The scrub buck

There is only one that could be called a scrub buck and in reality he might have the same or even better genes than either of the other two. He is just a lot younger. When he is as old as the other two he might be bigger then either of them.
 R.S. Bodenhorn

The first two are cull bucks,save the spiked in 6-7 years he may be 180 class buck as RSB states.He looks like something the PGC wants in there breeding program.I have about 5 or 6 that look like him or up to 6 pts with very small 8 inch spread in my woods behind my house,can't wait till next year theres going to be some monsters out back as RSB states.I've seen the pattern every year 5-6 dinks and 1 good one,this year the good one got kill by a car the Saterday before gun season a 100 yard from my front door.

The third one looks like a 1.5 year old with spikes. He should be a 4 pt at this age




Inferior genes

While the spike may or may not be a poor gened scrub the basket rack eight point he didn't get on camera because someone has it in their freezer most likely was a good gened buck that you want in the gene pool. If you were trying to build a basketball team and had picked the woman to have the kids would you mate her with a Bryant or Shack or would you mate her with Tiny Tim or Pee Wee Herman.

I'd shoot the first one this year, the second one next year and the third one the year after that.  Probably all be about the same size. 

I think I posted those same thoughts.. sure it improves the odds but it is not guaranteed.

Plus in the wild, more than one buck could breed a doe.. so there is no way of knowing what genes will be pasted on...

not at the deer farms I know of.. the "special does" and "master bucks" are kept away from the main herd...


A decent buck or even several will have their antlers cut off and may be set free to roam and breed other does in the breeding herd.. but the money makers are always separated

and do not forget on a deer farm the deer feed and are cared for better than any natural wild habitat ANYWHERE and come spring that's when protein and food start to make antlers on our bucks... it's not all about genes...

On a farm or at outfitters ... the deer eat as well in Jan, Feb, Mar as they do in spring summer and fall....

LoL, everyone knows bucks don't get bigger with age, that is just something people who want a balanced herd(M:F) want you to believe.  I would do anything to go back to the days of seeing 20 doe and one four point the first morning.  Those were great times.  Back when a 2.5 year old 8 point drew the neighbors in.  I hate seeing 3 or 4 young bucks and having to wait to pull the trigger on their dad or older brother.  Really burns me up.

ORIGINAL: tippecanoe

LoL, everyone knows bucks don't get bigger with age, that is just something people who want a balanced herd(M:F) want you to believe.  I would do anything to go back to the days of seeing 20 doe and one four point the first morning.  Those were great times.  Back when a 2.5 year old 8 point drew the neighbors in.  I hate seeing 3 or 4 young bucks and having to wait to pull the trigger on their dad or older brother.  Really burns me up.

"Back when a 2.5 year old 8 point drew the neighbors in"

I remember those days too. I also remember only seeing one or two 3.5+ year olds killed in all the years I hunted before AR. Now there's a few killed in my area every year.

Easy to say that the buck kill was so high since the deer population was overpopulated at that time and everything was legal (well spikes 3" and above and any branched antler).

The buck kill had been rising and kept rising througth the entire decade of the nineties and right op until HR was started.
Per the PGC-- we acheive our GREATEST buck kill at levels 60% of Max carrying capacity. We were acheiving our greatest buck kill in 2000 and 2001.
If there was such a overpopulation in relation to the available feed then why were we putting the greatest amount of bucks in the states record books. They should have been starving, stunted runts.

As far as seeing when and where on the book bucks simply log on totheir website and read away or buy the book that just came out also from the PGC.

How did your relation on the hill do this season? Wasn't much shooting from that direction.

This might not have any real value in determining how many big bucks are being harvested in the area but I thought I would post it anyway since some might find it interesting.
 
The local newspapers have held a big buck contest every year since 2005. It doesn’t cost anything to enter and every year the winner takes away several thousand dollars in cash and prizes that include a free mount of their trophy. This year there were more youth entries since they added a mentor youth class this year and it appears there were more youth entries in both the mentor and youth divisions than in past years. I’m not sure if that influenced the number of entries, if more people are getting involved or if they actually harvested more bucks this year. There are now three divisions, mentored youth, youth and the adult division.
 
Following is the number of entries each year and the average number of points for all entries.
 
Year____________# of entries________________Average points
 
2005_____________53________________________9.32
2006_____________91________________________8.87
2007_____________61________________________8.23
2008_____________88________________________9.50
2009_____________70________________________8.70
2010_____________70________________________8.69
2011____________133________________________8.55
 R.S. Bodenhorn

Question regarding "scrub bucks". This past hunting season many smaller racked bucks(spikes,3s,4s,small 6pts) were seen in an area I plan to hunt more often in the near future(2F). Buck to doe ratio was about 1 to 2. Is it a good or bad thing to have a bunch of younger bucks in the area you are hunting? Some guys told me its a bad thing(bad genes). I think its a good thing. I like having a good number of bucks around the area I am hunting. Once these younger guys grow up, there's bound to be a few that develop nicer racks as they get older. We will be increasing the soft mast output for the entire area(we pruned and fertilized a bunch of mature apple trees the past few years,there are acorns present). What do you guys think?

In this unit, last year our newspaper outdoor columnist was complaining that he had extremely few buck pictures from hunters to put on his page.

I read alot of the writers and internet papers from your area and many others to link to on my message board weekly... .. can you give us a link to the article ???
or at least the guy's name ?????

I read alot of the writers and internet papers from your area and many others to link to on my message board weekly... .. can you give us a link to the article ???
or at least the guy's name ?????

Didnt read it online doc, and certainly aint gonna hunt for an old article that may or may not be online. It was in the Herald Standard, The guy was Rod Schoener doc. If youd remember, I told you about him previously when he was running all the hunter complaints in his column. You can find some of that stuff in the archives here.

Looks like things are picking up in the area of the outdoor writer Wayne referred to write about
using the same "sources" he usually does.. Here's his artcile from this past August...

.Home Sports Columnists Rod Schoener , Sat Aug 20, 2011.

Greene deer herd may be expanding

It won't be long before hunting season is here again, as archery deer season opens in a little more than a month on Oct. 1.

Serious bowhunters are already out spotlighting and scouting in an attempt to local a big buck.

The Game Commission's three-on-top antler restriction rule for WMU 2A should increase the harvest numbers considerably.

WMU 2A has continued to better WMU 2C in doe harvest figures and overall harvest most of the time, but buck numbers have slipped.

I think antler restrictions had more to do with the drop than any other factor,
and I still wonder where all the big bucks are that we were promised.

I'm not saying that there aren't some record-book bucks out there, but there are not nearly as many as were promised when antler restrictions were implemented.

One way I get a handle on the Greene County deer situation is by talking with KJ and Kevin Polish and KJ's Kustom Archery in Carmichaels.

KJ said, "I haven't been spotlighting as much as I usually do. I got out about five evenings from about 9:30 until 10:30, but we've been seeing some really nice deer.

"In the Waynesburg area we saw a main frame 8-point that is probably about 145 inches. His antlers are about 23 inches wide.

"We're seeing a lot more deer this year than we did at this time last year. The deer seem to be really healthy.

"On night we saw five bucks together in the 15-to18-inch area. We're seeing a lot more nice bucks, where we saw a lot of scrappers last year. We're seeing a lot of bucks in the 12-to-13-inch range. The big buck near Waynesburg is the biggest we've seen so far, and he was probably pushing 150."

Multiple births are always a sign of healthy deer herd, and when asked about fawns, KJ said, "We actually saw five or six does with three fawns."

KJ and his friends have been setting out trail cameras, and have photographed approximately 50 to 60 deer in the last two to three weeks.

"The herd seems to be improving. It's not was it was several years ago, but it's better than it was," KJ said.

When asked about larger buck kills in 2C than 2A, KJ said, "Greene County was one of the devastated areas, so I think a lot of the people took things into their own hands and passed up on smaller bucks and didn't shoot does at all. They are starting to respect the herd a little bit."

He believes the infestation a few years ago killed three times as many deer in Greene County as the Game Commission estimated.

"From what the hunters told me, it was far more drastic than what was reported. Many friends told me that on their 300-acre farms they counted 60 deer that died."

KJ noted that last year the shop had its worst buck pull since his dad started the business about 28 years ago. A 16-inch 8-point won the contest. He said, "A buck that size hasn't won the contest since the early 1990's."

He said that rack-wise there hasn't been that much improvement, although the second largest typical buck ever killed in the state was taken in Greene County last year.

"There are a couple of those flukes around, but the size of the average buck has been the same for the past four or five years."

I find it interesting the same folks say that the "buck harvest has slipped"... the desease killed three times more deer a "few years ago" and also they saw more nice bucks "this year"
.... then turn around and say the antler size "has not changed" ... ???




He also states in one place there "has not been MUCH improvement" then says it has "remained the same ????

REALLY ??? WHICH IS IT ???

"and I still wonder where all the big bucks are that we were promised."

It's not was it was several years ago

,

KJ noted that last year the shop had its worst buck pull since his dad started the business about 28 years ago.

Lotta contradictions in that article, and there always is when he interviews that particular person.


You sure did miss alot of quotes there doc.kinda selective eh?

You also selectively picked your article, the least damaging one you could find. lmao..

Btw, I think the "expanding" comment was due to the changes pgc made. But what old rod didnt take into account is that the change was meaningless. We also had our modern day low buck harvest this past year. I'll see if I cant find you a better more accurate "clearer" article from last year or so.