Lucky13
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RE: Half full
2012/02/29 19:37:02
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RG- The biologists at the SOL were flabergasted about the C+R. They said they could understand the RT and BT C+R, but the salmon were going to die anyway, and a large percentage of them were returned to fight again, or stink up someone's back yard. On the other hand, it was a good 25 years ago that I realized I was getting too old to carry 3 20+ lb fish up the stairs at Douglaston, regardless of how many people back at home said they wanted them. And for the 1/2 mile uphill at the Genesee, we very early invited anyone who wanted a salmon to accompany us down the hill so they could carry (or drag)it back up! But as you say, amazing numbers, over a million angler hours on the tribs, over 250,000 trips, and about 65% on the SR. And, on the large tribs, about 65% non-resident, which plumps up the conservation fund a lot faster than us homies. And only about 9% harvest on chrome! L13
post edited by Lucky13 - 2012/02/29 19:38:01
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/02/29 22:24:12
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Kinda says guys are puttin fun and future in front of food- OK n my book and those released King fishes may just have gotten to lay and eggie here and there too- Future future.
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draketrutta 
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RE: Half full
2012/02/29 22:35:53
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
  Near similar numbers on Steel too.
    They say the fisherman numbers are back up to those of the horrid trebble hook snaggin days of old too. They also say - that there is a very large percentage of C&R going on- now thats a new twist from those old snaggin days when most everyone kept most everything. GOOD DEAL.
  I beg to differ and toss other hand of cards on table.. BAD DEAL QUALITY <> QUANTITY.. Different Strokes - some guys dig #'s (as in quantity) other dig #'s per scale... ... Kindly post up (you and anyone else) the # of BONA-FIDE (not xpurt guesstimatez) 20lberz Steelzfeesch caught and pic'd from the Salmon Riva in da last 2 years - from all the SR -related fishy sites... a.k.a. since the BS Kubaya C&R Craze/Reg Creel Limit reduction - in a Man-Made Tailwater 13 mile Hatchery ladder came to fruition... I will gladly and happily donate $20 to your favorite charity for every instance produced. Years ago it was not uncommon.. These dayz = chances = LOTTO HIT. Different Strokes,,, just My Opinion, worth 2 centz, but I had to spill a bit of black goop on da Chamer of Commerce report...(I blame the hornet nestinz inside me  ).. later
SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/02/29 22:44:39
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WAYYYYY back when I first started fishin the SR very large Steel were in fact common. They hit garden hackle on the spinnin rod kinda well too so it was a real nice intro to the Sr for me- kept me commin back. Kept a male once that when the head was cut off -behind the front fins- the fish curled its tail and rear end up on the side of the frig when placed in sideways. Never weighed it but hadda be up and close to what your talkin bout here. Generally just kept some smaller ones for the pan though- seemed to taste better. My first was what ya would call a cookie today and there were not very many around smaller and there were a lot around. That changed in a coupa years and they became hard to find for a LONG time. CRASHHHHH. Makes me happy to see what we have now- cookies or not-and look forward to the eventual showing of larger fish as they get OLD- I know I got a lot larger when I aged so I guess they will too. Dont personally buy into the inclination that their numbers or the lakes food sources keep them down in size- everything else seems to grow to its potential and cant see why the Steel cant do it too. I was wrong one time a few years ago for the first time so could be maybe one time again but I doubt it. BTW- think if ya took a look at the fish bein shown on guide reports and forum photos from 2 or 3 years ago compared to now a 'cookie' may well have gotten a bit larger on average- even makin exceptions for those held out front shots.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/02/29 23:05:47
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waDerboy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 03:48:59
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Could it be that the reason for more "cookie cutters" is that for years the run had deminished to a point where the DEC had no choice but to take eggs from any fish that made it to the holding tanks?
Really doesn't matter how much food is on the table, if little Johnie has genes that say he will be 5'7" with a slim build, while he could get fatter eating more won't make him any taller.
These fish don't look underfed. They are just smaller.
it's not lying if you believe it. George Costanza
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salmotrutta
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 05:04:13
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agreed. maybe they should dispose of them all and get some better genes.
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chosenfrozen1
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 09:41:04
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could methods play a part? years ago it was running plugs and bouncing egg's now its beads and eggs on floats.another thing i think is the river has changed many times and it is still fished in the same spots,i have done well the past two years with fish over 12lbs. and some over 15.none were in the holes that i fished 30 years ago. i bottom bounce egg's most of the time and have to do a lot of walking to get to small pockets that i have found bigger fish in.most people walk past them because they are small holding pockets not big holes that hold large #'s of fish.
a jerk on one end of a line waiting for a jerk on the other!
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 10:17:32
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Right on Chosen- lot of the photos available on line at the Whitakers photo thingie and those by the guide services that come on regularly are fish that appear over 10 lbs and they keep on comin too- no trick photos- the real things- Lotsa the fish photos regular guys put out are great as well. It aint like its all 5 pounders all the time. Also agree that the Steel today have a lot more pressure than long ago-Sometimes in Aprils past ya could fish hours without seein anyone else- not now.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/01 13:45:09
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 14:08:06
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I think the avg is down---been a while since I've hooked or even seen a real 20#---even 15+ r pretty scarce these days.
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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chosenfrozen1
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 15:10:01
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another thing about this year,at least for me,is that 90% of my fish were caught below town.they were bigger than cookies they were 20 fish 10-12,10 12-15 and 2 15 lb.(i keep a log)also saw lots of fish well over 10-15 landed and i lost some big fish.in the mid to upper river the fish seemed to get smaller this season. for me fish over 10 in the mid river were few and far between.i don't fish the upper very often so i can't judge but have heard up to 18lbs. in the wires in november.the last 20 i saw was last year in 1500cfs.i had it jumping 5 ft.in front of me but could not turn it once it hit its back to the lake mode and that was that.i have caught 3 20lb. fish and this was the biggest i have had on by far.
a jerk on one end of a line waiting for a jerk on the other!
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waDerboy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 15:32:37
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More fishermen + a 1 fish limit+more CnR= the same 6-8 pounder being caught and seen more often, no doubt about it, but the % of larger fish is definately lower than in the early to mid 80s. Like in breeding horses, if you breed the biggest, strongest, fastest male to the biggest, strongest, fastest female you will get more large, strong, fast offspring than you will with indescriminate breeding. I slept in a La Quinta last night.
post edited by waDerboy - 2012/03/01 15:39:02
it's not lying if you believe it. George Costanza
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 15:43:03
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That's why I wish they would take the eggs in the DSR--the ones that make it to the hatchery prob didn't bite---it's the non-aggressive fish theory 
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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waDerboy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 15:49:39
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How about what I have seen done on the west coast.
The DSR allows acess for limited fishermen that fish, looking for large specimen and keeping them in large PVC tubes until a driftboat with a livewell comes and picks them up, shuttles them to hatchery trucks at Pinegrove to take them to the hatchery.
it's not lying if you believe it. George Costanza
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 16:13:21
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ORIGINAL: waDerboy
How about what I have seen done on the west coast.
The DSR allows acess for limited fishermen that fish, looking for large specimen and keeping them in large PVC tubes until a driftboat with a livewell comes and picks them up, shuttles them to hatchery trucks at Pinegrove to take them to the hatchery.
I'd b down for that----don't keep any(untill I beat 22+)
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 16:22:47
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ORIGINAL: hot tuna
Guess the big challenge might be seeing if one can fool them under pressure..lol..
Naaah---in my 25yrs or so the upper river has always been the easiest place to " get " into steel 
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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chosenfrozen1
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 16:25:26
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forgot to mention those fish were all released.
a jerk on one end of a line waiting for a jerk on the other!
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 16:35:17
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Agreed---don't fish salmon azzholes 2 elbows--sure aint doing it for steel---kinda riuns MY experience---tend to walk away from crowds these days--even if it means less fish or a lesser spot
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 17:00:40
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All this up and down stuff is easily answered- see whats up at the hatchery and ask the Biologist up there how many bruisers are around at egg time. Betcha (there is that Palin thingie again) they get mo bigies than we may think. Another nasty thought is that during the 'Lining' season those bigger fish are easier to 'hit' tryin to run the gauntlet-specially with all the 40 lb test stuff goin on. Heard a obvious snagger out backa the Soccer fields in early season yellin- "can you believe that fish broke a 40 lb test line on me" - yelled it out a bunch of times for all to hear -some kinda twisted logic goin on there..
post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/01 17:03:26
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waDerboy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 17:04:38
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ORIGINAL: hot tuna
ORIGINAL: waDerboy
How about what I have seen done on the west coast.
The DSR allows acess for limited fishermen that fish, looking for large specimen and keeping them in large PVC tubes until a driftboat with a livewell comes and picks them up, shuttles them to hatchery trucks at Pinegrove to take them to the hatchery.
WB, thats pretty radical bro and I have no idea but is it not for wild fish as well as trying to save the fishery ? Again a question without a clue..
- 3 Exactly what was going on on the west coast Tman. Trying to revive runs of wild fish in deimated rivers. Breeders were used once and then released. That meant no hatchery plants were more than 1 generation away from wild. I can think of no reason it couldn't be done here in an attempt to get larger, and as Slayer said, biting fish into the hatchery gene pool. I have nothing against 6-8 pond fish but I do believe the overall size of the steelhead has gotten smaller. Lucky can you relate the story of the day you, me and kieth were busy with doubles and triples all day when Jimmie Rusher asked us to keep one for his scale. To jog your memory we had told him we thought they were 12-13 pounds since we were jaded from catching kings. PS this was not a 1 day event it was how it was regularly.
it's not lying if you believe it. George Costanza
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 17:35:03
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Hey - A bit of perspective on the 1980s stuff- When I first started out used to fish above the island a lot right where the Tressel North road starts- dont know the proper name for that area. Jim* from Whitakers sent me there and I stuck it out for a few years- Why wreck what works. Aside from some drift boats comin through and fishing those spawn grounds ya could be there for hours without anybody else showin up and ya could fish to whatever fish you could see out there with Garden Hackle with nice results too. Now a days when driving by in April and lookin down there is most always a crowd. Could kinda pick and choose what fishes ya wanted to go for - more or less. When others did show up- usually somebody droppin by after work -we all kept our distance and were real polite about it too. Point bein lotsa fish and little pressure and the ability to sometimes pick and choose targets without them bein chased and pushed half to death by hordes of guys snaggin them and herding etc etc. They bit better and more often too as the result of that quieter condition..Not dissimilar to early Kings hittin well in DSR and shuttin down as they move up with all the pressure. If ya only wanted biggies it was a real chance to simply target them. They were certainly there. Now I aint sayin it was bathtub guaranteed conditions but it was far more 'pure' and distinctive. Aint NO comparison to todays fishin and I am NOT sayin today is bad- just different that those days were.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/01 17:41:43
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 20:24:54
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Nahhh- its a great fishery -in many ways much better than before--- nothing wrong with some memories though. Sides ya always recall the good days and never the bad- thats what makes them so good. Fact is I cant fish real high water worth a darn and got rained outa my annual Spring 2 day trip real often way back.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/01 20:27:31
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draketrutta
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 20:42:24
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
Fact is I cant fish real high water worth a darn and got rained outa my annual Spring 2 day trip real often way back.
why not? not like I'm telling you sonmething you don't know: grid system visualization, start close, you'd be surprised what may lie in the first few squares that hugg the inside banks.. beauty part - your knees should stay dry - if you're doing it right...
SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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retired guy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/01 23:54:15
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Agree with the TOILET. Still cant see why with all that useage and the great cash flow info in that State report more facilities cant be present and regularly-even daily-cared for by the State of NY on this most popular resource. Any State Park or other grounds even remotely receiving similar usage as compared to any singular parking lot on this river would be cared for with regular trash pickup from containers and bathroom facilities. Betcha Selkirk Shores doesnt get the usage or revenue income this river produces for the State and it has such facilities spread over many acres and a full time crew. For that matter one would suspect that a great deal of Selkirks later Camping is influenced by fishermen at the SR.
post edited by retired guy - 2012/03/01 23:59:37
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salmotrutta
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 00:38:22
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Offensive posts deleted. Man, do I like this new salmo and salmo finds attackers offensive. 
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waDerboy
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 02:45:49
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
    Agree with the TOILET. Still cant see why with all that useage and the great cash flow info in that State report more facilities cant be present and regularly-even daily-cared for by the State of NY on this most popular resource.
   Any State Park or other grounds even remotely receiving similar usage as compared to any singular parking lot on this river would be cared for with regular trash pickup from containers and bathroom facilities.
   Betcha Selkirk Shores doesnt get the usage or revenue income this river produces for the State and it has such facilities spread over many acres and a full time crew.
   For that matter one would suspect that a great deal of Selkirks later Camping is influenced by fishermen at the SR.
I would assume that being a STATE park the land on which Selkirk shores sits is owned by the state. Would take a heap of eminent domain suits for that to be the case with the river.
it's not lying if you believe it. George Costanza
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draketrutta
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 06:07:51
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RT Another nasty thought is that during the 'Lining' season those bigger fish are easier to 'hit' tryin to run the gauntlet-specially with all the 40 lb test stuff goin on. ************************************** Want a more nastier thought: The shoulder-to-shoulder Drop-Back Heros - (ya know - DEC's latest target audience to ring cash register) who abuse worn-out-emancipated fish, over & over & over to provide hourz of two-legged empty-headed riva chubbies,, I BET DAY KILL MANY Bruisers that won't BE BACK.. you can betcha the #'s are substantial... Half-wits using Half-Crawlers to Hero-Pic Half-Starved Steelfish = FRAGILE SEE THROUGH DARN SHAME.. but at least the Gulls are well fed - they gotta beef up to raise the next generation of Gulls (thanks to the Chubsterz all is well in GullLAND). 
post edited by draketrutta - 2012/03/02 06:12:49
SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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draketrutta
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 06:09:25
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p.s. RT..
just curious, did you get any more replies from "Dignitaries" regarding your trash letters?
Inquiring Minds and all..
SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 06:23:32
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Carphd will tell him why there aint no cans---fish guts give him nightmares 
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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metalslayer
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 06:57:15
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Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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draketrutta
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RE: Half full
2012/03/02 07:17:10
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p.s. before these posts get zapped.. HT - GROW A SACK and STOP WHINING... CEASE POSTING "This Sucks" "I don't Like" , "I'm crying like a baby". and the nonsense will stop... you were told that REPEATEDLY already by several people.. try Qtips - that waxy ADK build-up may be preventing the messages from reaching your whiner mellon-contentz. .
SR Glass Hole - Where Fragile, See-Through Ego's get BROKEN.
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