2B SLUGS/ARCHERY ONLY

Why can,t 2b just be slugs archery only
i live in the northern part of 2b and the deer here should b on the endagerd list
i love hunting but reducing the herd to 1 deer per sq mile is wrong imo
i disagree w/ the exstened doe in let alone the use of rifels in 2B {late season should be primative weapons only]
If we live in 2b then the law should be equal for all its just wrong that one guy has to use a slug gun in allegheny while hunters outside allegheny but still in 2b use rifels

Commissioner Schlemmer was willing to entertain the discussion about a year ago but I think that discussion died. He may be a good one to contact to see where he stands on it at the moment. 

2B should only be Allegheny Co. and slug and bow.The small parts of Beaver,Butler and Washington co. Get a real pounding,it's just crazy.

harrison hills is in allegheny co i hunt on a small piece of property near there i still see deer in that area now across the river less than a mile from hhp the deer pop is near neil
this is the problem small areas where hunting is restricted and anti hunters live are still over populated and pgc thinks because they issue so many permits people will go there they dont they go on open hunting grounds an hammer the doe w/ rifels
if the surrounding areas that u hunt where open to rifels and unlimited tags till the end of jan
those numders would dwindle even faster than u think
now with all that said if 2b was archery only for the exstended season i feel more hunters would go to the more populated areas where they have better odds of getting a doe than areas where all they have to do is see one to get a shot off

The majority of the deer in 2B is either on private property with NO hunting access or in the suburban neighborhoods with NO hunting access due to safety zones. 

There are areas in the suburbs where the deer numbers are high and bowhunting is only allowed but most bowhunters fail to do their duty.  They would much rather sit, wait, pick and choose on the big bucks instead of taking a doe or 2 and trying to help control the deer pop. in that particular area.

2B needs to be reduced in size and managed accordingly.   More than half of 2B in a metro area, do we need deer at all in the metro area?  Why is there even a antler restriction in 2B??? 

      I also agree 2B needs better management. Here in the bottom of Allegheny county we have several hundred acres of open to the public hunting. Channel 4 broadcasts it every year. 900 acres of Consol property and 400 of the Triple B farm, plus lots more. The first week it looks like a pumpkin patch. I don't feel safe so I hunt a private farm in 2c first two days. My buddies however love to hunt here....saves gas and time. They met a group of Amish people that come down here and slaughter as many as they can. They bring 2 or 3 vans and pull a flat trailer. My buddy counted 14 on the trailer, I believe it was the first Saturday. I ran into 4 guys from Cambria County and they said they don't see anything up their way so they come down here. Between the 4 of them they took 6 out in one day and said they would be back for more. If you got the enough guys to drive them out you can see plenty. Also some strong legs as everything is a hill or hollow. If you hunt solo or with just one or two buddies you will probably be lucky to see anything. I used to hunt Jefferson Boro, but 43 took out my favorite hunting spot.
    Archers, smoke poles and slugs yes. BUT let's limit the number of doe tags per hunter. Also why can an archer take a buck in extended season but an flint lock hunter cannot?
   OH yeah, if you think only slug guns are used down here you are delusional.
I've ran into several guys over the years with rifles on their shoulders. WCO's can't be everywhere..........

ORIGINAL: BIG WAGS

Also why can an archer take a buck in extended season but an flint lock hunter cannot?
 

 
They can. Late archery, flintlock and extended antlerless all run concurrent and end on the same day in the SRA.
 
Just got to have the right tag and license.

ORIGINAL: S-10

Not to rain on your parade but you fellows do realize that a fairly extensive study actually done by a research outfit in Pennsylvania found that slug guns are just as dangerous as rifles and there is really no reason to use them in populated areas other than to satisfy a incorrect perception that they are safer than rifles.

I remember it well. Study did show that the perception among non-hunters is that shotguns are safer than high power.  Statistics prove that wrong.

But, the discussion in this thread is not about the safety issue but about the use of high power by hunters with virtually unlimited tags for almost 7 weeks.  I guess the question is then is high power more effective than shotgun if all others factors are equal?  You know Ohio rather well.  Would the legalization of high power for deer affect the harvest during firearms?

I have no expereince hunting deer in shotgun only states but my guess would be what you conclude. 
 
With some rural parts of 2B be in the high power areas, unlimited tags, easier access and a 7 week season is taking its toll. 

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: S-10

Not to rain on your parade but you fellows do realize that a fairly extensive study actually done by a research outfit in Pennsylvania found that slug guns are just as dangerous as rifles and there is really no reason to use them in populated areas other than to satisfy a incorrect perception that they are safer than rifles.

I remember it well. Study did show that the perception among non-hunters is that shotguns are safer than high power.  Statistics prove that wrong.

But, the discussion in this thread is not about the safety issue but about the use of high power by hunters with virtually unlimited tags for almost 7 weeks.  I guess the question is then is high power more effective than shotgun if all others factors are equal?  You know Ohio rather well.  Would the legalization of high power for deer affect the harvest during firearms?

 
I would suspect that any deer shot and killed with a shotgun with slugs would also be shot and killed with a rifle (rare exception would be extremely close to the animal limb hit that would deflect a slug, but disintegrate a rifle bullet), while not all deer shot and killed with a rifle would necessarily be killed with a shotgun, especially at distance.  Yes a modern slug gun is fairly accurate, but physics has not reversed itself and gravity still proves that the earth sucks.  The drop of a heavier, slower slug becomes quite the X-factor (no singing permitted) when 100 yards is eclipsed, 200 yards becomes a reality, 300 yards is the only options, and 400 yards is still within the realm of possiblities -- particularly if that distance is unknown to within 25 yards or so at the moment of truth.  Almost any modern rifle of any decent velocity (and especially any magum caliber rifle) with good optics can turn an inch high or two inch high 100 yard zero (depending on claiber) into a muzzle to 300 yard still-on-the-animal hold, while the sluggun cannot.  Now, whether the shooter can make the shot is another story. 
 
I shot an antlerless deer two years ago off a shooting stick rest that was later ranged at 419 yards.  It was a top-of-the-back hold with my Remington Sendro in 300 Weatherby Magnum (zeroed 2 inches high at 100 yards).  Take any sluggun you want with a box of ammo (presuming the deer doesn't bolt at the first shot)and good luck on making that shot.
 
Since switching from primarily woods hunting to farm hunting my shots have grown from the previously normal 50 yards to bwtween 150 (the shortest) to the above mentioned over 400, with most falling somewhere in the 175 to 225 range.  Not too difficult to do with a rifle, much harder with a shotgun.
 
 

Also, aren't gun seasons in those states generally more along the lines of 7-10 days long, instead of 2 weeks?

In many cases yes although you have to look at the entire season structure. For example in Ohio their gun season for bucks is 9 days as compared to our 12. However, they also have a weekend gun season for youth that includes all bucks and also their archery season runs from late Sept through the first week in Feb and 35% of their deer kill is during archery.
As a general rule I think the facts do show that rifles are a much more effective weapon for killing deer than shotguns, the exception being in states or areas where the majority of cover is just too thick for the advantages of the rifles long range accuracy to come into play.
I have a shotgun set up with a rifled barrel and pistol scope that I will kill any stationary deer at 150 yards just as easily as you will with your rifle. At 250 yards I'll take a pass.

  Have shot a few with a 12 ga slug and always considered it to be a very good Deer projectile. That said all were well within 1oo yds.
  Most do not have the will or expertise to shoot much over 100 even with a modern rifle thus making the slug gun - specially the modern ones- at least equal to a rifle in the hands of the average hunter.
  Few of us have the skills or experience that Dar has when shooting distance therefore IMHO a slug gun is in fact generally not much of a deal breaker when considering where to hunt with those restrictions. Same here in Ct with similar restrictions on State lands.

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

Get rid of the extended antlerless season outside of the Orange belt (see this link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Allegheny_County_Belt_System.png) and most of the concerns go away, I think. Need to pick off a road to complete the "loop" in the South but that would probably do it.  Populations in the County parks are already managed by WMA, for the most part, so they shouldn't factor into it.

This

It all depends on the type of hunting and shooting your used to doing. If you ding chucks in the summer at 250+ a deer sized critter with a rifle is a piece of cake. If you dust off the old shooter the weekend before deer season and shoot a couple times to make sure it still does then perhaps you should pass on long shots. I know a couple long range shooters that will shoot a standing deer at 500 yds with no problem. I'am not one of them. My longest shot on a buck with the sabot and rifled barrel was a measured 140 yds. With the rifle about 3 times that. That was a couple pair of glasses ago.

RG,
 
The wide open is quite a change from the woods hunting I did for the bulk of my PA deer hunting experiences.  In the past, with the exception of a power line, the most I could see in the woods was about 150 or so and most shots were well under 100.  But a required change in hunting venues meant a change to hunting more agrarian places such as bean fields, cut corn, mown hay, and warm season grass fields.  With this change distance became more of a factor.  I won't say it is any more "fun" than woods hunting, though.
 
In actuality, I prefer to hear a deer crunching in from behind me; let it pass by my stand location; identify it as legal (something that got more difficult with AR); pick a spot; and make the shot -- all within a half minute or less most of the time.  Watching deer and not being able to take a shot isn't my thing -- that is one of the reasons I am not an archery hunter -- I fish to catch fish and I hunt to shoot things -- and just watching, sometimes for a very long time and not being able to get a shot just isn't my cup of tea.
 
Where I was set up this year, I could see about 1,000 yards.  With the location of certain things -- distant buildings, farm animals, rural roads, etc., even with that much open, there were limited zones of fire.  Those zones of fire were also subject to topograghy, the normal deer travel passages, the approach one had to make into the area in order not to cause a change in travel passages, cover that made deer disappear like magic, and how quickly deer would appear or travel through an area.  In other words, I got to see deer moving way too fast for a shot at the distance provided; saw deer way too far for an ethical shot (I had my sporter weight rifle, not my sniper gun); didn't see deer soon enough to set up for a distance shot; the deer didn't offer the proper angle for a shot; they changed their normal route and never offered a shot; etc.  Of the 63 deer I saw there in the three days I hunted that property (before the "and you keep whining about the number of deer" bashers start, keep in mind that this is a highly specialized situation with four properties [I get to hunt one] comprising about 3,000 acres of highly posted, patroled, and closed ground with maybe a dozen hunters over the course of the season, so it is not indicative of the number of deer seen on public or private open-to-hunting properties in the area or my woods area in which I saw a total of seven deer in two days of hunting), I had acceptable shooting opportunities on three.  Of the three, one was an antlered deer, which is off limits to me on this property, so that meant there were two available shots.  Had I seen that number of deer in my woods area, which I did before AR/HR, there would have been more than likely 50+ available shots.
 
So, fun, I don't know, at least for me.  What one has to do to get a deer in my area of PA these days, yeah.