also I would guess that genetically the weaker small fish can thrive in the hatchery and may not have in the wild diluting the gene pool. As far as footballs and torpedo's I used to do the majority of my walleye fishing fishing in Ontario and Quebec. The first time I caught an Oneida Walleye I thought it was sick due to how skinny it was compared to the pigs I caught up north. Oneida walleye = hatchery and Quebec walleye were natural repo. That with the #'s vs forage per acre of lake led to the difference I would guess.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTpUVAcvWfU



    #21
    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/03 17:17:17 (permalink)
    Finalysomeone who gets it.
    Always nice to have another dues paying member.

    http://youtu.be/i9SSOWORzw4
    post edited by waDerboy - 2012/03/04 09:51:42

    it's not lying if you believe it.
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    #22
    dimebrite
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 07:27:46 (permalink)
    I've noticed in years past that the large male rainbows almost have features like a male Chinook...im talking large though 15+.... I landed one back in 2000 I believe it was. This fish was 20+ for sure but it was hooked in the****.. it was an absolute monster. And sorry no pic to prove it ;(

    But yes, for the most part the rainbows tend to be football/torpedoes

    Clint of you like mxpx you'd probably like a number of the epitaph records and fatt wrechords bands from the late 80's in to late 90's...
    #23
    pistolpete76
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 08:41:11 (permalink)
    I don't care who you are, that fish Drake posted is a monster. I can only hope, one day....
    #24
    metalslayer
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 09:14:19 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: waDerboy

    Finalysomeone who gets it.
    Always nice to have another dues paying member.

    http://youtu.be/n89AFdcTUJY
    Kinda hard to fly a kite w/o string?

    Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
    #25
    waDerboy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 09:48:48 (permalink)
    A kite?
    I thoughit was one of those cool aerobatic stunt parachute having a terrible accident.

    it's not lying if you believe it.
    George Costanza
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    retired guy
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 10:33:18 (permalink)
    Gotta kinda chuckle Dime-
       We all hook one in the butt or a fin or somethin now and again. Too bad when its one ya cant just pop off and ya gotta wear it down a bit to release.
        Recall that fella on the other forum kinda claimin he was such a good fisherman that its only happened to him half dozen times in many years of fishin up  there. Always figured he fished about one hour a year- in a lousy spot too.
          I always compare it to shootin at the lead Duck and hittin one behind it. Stuff happens.
    post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/04 10:35:43
    #27
    metalslayer
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 16:38:17 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: waDerboy


    ORIGINAL: metalslayer

    Good ? Think it's prob a mix of all those factors,but I feel the size IS down---w/ the increase in pressure and success(mainly because of bobbers) + the increased presence of internet hero pics--you would think there would b alot of 15+ pics floatin around.


    Payment due.
    Either pay up or get out.
    This thread ain't free.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT2ZD0q3wU4&feature=endscreen&NR=1

    Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
    #28
    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 17:13:56 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: waDerboy

    A kite?
    I thoughit was one of those cool aerobatic stunt parachute having a terrible accident.


    You'll never make it to my STATUS..(Chief Nitwit of NASA (Nat'l Assembly of Slammo Assoc)...hehe

    if da don't listen to da words of MISSION CONTOL:

    there's even a magical flyin kite at the beginnzings:

    MISSION UPDATE
    EST 17:10:14 030512 MAINLINE partz unknown

    Broken discimplubulater has been re-calibrated, re-launch imminent (as predicted)..

    eta --> firma terra--> unannounced --> Suhweet sweezt surprize..

    BYE BYE AWAKKSTER BIRDZEYE BIRDIE

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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    draketrutta
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    RE: Size does matter? 2012/03/04 17:16:10 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: metalslayer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT2ZD0q3wU4&feature=endscreen&NR=1


    canz you translate

    Cierro Muchas Sin Ropaz ????

    to dat??

    que....


    yyyeeezzzhhhaaaazzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    post edited by draketrutta - 2012/03/04 17:17:01

    SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
    #30
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