ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

Totally understand your position RG.

I guess the only point I have to make is.

We as hunters only have what is printed in the "written" game code to go by and be law abiding hunters.

There seems to be alot of WCO discretion and Grey area in many of our game laws.
As many say it all depends on your WCO.
In my eyes it shouldn't be that way, some get off and some do not. The law should be enforced acrooed the board equally for all. Then we "all" know what that standard is and can adhere to it.


We have someone here who was present at the dicussions when this law was written.
There must have been some reasoning at the time to add that language to the bill.
We are not hearing that.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

Am I missing something here...

are some of you really suggesting that it is okay to be within a safety zone just because you are higher than the building ??????

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

"To use your speeding example, there is no interpretation of the law involved at all -- it says what it says, the speed limit is X, anything in excess of X is a violation of the law. That is pretty clear. If the LE decides to enforce that law to the letter and tickets anyone at X + a mph or decides to show lienency and only tickets those at X + 10 mph is a mtter of enforcement, not the interpretation of the law. Further, since the law is very clear, if a person is violating it, they know that they can be subjected to ticketing."

Just FYI,
It is actually stated in PA law that a LEO can't ticket you for less than 6 mph over the limit while using any speed measuring device and for less than 10 mph over the posted limit on roads posted less than 55 mph max speed limit(unless you are in a school zone). In any case, if you are in PA and got a ticket for 5 mph or less over the limit on posted 55 mph roads or 9 mph or less over the limit on roads with a posted max limit that was less than 55 mph, you should have contested the ticket.

Title 75 - Section 3368
(c) Mechanical, electrical and electronic devices authorized.--
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, the rate of
speed of any vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police
officer using a mechanical or electrical speed timing device.
(2) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), electronic
devices such as radio-microwave devices (commonly referred to as
electronic speed meters or radar) may be used only by members of
the Pennsylvania State Police.
(3) Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring
elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two
sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average
speed of a vehicle between any two points may be used by any
Police officer.
(4) No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through
the use of devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the
speed recorded is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal
speed limit. Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon
evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph
(3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55
miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour
in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply
to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by
paragraph (3) within a school zone.

Interesting to note, you can't be nailed for speeding within 500 ft. of sign that drops the speed limit. Some exclusions apply.

(e) Distance requirements for use of mechanical, electrical and
electronic devices.--Mechanical, electrical or electronic devices may
not be used to time the rate of speed of vehicles within 500 feet after
a speed limit sign indicating a decrease of speed. This limitation on
the use of speed timing devices shall not apply to speed limit signs
indicating school zones, bridge and elevated structure speed limits
hazardous grade speed limits and work zone speed limits.
1976, June 17, P.L. 162, No. 81, § 1, effective July 1, 1977. Amended 1985
July 11, P.L. 204, No. 52, § 3, imd. effective; 1986, March 27, P.L. 71, No.
24, § 2, imd. effective.

Check out this link for some quick calculations on how ineffective VASCAR really is when you factor in typical and even super human reaction times. The 9 mph buffer for VASCAR really isn't even enough when all things are considered, scientifically.

http://travel.3dresearch.com/prep1.html


Any way, to get OT, I believe the wording of the safety zone law should be amended to make it CRYSTAL clear on its intent. Not saying the DJ is right or wrong in his interpretation but if there is room for interpretation in something seemingly so simple as a safety zone, then the wording needs to be amended.

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

I know dardys, just me being a richard head!

ya have time now and then for that kinda enforcement.

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

I know dardys, just me being a richard head!

I'm sorry Sir but that position is already filled.

Lots of room in the Goons and Thugs ranks though....

ORIGINAL: ready2fish

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

"To use your speeding example, there is no interpretation of the law involved at all -- it says what it says, the speed limit is X, anything in excess of X is a violation of the law. That is pretty clear. If the LE decides to enforce that law to the letter and tickets anyone at X + a mph or decides to show lienency and only tickets those at X + 10 mph is a mtter of enforcement, not the interpretation of the law. Further, since the law is very clear, if a person is violating it, they know that they can be subjected to ticketing."

Just FYI,
It is actually stated in PA law that a LEO can't ticket you for less than 6 mph over the limit while using any speed measuring device and for less than 10 mph over the posted limit on roads posted less than 55 mph max speed limit(unless you are in a school zone). In any case, if you are in PA and got a ticket for 5 mph or less over the limit on posted 55 mph roads or 9 mph or less over the limit on roads with a posted max limit that was less than 55 mph, you should have contested the ticket.

Title 75 - Section 3368
(c) Mechanical, electrical and electronic devices authorized.--
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, the rate of
speed of any vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police
officer using a mechanical or electrical speed timing device.
(2) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), electronic
devices such as radio-microwave devices (commonly referred to as
electronic speed meters or radar) may be used only by members of
the Pennsylvania State Police.
(3) Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring
elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two
sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average
speed of a vehicle between any two points may be used by any
Police officer.
(4) No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through
the use of devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the
speed recorded is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal
speed limit. Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon
evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph
(3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55
miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour
in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply
to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by
paragraph (3) within a school zone.

Interesting to note, you can't be nailed for speeding within 500 ft. of sign that drops the speed limit. Some exclusions apply.

(e) Distance requirements for use of mechanical, electrical and
electronic devices.--Mechanical, electrical or electronic devices may
not be used to time the rate of speed of vehicles within 500 feet after
a speed limit sign indicating a decrease of speed. This limitation on
the use of speed timing devices shall not apply to speed limit signs
indicating school zones, bridge and elevated structure speed limits
hazardous grade speed limits and work zone speed limits.
1976, June 17, P.L. 162, No. 81, § 1, effective July 1, 1977. Amended 1985
July 11, P.L. 204, No. 52, § 3, imd. effective; 1986, March 27, P.L. 71, No.
24, § 2, imd. effective.

Check out this link for some quick calculations on how ineffective VASCAR really is when you factor in typical and even super human reaction times. The 9 mph buffer for VASCAR really isn't even enough when all things are considered, scientifically.

http://travel.3dresearch.com/prep1.html


Any way, to get OT, I believe the wording of the safety zone law should be amended to make it CRYSTAL clear on its intent. Not saying the DJ is right or wrong in his interpretation but if there is room for interpretation in something seemingly so simple as a safety zone, then the wording needs to be amended.

Pretty spot on except for one small thing. There is one time when an officer could cite you for 1 mph over the speed limit. An officer following you in a Police vehicle with a properly certified speedometer, and follows you for at least 3/10 mile, can cite for 1 or more mph over. It is a mechanical device but not covered under paragraphs 2 or 3, it falls under paragraph one.

I also concur, I'd like to see the safety zone law's language cleaned up some.