New Antler Restictions 3 up law

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Big Tuna
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2011/11/07 20:55:26 (permalink)

New Antler Restictions 3 up law

Today after my buckless hunt (did see two does) I took a little drive to several places I've hunted in the pasted to see if any where getting hunted.All spots where empty but one. Two guys where dragging out a decent buck 16 -17 spread it had two nice brows maybe 5-6 inches long a nice long semi heavy beams but only two giant forks the left antler had 3 sticker below the brow tine,that where over and inch.The youger guy that got the deer called it a mane frame 6 pt with 3 kickers,so he called it a 9 pt.My question is it legal? There are only 2 points on each side,excluding the brows and junk below them.The new law state (three up) excluding the brow,this deer only had 2 points up.So is it legal? page 45 and 53 have AR rules,you read them and you tell me your opinions.I don't think it's legal.
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 20:58:31 (permalink)
    what WMU was the deer killed in ????
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    Big Tuna
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:01:51 (permalink)
    1A Doc
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    RSB
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:03:21 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Big Tuna

    Today after my buckless hunt (did see two does) I took a little drive to several places I've hunted in the pasted to see if any where getting hunted.All spots where empty but one. Two guys where dragging out a decent buck 16 -17 spread it had two nice brows maybe 5-6 inches long a nice long semi heavy beams but only two giant forks the left antler had 3 sticker below the brow tine,that where over and inch.The youger guy that got the deer called it a mane frame 6 pt with 3 kickers,so he called it a 9 pt.My question is it legal? There are only 2 points on each side,excluding the brows and junk below them.The new law state (three up) excluding the brow,this deer only had 2 points up.So is it legal? page 45 and 53 have AR rules,you read them and you tell me your opinions.I don't think it's legal.

     
    If it was in unit 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B or 2D it doesn’t sound like it is legal. Did you get a license number or any other information that can be used to locate the hunters?
     
    You call the Regional Office or you can send me a PM with the location and other information and I will forward it to the appropriate WCO.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn
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    Big Tuna
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:27:07 (permalink)
    RSB,no I did not get licence number,they where driving a red pickup truck with decals that I'd know if I saw again.
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    dpms
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:34:15 (permalink)
    Not legal in the new "three up" area.  There are still folks that think it was changed to three to a side.

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    RSB
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:35:12 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Big Tuna

    RSB,no I did not get licence number,they where driving a red pickup truck with decals that I'd know if I saw again.

     
    Call the Regional Office and report what you saw and as much as you remember about the truck. The WCO might know who it is or see it again and be able to make a case on it.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:44:49 (permalink)
    Call the FBI also. What crock of BS. 9 points over an inch and still not legal. Then one wonders why people want to quit hunting. Lets put minimum width also and really screw buck hunting up.....WF
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    crappiefisher
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 21:52:20 (permalink)
     Send in all info. to Unsolved Mystery's & maybe they can air it & if lucky have a update just after the show is aired.  
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    Big Tuna
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 22:07:52 (permalink)
    I'm really don't care to get the hunters in trouble,it was a super nice buck,but the new law states three up and this buck didn't have three up,I'm sure this NEW LAW (three up will have problems this year)The law really didn't change that much still need to be looking for a 8 pt frame minus the brows,I've let 5 or 6 of these deer get by over the past gun seasons(since the AR)beacuse I just could not put the brows on them in a split second.
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 22:18:30 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Big Tuna

    I'm really don't care to get the hunters in trouble,it was a super nice buck,but the new law states three up and this buck didn't have three up,I'm sure this NEW LAW (three up will have problems this year)The law really didn't change that much still need to be looking for a 8 pt frame minus the brows,I've let 5 or 6 of these deer get by over the past gun seasons(since the AR)beacuse I just could not put the brows on them in a split second.


    Yeah reminds me of the mistake kill reg. If the PGC thinks ,I repeat thinks you made an honest mistake they will fine you I believe it was twenty some dollars. Problem is they hit you for a $150 dollar fine when you report a mistake kill. What wrong with this picture folks ? Every time the Pa hunter turns around the regs are changing, someone who occasionally likes to hunt don't have a chance of keeping up before going a field. It's almost like they force people to not cooperate with them.
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 22:24:48 (permalink)
    Problem is they hit you for a $150 dollar fine when you report a mistake kill



    A mistake kill is not a $150 fine... It's $25.00 and the PGC gets the deer....

    ????
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    RSB
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 22:32:50 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures


    ORIGINAL: Big Tuna

    I'm really don't care to get the hunters in trouble,it was a super nice buck,but the new law states three up and this buck didn't have three up,I'm sure this NEW LAW (three up will have problems this year)The law really didn't change that much still need to be looking for a 8 pt frame minus the brows,I've let 5 or 6 of these deer get by over the past gun seasons(since the AR)beacuse I just could not put the brows on them in a split second.


    Yeah reminds me of the mistake kill reg. If the PGC thinks ,I repeat thinks you made an honest mistake they will fine you I believe it was twenty some dollars. Problem is they hit you for a $150 dollar fine when you report a mistake kill. What wrong with this picture folks ? Every time the Pa hunter turns around the regs are changing, someone who occasionally likes to hunt don't have a chance of keeping up before going a field. It's almost like they force people to not cooperate with them.


     
    Here is the law concerning mistake kills. They seem very clear to me so I don’t understand why you would claim they are always changing or difficult to understand .
     
    Sec. 2306. Killing game or wildlife by mistake.
    (a) General rule.--Any person who, while hunting or trapping for game or wildlife which may be lawfully taken, by accident or mistake kills or attempts to kill any game or wildlife other than bears, elk or threatened or endangered species, contrary to the provisions of this title, shall pay restitution pursuant to subsection (b) to an officer of the commission.
    (b) Restitution.--Restitution for killing or an attempted killing by accident or mistake shall be as follows:
    (1) Each deer - $25.
    (2) Each turkey - $20.
    (3) Each other wild bird or wild animal, other than a bear, elk or an endangered or threatened species - $15.
    (c) Procedural requirements.--Any person claiming a mistake kill or attempted kill of game or wildlife pursuant to this section shall:
    (1) Immediately remove all of the entrails of any edible game or wildlife and, if big game, tag the animal in the manner prescribed under section 2323 (relating to tagging and reporting big game kills).
    (2) Within 24 hours after the killing or attempted killing, report the same to the appropriate commission regional office by telephone or electronic communication.
    (3) Within 24 hours after the killing or attempted killing, deliver the entire carcass, less entrails, to any commission officer in the county in which killed for disposition and provide a written, sworn statement to the commission officer explaining when, where and how the accident or mistake occurred.
    (4) Within ten days after the killing or attempted killing, provide the commission officer full payment of restitution.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn
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    psu_fish
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 22:38:35 (permalink)
    3 up top is gonna be a boondoggle
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    Big Tuna
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 22:55:34 (permalink)
    Outdoor Man,A friends buddy shot a MISTAKE buck when the AR first came on,he thought it was going to be $25 fine,(like the book states)the warden wanted to go back to the crime area,well $25 turned into $500 the WCO said the deer was 50 yards away and should have seen it was a 6 pt. Honest hunter pay $500 ,thats why I don't shoot a bucks in gun seasons(that I know darn well where 8's but didn't see the brows,I don't need brow this year (just 3 up on one side).I only been busted once in my life (47 years hunting) in NY Allegany state park I shot a nice 8 pts and filled the tag out with a pencil(this was in the 80's and in Pa.pencil was ok not NY,on the way out of the park road check,warden checks my deer then leans in the window and said WHO's the unlucky hunter.Well me I'm the only one who got a deer $25 fine got to keep my deer,he made me write over the tag with a pen after he busted me. Honest mistake yea but you got to stay on top of the ever changing laws.WHY DO THEY CHANGE STUFF EVER YEAR?I was in favor of the AR but not the HR,but I'm starting to think just go back to a bucks a buck.If its got horns and it make you happy you should kill it.I shot a pile of spikes ,3's,4's and others up to 8's in WV and had FUN on every trip,thats when hunting was hunting,those days are gone,now its a little tricky I'm almost afraid too pull the trigger.
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 23:30:33 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Big Tuna

    Outdoor Man,A friends buddy shot a MISTAKE buck when the AR first came on,he thought it was going to be $25 fine,(like the book states)the warden wanted to go back to the crime area,well $25 turned into $500 the WCO said the deer was 50 yards away and should have seen it was a 6 pt. Honest hunter pay $500 ,thats why I don't shoot a bucks in gun seasons(that I know darn well where 8's but didn't see the brows,I don't need brow this year (just 3 up on one side).I only been busted once in my life (47 years hunting) in NY Allegany state park I shot a nice 8 pts and filled the tag out with a pencil(this was in the 80's and in Pa.pencil was ok not NY,on the way out of the park road check,warden checks my deer then leans in the window and said WHO's the unlucky hunter.Well me I'm the only one who got a deer $25 fine got to keep my deer,he made me write over the tag with a pen after he busted me. Honest mistake yea but you got to stay on top of the ever changing laws.WHY DO THEY CHANGE STUFF EVER YEAR?I was in favor of the AR but not the HR,but I'm starting to think just go back to a bucks a buck.If its got horns and it make you happy you should kill it.I shot a pile of spikes ,3's,4's and others up to 8's in WV and had FUN on every trip,thats when hunting was hunting,those days are gone,now its a little tricky I'm almost afraid too pull the trigger.


    A person who understands what hunters are up against and who agrees with me. I understand what you are saying. I have never been fined for a hunting violation in 39 years of hunting. NEVER ! I still don't trust the ways of many WCO's and especially the deputies. They are the worst and as crooked as a dogs hind leg as I have witnessed many times. Many times I hear of hunters walking up to a kill and not wanting to take the chance if it's legal or not and leave it lay. Can't say I blame them for doing that. A mistake costing $500 will buy a lot of beef for the family.
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 23:35:10 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

    Problem is they hit you for a $150 dollar fine when you report a mistake kill



    A mistake kill is not a $150 fine... It's $25.00 and the PGC gets the deer....

    ????


    Keep reading Trout it's $500 and it's a judgment call. You feeling lucky turn yourself in. maybe you'll pay $25 but I doubt that. On the other hand maybe you will if you can read between the lines so to speak.
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 23:39:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: RSB

    ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures


    ORIGINAL: Big Tuna

    I'm really don't care to get the hunters in trouble,it was a super nice buck,but the new law states three up and this buck didn't have three up,I'm sure this NEW LAW (three up will have problems this year)The law really didn't change that much still need to be looking for a 8 pt frame minus the brows,I've let 5 or 6 of these deer get by over the past gun seasons(since the AR)beacuse I just could not put the brows on them in a split second.


    Yeah reminds me of the mistake kill reg. If the PGC thinks ,I repeat thinks you made an honest mistake they will fine you I believe it was twenty some dollars. Problem is they hit you for a $150 dollar fine when you report a mistake kill. What wrong with this picture folks ? Every time the Pa hunter turns around the regs are changing, someone who occasionally likes to hunt don't have a chance of keeping up before going a field. It's almost like they force people to not cooperate with them.



    Here is the law concerning mistake kills. They seem very clear to me so I don’t understand why you would claim they are always changing or difficult to understand .
     
    Sec. 2306. Killing game or wildlife by mistake.
    (a) General rule.--Any person who, while hunting or trapping for game or wildlife which may be lawfully taken, by accident or mistake kills or attempts to kill any game or wildlife other than bears, elk or threatened or endangered species, contrary to the provisions of this title, shall pay restitution pursuant to subsection (b) to an officer of the commission.
    (b) Restitution.--Restitution for killing or an attempted killing by accident or mistake shall be as follows:
    (1) Each deer - $25.
    (2) Each turkey - $20.
    (3) Each other wild bird or wild animal, other than a bear, elk or an endangered or threatened species - $15.
    (c) Procedural requirements.--Any person claiming a mistake kill or attempted kill of game or wildlife pursuant to this section shall:
    (1) Immediately remove all of the entrails of any edible game or wildlife and, if big game, tag the animal in the manner prescribed under section 2323 (relating to tagging and reporting big game kills).
    (2) Within 24 hours after the killing or attempted killing, report the same to the appropriate commission regional office by telephone or electronic communication.
    (3) Within 24 hours after the killing or attempted killing, deliver the entire carcass, less entrails, to any commission officer in the county in which killed for disposition and provide a written, sworn statement to the commission officer explaining when, where and how the accident or mistake occurred.
    (4) Within ten days after the killing or attempted killing, provide the commission officer full payment of restitution.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn


    You forgot to post where the PGC says we will only fine you $25 period ! No really honest you can trust us. The PGC has never lied or suckered any hunters,Ever, honest. Now can I sale you some beach front in Arizona ?
    #18
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/07 23:49:08 (permalink)
    If the stickers were definitely over an inch, it's a legal buck, isn't it? 3 stickers over one inch, from base to tip, make that buck a 9 point. Even if one sticker was over an inch, it's a 7 point and is legal.

    IF they were really an inch or longer

    EDIT:
    I think I was wrong on the above information with the new 3 up regulations. From the regs: Three points off the main beam on one side (“Three Up”), excluding
    the brow tine (the point immediately above the antler burr)

    post edited by rsquared - 2011/11/08 00:40:00
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 07:03:30 (permalink)
    Not really wanting to jump off the thread, the only possible MISTAKE killing I can see is a pass thru. We are to identify our target and if " I thought I saw brow tines" or "it looked like 3 up" will not cut it.Too many TV shows. Lets all get in tower stands and put out food so we can properly scope the bucks. Archery hunting affords the time to watch the buck, at close quarters,and decide if it is legal. In rifle season, deer are nervous and moving and, even with glasses,most times difficult to see the headgear properly. I liked the idea of AR when it first started but have changed my mind. Jerry Feaster has repeated been published to say - the hunters of Pa have lost there hunting skills. No wonder. The aspect of still hunting or jump hunting has all but been taken out of the hunting experiance.....WF
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    BloodyHand
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 07:34:10 (permalink)
    I had a feeling the game commission uses this website for fishin. Ask a guy a question about the new antler rules and all they ( pgc ) is want you to turn them in. Fat chance buddy! Although I do like your input and you seem very knowledgeable of most of the regs. I think you need to go fishin somewhere else!
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    DarDys
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 11:11:25 (permalink)
    It might have been more logical when the rule changed to have it be three up (the new rule) in order to remove the brow tine issue (because the hunters in the western part of the state have worse eye sight than those in the east) or four to a side (the old rule) in order to solve the issue that is probably rather rare, but presented here.  By doing so, the more restrictive rules of the past four to a side are still good while the new less restrictive rules are as well.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    Ironhed
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 11:42:39 (permalink)
    Not really wanting to jump off the thread, the only possible MISTAKE killing I can see is a pass thru. We are to identify our target and if " I thought I saw brow tines" or "it looked like 3 up" will not cut it.


    +1

    Ironhed

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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 12:13:13 (permalink)
    OA....


    The fine for a mistaken kill is $25.00 ..

    The fine for killing a "protected" buck is up to $500

    Please show me where it states $500 for a mistaken kill ???

    Gheezz.. I can not believe how often on this site , the truth or law is posted right in front of you and you still don't see it and continue to believe the BS that you do


    It's $25.00... you have to write out an incident report and state what happened and how you made the mistake... then sign the affidavid, stating it is the truth... Give the WCO the $25.00 if he accepts your explaination... and he takes the deer away.. simple, easy and painless ...
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    crappiefisher
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 12:27:20 (permalink)
    $100 minimum fine per deer if considered "CARELESSNESS" .

    That's what they r talkin' 'bout doc. 
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 15:39:42 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

    OA....


    The fine for a mistaken kill is $25.00 ..

    The fine for killing a "protected" buck is up to $500

    Please show me where it states $500 for a mistaken kill ???

    Gheezz.. I can not believe how often on this site , the truth or law is posted right in front of you and you still don't see it and continue to believe the BS that you do


    It's $25.00... you have to write out an incident report and state what happened and how you made the mistake... then sign the affidavid, stating it is the truth... Give the WCO the $25.00 if he accepts your explaination... and he takes the deer away.. simple, easy and painless ...


    Just read post #14 over and over and over and over until it sinks in Trout. Yeah $25 my.............
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 20:34:35 (permalink)
    I forgot to mention that the WCO will also issue you a new tag after a mistaken kill....

    crappie... yeah I know... for anything other that what the WCO believes is a complete and truthful mistake the fine can vary from a "careless" to an "illegal kill" ... $100 to $500...
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 20:48:37 (permalink)
    . forgot to mention that the WCO will also issue you a new tag after a mistaken kill....

    For $500.00 !
    post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/11/08 20:51:10
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 20:56:01 (permalink)
    As for OA wanting me to re-read post #14.. I did...
    nothing against the poster or the friends - BUT ==

    The deer was 50 yards away !!! .. how can anyone not count points at 50 yards to be sure it is not a protected buck .... and if you are not sure.. you should not shoot... especially in the old 4 points to a side areas... seeing 3 up and pulling the trigger figuring there would be brow tines (back in those days) was just asking for trouble... and I know the local WCO got several in the past in that part of 2F that was 4 to a side also..


    Notice also the poster stated ==

    A friends buddy shot a MISTAKE buck


    That is not correct.. it should read =

    A friends buddy shot a "protected buck" ... and thought it would be considered a mistaken kill.. after investigating the WCO decided it was no accident ... and the guy was fined $500 for killing a protected buck...


    Favorite WCO story about "mistaken kill"... WCO checked a truck in the SGL parking lot.. in the bed was a 4 point (2F part where it was 3 to a side) guys claimed it was a mistake and he was going to report it..


    RIGHT.. the buck was not even tagged and was under a tarp ... result $500 fine...no mistake there

    Heard the guy telling the "story" a few days later at the store = and he never mentioned it was not tagged.. just that the $##@#$%*& WCO did not believe it was a mistake....


    #29
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    RE: New Antler Restictions 3 up law 2011/11/08 20:58:26 (permalink)
    OA once again you are soooooo wrong...

    . forgot to mention that the WCO will also issue you a new tag after a mistaken kill....

    For $500.00 !



    You will not be issued a new tag for shooting a protected deer for any amount of money .... it will cost you up to $500 .. no new tag.. and probably lose your licenses for the next hunting season...
    #30
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