True.  Performance is very comparable, but perceived performance is much greater for the x-guns based on my personal experiences.

The shooting procedure is the same as it is for a rifle though, which was always my main beef with them.

 

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

True.  Performance is very comparable, but perceived performance is much greater for the x-guns based on my personal experiences.

The shooting procedure is the same as it is for a rifle though, which was always my main beef with them.

Then consider that some crossbow hunters use a rest. One can hold on their target forever until they decide to pull the trigger. Biggest problem is noise with a crossbow even at over 325 FPS an animal can jump the string as many crossbow hunters fail to realize. They sighted in and 50 or 60 and saw a guy on the Outdoor Channel do it so they think it's OK. Not all, but probably more than I care to count.

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

True.  Performance is very comparable, but perceived performance is much greater for the x-guns based on my personal experiences.

The shooting procedure is the same as it is for a rifle though, which was always my main beef with them.

Then consider that some crossbow hunters use a rest. One can hold on their target forever until they decide to pull the trigger. Biggest problem is noise with a crossbow even at over 325 FPS an animal can jump the string as many crossbow hunters fail to realize. They sighted in and 50 or 60 and saw a guy on the Outdoor Channel do it so they think it's OK. Not all, but probably more than I care to count.

Saw craig morgan (country singer) shoot an antlelope at 96 yards with one. The arrow hit the ground first them bounced up and stuck in the animal. Big celebration.

I can relate to what musky master is saying but since I hunt with a recurve and since reading sign and scouting to get close enough for traditional gear is probably the thing I enjoy most about bow season I guess I'm biased,think lots of guys who aren't as fortunate to have the time I do to practice and scout go the x-bow route since it ups their odds somewhat, two neighbors who consider themselves hunters kinda bother me one with x-bow other with c-pound, they bragged to me about not needing to practice(guy with compound said he only shot once) well they turned out to be last minute evening edge of cornfield hunters who wounded a doe right ahead of incoming rainstorm and then showed up at door to ask me if I'd help track at 900-pm. only reason I went was I felt I owed it to the deer, blood trail was pretty well washed away and they weren't real enthused about staying with the search, I ended up soaked and mad asked the compound guy about shot and he said he wasn't sure about the hit but thought it was low since it was 40 plus yards at last shooting light, looked next day myself checked creek bottom and every piece of thick cover I could find nada, so I guess yea some guys bother me and think that the crossbow while it does have it uses(letting older, younger, and disabled continue to hunt)also lets more guys who are too lazy to practice and put time into woodsmanship and want a quick easy fix into the sport.

MM, I disagree with you. I had to adapt if I wanted to hunt at all. I grew up in Erie and hunted around Erie my whole life. In 1993 I moved to Central Pa.(gov't employment) I had NO friends or family members living nearby. Don't you think I still wished I could hunt in areas around Erie? Well guess what I was 4 hours from Erie. What did I do. I went out and found(asked,drove around,walked, G.L.s) places to hunt. No it was not easy. Here it is 17 years later and guess what I still kill deer way outside of my "home range". I still gain and lose hunting areas. If I didn't adapt to the times I would have been done hunting years ago. Is it easy NO but if you put the effort in to it YOU WILL BE REWARDED. At one time I had access to hundreds of acres, today I have G.L.s or a measly 25 acres of land 10 minutes from my house I have to share with the landowners 2 nephews. You either want to hunt or you don't. I wish you the best of luck.

Here is something that I was surprised to here this evening. The GF has used a X-bow the last couple of years hunting after selling her dated compound. Well tonight she decided to go buy another compound. She decided on a Hoyt Vicxen. She got a good deal because the dealer is no longer going to sell compounds. He told her he sells 40 x-bows for every compound. He also told her that it takes less skill and less time to learn and shoot a x-bow making it ever so popular for the novice archer. Another big long time dealer near Cranberry Twp has also closed up after 40 some years in business do to the popularity of x-bows. He can't compete with large retail stores when all that is required is to bolt a x-bow together and sight it in like a gun. Everybody likes something different but archery is changing. You tell me, for the better or the worst?

It's typical of todays world. Most people like things as easy as posible and hunting is no exception. Compounds made deer hunting easier than long bows and crossguns made deer hunting so easy a five or six year old can be successful at it. Love those hero shots with a kid so small he's not even strong enough to carry the crossbow himself.

As usual you ignore the point I was making. How hard can it be to use one when first graders can do it. hunting is supposed to be a sport pitting man against animal not shooting a cow grazing in a pasture. I actually thought you agreed that we have lost a lot of what hunting was about.

I actually thought you agreed that we have lost a lot of what hunting was about.

I do .. I do... hunting is no where near what it was when we grew up LOVING it... but it was what it was.... it was the only game in town ...

just like playing sand-lot pick-up games of whiffle ball of stick ball in the streets all day long in summer .. folks tell me it's hard as hell to even get their kids to even go outside to play anything now...


I have said it before and I'll say it again.. even though I can not believe I am saying it...

If I were say 12 NOW and had the cell phones, texting, computer games WII etc, direct TV, Ipods, etc, etc... and I can get alot of this on a hand-held cell phone !!!!

I'm not so sure my Uncle or Dad would have got me out in the rain, snow, heat, winds, bugs, all that walking,etc, etc...just to shoot some animal or catch a stupid fish....

so ANY changes that would help get or keep folks hunting and fishing is okay in my book....

I'd rather see a youngster carrying a crossbow who does not have the desire or time to get as expert as needed with a compound out in the woods, or shooting an in-line rather than a flintlock...

maybe using a closed face reel rather than learn to fly fish...


I want to see them out there so the sports of hunting and fishing continue for decades...


The old traditions of hunting are a thing of the past... remember many say you can never go back... and I believe that we have lost alot of the "old ways" but there certainly is nothing wrong with what is out there to enjoy today if one just gets the "interest " in getting out there to see it for themselves....

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

You tell me, for the better or the worst?

In the late eighties, we had close to 320,000 archers.  Today with archery license sales already plateauing after crossbow inclusion we sell about 290,000.  Participation is up, archery harvest up a tad, more kids hunting, older folks back in the game, folks enjoying their time in the woods and continuing to buy a hunting license.  Looks good to me, overall.  Some negative stuff but that will never be eliminated.

Down the road when license sales continue to fall overall, we will again be looking at ways to get folks hunting.  Archery is gonna be mid September till the end of January statewide in the future. 

Sad part is many of those mentors come from Doc and RSBs Goon, Thug, Poacher, not good guy ranks that they tell us about all the time.


There should be a lower age limit. In my opinion 5-6 years old is not old enough to understand the safety aspects of the whole hunting thing..

ORIGINAL: dpms

Archery is gonna be mid September till the end of January statewide in the future. 

As it is in every other state. Archery comes in and never goes out. Not a bad thing, and it will not really affect the harvest totals.

Ohio stats show that kids that start out with crossbows at a very early age, move to compounds in their late teens. It was a interesting template to look at. It was floating around during the crossbow wars

You may choose to call it negative spin but here goes. Ohios hunter numbers and interest are increasing because of deer numbers just as ours are decreasing because of deer numbers. Ohios non resident numbers are increasing because of deer numbers while our non-resident numbers are decreasing because of deer numbers.

Giving a kid a crossbow and letting him sit in the cold and wet watching a tweety bird or trillium growing isn't going to keep him interested for long and our junior dropout number proves that.
Besides--I thought you guys didn't care what other states data showed. At least that's what you always tell me when I post it.

ORIGINAL: S-10
Besides--I thought you guys didn't care what other states data showed. At least that's what you always tell me when I post it.

 
In regards to the crossbow?  I have always welcomed it here and from every other state that allows them. 

I went out and found(asked,drove around,walked, G.L.s) places to hunt. No it was not easy. Here it is 17 years later and guess what I still kill deer way outside of my "home range". I still gain and lose hunting areas. If I didn't adapt to the times I would have been done hunting years ago. Is it easy NO but if you put the effort in to it...

All due respect NPLH, that's not really adapting to a change in the hunting climate. That's a consequence of a voluntary decision you made.

I read these hunting forums far more than I post, because admittedly, you gents hunt far more than I do anymore. I try to get enthused about it, but it's a lot tougher after all that's happened over the past decade plus. But that's just me. The "positive/negative impacts, hidden agendas" debate is yours to carry on...I know how I feel, and I won't begrudge any person an intelligent, informed opinion...which, BTW, I admire so many of you for having. Forgive me if I drift a bit off topic, but for some reason, this thread topic really caught my eye, though, and when I read the opening post, I first thought, "well, so long as they were legal and ethical, nope...can't see anything wrong with what they did." Then as the thread got bigger, I got to pondering...

In that delta between my Dad's 12th birthday and my 12th birthday, much of the world had changed, but hunting was - with few material exceptions - the same. And that's what made the sport the traditional insitution it was to my family. Take off for a weekend of hunting, and the world could change around you all it wanted. You didn't have to deal with it until you arrived home on Sunday night. The tradition was the reward.

Examine that same time frame one generation later. The world has changed exponentially over the prior generation. And so has the sport, and I have to agree with those who feel that it has become less than it was. Traditions faded in response to changes to which we were told, "It is what it is, deal with it." Loss of traditions yielded loss of enthusiasms. So when my son had his 12th birthday, for as excited as we all were on his rite of passage into manhood, we just couldn't get past our own lack of enthusiasm. We still go out, we still put in the effort, but it isn't the same anymore.

I have to believe that the decline in what the tradition of hunting meant to people is what caused them to bail on the sport. Those who have hung in there and have struggled to preserve what fibers of their traditions they have left (and why shouldn't they?) are, IMHO, the types of people we want representing the sport. To the extent that they are successful in fostering a love, respect and ethical appreciation for the sport, we are simply that much farther ahead of the game. Those who feel the burden of staying true to tradition is too difficult (or simply impossible) and have left the sport have given way to more hunters of the "quicker, simpler, fill a tag and go home" variety. And as we continue to make it easier to harvest what game there is (again, I'm not debating populations with anyone), the tradition seems to fade even more.

Gotta get back to work, but here's my punchline: "Adapt or go home" works really well when you're talking about death, and taxes, and the electronic age. But the world has become a very impatient place to live and has become populated by people with Napoleonic complexes: They want what they want, and they want it now. Everyone who participates - not just the winners - gets a trophy. The consequences brought about by the change in the fabric of this sport has made it easy for that mindset to take root. And when you make it easier for the J.G. Wentworths of the world, you open the door for a characteristic of hunters that defy and further scrape away at what more than not of us hope the sport - and to be sure, the tradition of this sport - was supposed to represent.

Dang...did I really write all of that?!