Poaching

I don't mean to start a big discussion/argument but I have a question...how do you know that all of the people accused of snagging are truly snagging? I fish the tribs numerous times per year and I've been fishing regularly my entire life and unless I see someone standing over fish in very clear water ripping an inappropriate bait (i.e. oversized spinner) through a pod of fish I'm very rarely certain that what I am seeing is snagging.

What i do notice is at the end of a drift fly fishermen pulling their bait out of the water and making a ripping sound on top of the water...is this what people are considering snagging? I've always thought it was more of a reflection of poor line management skills of the angler.

Maybe I'm naive but I can only say that I've definitely seen people intentionally snagging steelhead two or three times and I fish the tribs approximately 24-30 days per year.

Again, not trying to argue...just trying to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-1IXGpD244&feature=player_embedded
 

If you read fisher1's post closer, he's actually supporting fly fisherman and saying that they aren't snagging the majority of the time when making a ripping sound pulling their bait out of the water.

I would agree with the original poster in the fact that he may be a little naive. There's a huge difference between pulling your bait out of the water and ripping at the end of every drift as hard as you can. I see anglers, on every weekend trip up in the fall, where half or more of the fish they play are hooked in the back or in the tail. Just Sayin!

Well said, and good posting.

There is a big difference between foul hooking a fish by accident when drifting a fly in a pod of fish and intentionally trying to snag fish by lining them. Loomis does a good job explaining that.

There are some who have learned from others that lining is the an appropriate way to fish for steelies and teach others to do it. This quote, "force feeding" steelies in their opinion is just fine as long as the hook ends up in the fish's mouth. If a person is intentionally trying to drift the fly or the leader into the mouth of the fish and then quickly set the hook, that is basically snagging and is no different than someone running a big lure with a treble hook through a pod of fish. The only difference is the first guy is being a bit more subtle.

When fishing smaller nymphs/emerger patters, some guys allow the fly to swing at the end of the drift to better imitate the emerger. Following this with a "J" hookset after the swing picks up fish the take the fly on the swing. It also prepares the line for an easier roll cast back upstream for the next drift, or for a downstream roll cast and a water haul back up for a longer drift ( if needed). It's actually good line management if the guy knows what he's doing. In some cases though, you're right, it's just snagging.

ORIGINAL: SimmsFlyGuy

p.s... "opening a can of worms for fly fisherman", not sure if the pun was intended there or not, but it was funny either way!

I was hoping someone would catch on to that...

I think everyone should spend more time trying to enjoy the time on the water instead of worrying about what everyone else is doing.  The PFBC Officers know people snag, line, take limits and return for a second helping.  If they were as concerned as some of the people constantly whining about the depletion of fish population they would be out more collecting the rewards from citations.  It's their responsibility to enforce not mine. I know, they have limited resources, and other things to do with their time on the clock etc.  Just making a point.
 
I have to wonder if many other things may also annually contribute to the depletion of the fish population:
 
Using leader and tippet material so light it won't support the proper landing of a fish, although fairly hooked of course, and the angler fully understanding while doing so that it's quite often not strong enough causing multiple break offs and leaving hundreds of fish with hooks and tippet material hanging out of their mouths.  No concern for the fish here but rather for the sole purpose of getting the fight and not the fish.  Is this wrong?  Does this also add to the death and depletion of the population?  As well as littering up the tribs.
 
Hooking the fish, fighting it to exhaustion, then so generously out of concern for its well being releasing it after keeping it captive long enough to get a few glory shots, only for it to endure this same process over and over again. Might this add to lower numbers as well?
 
Should there be line weight and tippet strength limits to ensure a suitable match for what you seek to catch, allowing for less play time while attempting to land the fish?  Might this assist in supporting the intentions and concerns of catching and releasing the fish unharmed?
 
This is just a different perspective, think about what you do that could be perceived by another as adding to the death of many fish as well, before crying about somebody elses tactics.  Also consider the complaints may often be raised because some feel there should be thousands of fish waiting for them when they arrive to enjoy themselves.
 
I feel a lot of the time (not all)the complaints are raised because the Angler doesn't have the experience or numbers they feel they are entitled to every time they get out on the tribs and, not truly and only out of concern for the well being of the steelhead population.
 
I do not condone the blatant snagging of fish, if you want to risk getting caught, thats your business but I'm going to enjoy my days of fishing with my friends and not concern myself with what others are doing when it comes to how they hook their fish.
 
There are plenty of fish to be had, and will continue to be. 
 
For me,   Any day on the water, fish or not, is better than any day in my office.
 
Peace all.
 
 

My apologies Steelslayer,
 
I read both threads which have similar headings and upon deciding to post my thoughts I posted in the wrong one.  The thread turning in poachers I believe had quite a bit of mention about numbers return rates and the destruction of the steelhead fisherie.  I should have posted it there.
 
As far as being a hypocrite ?  I simply offered a perspective to be considered to show there could be many reasons for the numbers annually.  Including that those who choose to release the catch could be causing quite a bit of damge as well.  It was just another look at other harm that is done simply by the act of fishing.   Don't get your self all worked up Dude.

ORIGINAL: Redfly2

I think everyone should spend more time trying to enjoy the time on the water instead of worrying about what everyone else is doing. The PFBC Officers know people snag, line, take limits and return for a second helping. If they were as concerned as some of the people constantly whining about the depletion of fish population they would be out more collecting the rewards from citations. It's their responsibility to enforce not mine. I know, they have limited resources, and other things to do with their time on the clock etc. Just making a point.

I totally agree with what redfly2 said here.

What anyone else wants to do is their business. I don't get paid to police the streams, I just fish them. Again, I personally find it hilarious when someone is blatantly snagging, especially in front of other people. What is equally as hilarious is when the citizen fisher police tell them to stop, and they just keep doing it.....sorry, but this is just a battle you cannot win. Better to just leave it to those who can.

ORIGINAL: SteelSlayer77

I'll refrain from morally judging a person over fish.

sorry, but this is just a battle you cannot win. Better to just leave it to those who can.

Spoken like true snaggers

When I morally judge someone I see on the Erie tribs because they are blatantly snagging, swearing around children, and littering; That has nothing to do with fish.

Throughout a child's life they will be to exposed people that don't follow the rules. If you set a good example for your kids yourself, then you will have nothing to worry about when it comes to their actions no matter what they are exposed to, right?

Suffice it to say, a very large majority of people are pretty much just in the way no matter what they are doing, but they do accuse those who can catch a good number of fish of being a snagger....I hope you aren't one of those people, they can be pretty salty.

I truly feel sorry for someone who has to snag a steelhead to catch it, I never understood why, but at the same time, I just don't care either.....you still aren't going to stop it.

ORIGINAL: Redfly2


  I simply offered a perspective to be considered to show there could be many reasons for the numbers annually.  Including that those who choose to release the catch could be causing quite a bit of damge as well.  It was just another look at other harm that is done simply by the act of fishing.  

I think in the last 30 years of walking the creeks, I have seen maybe 3 dead fish.
I don't think catching, releasing,leaving a fish with a hook in it's mouth, taking pictures has done much damage


Of course Elk might be different, with all the bears eating them before you find them

ORIGINAL: glen

ORIGINAL: Redfly2

I simply offered a perspective to be considered to show there could be many reasons for the numbers annually.  Including that those who choose to release the catch could be causing quite a bit of damge as well.  It was just another look at other harm that is done simply by the act of fishing.  

I think in the last 30 years of walking the creeks, I have seen maybe 3 dead fish.
I don't think catching, releasing,leaving a fish with a hook in it's mouth, taking pictures has done much damage


Of course Elk might be different, with all the bears eating them before you find them

Glen I couldn't agree more ... as cold as the water temperature remains for the majority of the season and ( higher dissolved oxygen content in the water ) ..... Not many fish die from photos or " over play". I could understand this theory in late September when water temps are 60 degrees plus and agree ; however these fish are hardy in water below 60 degrees .

If one chooses to use 2 lb test and loose alot of tackle I am all for it and the fish will bite my 8lb test the next day : ) I've seen at most 20 dead fish total since October while steelhead fishing 5 out of 7 days a week since September . A few hours after work M-Thurs and constantly Fri-Sun ..... Them bears are quick you know .....

As for the snaggars ..... go to the chutes on Walnut Creek above Manchester hole in Oct - Nov . between 5 am & 7 am and you will see them at it ( 5-10 people with ropes ).

I have heard the multiple limit gang has been selling these fish for $10 each to someone from the south . Good luck infiltrating their click ..... If you want to observe wait for some rain and show up at this time you will be enlightened ..... as always remember they are just dumb fish .

I wanted to add to fly guys whipping their line. I've seen that happen sometimes if their indicator stops and they miss it and catch it on the tail end than try to set the hook only to have their line coming whipping out

Ditto......something like what he said above!