So would You If Salmon were Steelhead ?

Here Are my thoughts :
 
1)  Yes , As  I do not Ice fish that often  , so come Jan/Feb  I need to fish open water somewhere.
 
2) Same as Question 1, +  not as crowded
 
3) I think  the crowds are related to weather , if the steelhead were in in Sept/Oct , the crowds would fish them. Although , not sure if non C+R guys would would want to keep steelhead ?
 
4) No idea
 
5) The fact the steel  return to the lake is a big part of it for me ,  I Like the idea  of releasing fish  so they can  go on for another day.
 
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

I hear lots of folks say their done with salmon, myself included many times. also we all talk about the bad rap during salmon season.. BUT, what if steelhead ran first and salmon later ?

1. would you tend to fish more for salmon then ?
2. why do you now fish more for steelhead ?
3. think crowds would be any different ?
4. do salmon get a bad rap because of their species ?
5. lastly, if you really don't keep fish any way then what makes them so different ?

Now these are just some off the top questions and feel free to add or expand on any..
I'm just curious because I know some folks REALLY like salmon fishing and some REALLY like steelhead fishing.. To me it's all just fishing, one and the same.. But yes I know I am bias toward trout..

I'm going to hit the sack as tomorrow I'll be salmon,steelhead & brown fishing..
I'll look back when I return to see the responses then give my views..

Peace & Tuna

May visions of the egg sack fairy dance in your head.  The past few decades, fall was striper time for me. Having seen snag-fest in its prime, I was bound and determined never to return. Took awhile. I fished big rivers out west and caught sea run steel. Expensive running out there, so I tried SR steel. Bingo. Snowshoes, small crowds, friendly people, and yeah, STEEL!  I went with Tuna this year for salmon  and caught some runs and it was excellent. The salmon fought great, and put a bend in the 9  wt. like a 30 lb. stripe.  Pound for pound, I think steel have greater speed and strength, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I like both and will continue to fish for both. I completely understand the crowds. Many guys have trouble catching stunted sunnies and then they head to Pull -it-out- of- your-a##-ski  and snag into what feels like they hooked into the back of their  brother in laws Donzi.
AND feeds a family of, no amend that, several families a meal. So I'll go early in the season  and hope for the best. The steel would have a hard time existing without the gravy train of bio-mass  the salmon provide, so I like the way things that nature has arranged, albeit with a little help from our hatchery friends. I had conflicting info going in about the willingness of salmon to take a fly. That doubt is very much dispelled. Still , steel takes it by about a length for me. Eliminate the crowds and it would be by a nose.
 
Charlie

Well I'll add my 2 cents to the discussion. I just got back from the river was up sunday to tuesday.
Sunday was good, Monday ok Tuesday a little slow for me anyway.

My enjoyment of the salmon run is hanging by a thread at this point. This was my first trip in two years although I've been coming up religiously since about 94.
Here's why I'd rather fish for steel

1. I realize that it's always been crowded but the crowds the last three days were just insane. I fished the lower river and the dsr and it was a nuthouse. I know it is what it is, but what it is, is not enjoyable rather tedius. You have people getting out at the butt crack of dawn claiming a hole and staying their all day long, don't get out of your spot or you might not find another. At least with the steel you can find a little solitude at certain times of the year.

2. With the big crowds during the salmon run of course you get all kinds of behavior. Two things happened to me that ticked me off, this was in the dsr, I'm fishing a run and I had about a 15 ft drift. At the end of the drift there were three flat rocks with about 4 inches of water on top of them, on the other side of the rocks was a deep channel about four feet deep, the fish were moving into that channel and I was able to swing my flies in their and get some legal stikes. This lasted for about and hour when 4 jablonski's came down, saw me hooking up and proceeded to stand right on top of those rocks and kerplunk away snagging left and right with there 3 huge split shots and globugs tied on. Well I didn't get another strike after that. The other incedent, guy totally oblivious glassing walks right in front of me, right through my hole, I could have tapped him on his shoulder with my rod. I give him an ahemm, oh sorry dude I didn't see you their. People are usually a little more curtious during the steelhead season.

3. Obviously steelhead will take a fly of bait so it feels more like fishing to me. The other annoying factor is all the salmon you accidently snag and have to break off and re-tie.

4. Finally I prefer the fight of the steelhead way more, the blistering runs the acrobatics and beleive it or not the fact that they don't have the brute strength of the salmon where you actually have a chance to land the fish. We all remember the first time we hooked up with a king the sheer brute force, but know the fight has become more tedius for me, you have the initial burst a couple jumps then downstrean we go just holding on for dear life then of course "Fish on comming down" as you have to pick your way past 50 guys only to lose the fish in the end and come back to find someone in your spot. Some people still get a rush out of that, not so much for me anymore.

So moral of the story is I came away from the trip more annoyed then actually relaxed. What I plan to do in the future is, I have a 14 ft lund deep v I'm going to bring that up, go about the same time of year last week sept first week oct. Fish in the morning for mudsharks till about 11 o'clock, eat lunch then head out on a lake and fish for bass and northerns and chill out.

p.s. Tuna I beleive if the seasons were flipped they're would be a slightly bigger crowd for steel because of the weather but you would still have the same crowd of snaggers for the salmon if they ran in december/january they'd just be bundle up more.

Great thread; in my opinion it just comes down to that inexplicable personal preference... but I will take an attempt at trying to explain...

Most obvious reason for ME...


I've yet to see a run of steelhead in which they are creating a wake against the current with the water surface exploding like gravel being continuously dropped in the water from bank to bank...

Steelhead are more of a sport to me; an entire day with 5 hookups on steelthe is ways more satisfying to me then an entire day of 5 hookups on kings... even if it were a 25 hookup day on kings wouldn't stand to it....

Look at the west coast; you talk to an angler out there; they will tell you they'd take a spring king rather than 10 summer/fall kings.... does this make sense??? There's a larger reward for me in catching steel; bottom line... and yes the solitude in the winter definitely plays a big part; but for me it is the fish itself equally...

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

I hear lots of folks say their done with salmon, myself included many times. also we all talk about the bad rap during salmon season.. BUT, what if steelhead ran first and salmon later ?

1. would you tend to fish more for salmon then ?
2. why do you now fish more for steelhead ?
3. think crowds would be any different ?
4. do salmon get a bad rap because of their species ?
5. lastly, if you really don't keep fish any way then what makes them so different ?

Now these are just some off the top questions and feel free to add or expand on any..
I'm just curious because I know some folks REALLY like salmon fishing and some REALLY like steelhead fishing.. To me it's all just fishing, one and the same.. But yes I know I am bias toward trout..

I'm going to hit the sack as tomorrow I'll be salmon,steelhead & brown fishing..
I'll look back when I return to see the responses then give my views..

Peace & Tuna

thanks to everyone for having the conversation. after taking the rose colored glasses off yesterday it really was an eye opening experience, even with 30 years fishing the sr.. so guess i started this thread from a biased opinion but now have a better overall perception.. lets begin.

1. yes i would still fish salmon if steelhead came first. have found over the many years the myth that salmon do not strike is completely false.. no matter what happened yesterday I stick to my guns on that FACT.. I suppose I put these questions out of order so continue on for reasoning..

2.the obvious answers many agree upon are, 1. they feed thus being somewhat easier to catch.. well they are tough to catch and if it were that easy everyone would be catching them.. I have been skunked, many times but enjoy the challenge of angler against fish.. 2. they do not die, that part makes no matter to me.. everything dies at some point, it's called life cycle.. 3. less crowds, agreed.. still with the popularity sometimes steelhead fishing looks like salmon season.. But still the weather does thin the herd..
So I fish steelhead for the same reasons I trout fish.. I just enjoy fishing ..

3.If roles were reversed and steelhead came first I 100% think the crowds would be exactly the same as yesterday.. It is a combination of decent fall weather and lure of big fish that bring out the people.. That in it's self would make it difficult for me to continue fishing as much as I do now for them..
Example: I live on a Major trib where Stripers enter.. In the 70's & 80's I used to striper fish everyday and most nights because Big fish no crowds, pressure.. We always caught fish.. With the big Boom the last 15>20 years it's almost impossible to fish there any longer without lots of people.. So I gave up and only go out very early in April with the yak looking for the first run schoolies before the run.. To me it's just not enjoyable any longer and this is my back yard..
So yes I would switch my majority to salmon if roles were reversed.

4. Bad rap, I think they do.. All I ever hear is they don't bite and they are going to die anyway.. That is B.S. .. They do strike.. Time and time again I have said 1. Fresh fish when first entering are aggressive fish that strike. 2. Active spawning fish will defend their territory. Now to find that combination is key.. Maybe if roles were reversed and the salmon do not runt the gauntlet they would be more aggressive throughout the river system.
Humm,.. Think about that... How agressive are the steelhead when in a pool with lots of people ? Many times they are put down and ones caught are just infack lined fish, I have been there and have lined steelhead..
Salmon are going to die anyway : Arent we all ? No less respect should be given based on that fact..

5. I guess I already answered this. Molested fish, lack of respect..

So there you have it..
It could all be different folks .. It's NOT "it is what it is" It's what we make it to be .. If SS was completely oppsite I think most would be up in arms over Steelhead season.. That's why I am always complaining about SS and would like to see things change for the better.. It's just very tough to figure out how..

They are all fish and they all have their place- Like those places- one and all.

 Hey- was watchin one of those expensive fly in Alaska fishing trips on TV once. As soon as the guy hooked up on some kinda Salmon somebody off camera started saying how it was hooked ' in the mouth'-sound familiar ?
  Sooooo lets not kid ourselves- SR aint that bad-or different.

I sold a 10 wt. rig to a fellow in Kenai a few months ago. I asked him to let me know how he did on the kings with it. He ended up not getting hooked up, as he couldn't  find any room to get a drift. I had  thought about a self-guided trip to the Kenai peninsula, as it isn't far from Anchorage. Not gonna waste my money and time. I described the SR to the Kenai local and he told me it sounded the same or tamer than there, as far as king season goes.Less policing, snagging legal, lots of violence.  The float plane thing is WAY beyond my means. SR ain't.
 
Charlie

i truely want to go to alaska some day for salmon and steelies
but with two kids in college and being a single dad, the money just aint there
so i go to erie and the sr
i believe that both are wonderful fisheries and i just love to catch those fish
as far as the crowds, russians, snaggers, and other assorted azzholes you find there...you have two choices
get all bent out of shape and let them ruin your trip
or deal with it and enjoy it for what it is

i chose number 2

Have 2 co-worker friends that have been to Alaska and a good friend that was a ranger there.. As Fichy said, unless you spend crazy money for fly outs it is the same if not worse fishing conditions then my Altmar experience weds.. Any where there is a road (few) & a river there are hoards of ppl harvesting..
No thanks, I'm Rich, but not that rich $$,$$$.

I'm late on this but will add my thoughts:

I love early season salmon fishing, swinging big flies to bright big fish..from late august (depending upon water level & temps) to mid

Sept. Hooking up with unmolested fresh Kings that jump and go ballistic is quite the thrill. They come very close to the fight of steel,

except they are 18-30+ lbs. That being said I think the Kings get a major bad rap..and mostly due to the fact that they are much

harder to catch than steelhead, especially when they've been in the river a while. When they start getting into their decomposing phase

their life is sapped and the energy is just not there for those great fights, so fisherman lose respect and call them mudsharks. Well, if it

wasn't for the Kings, we probably would have no fishery to support the other species. If the number's of King's were the same as

steelhead, you would have a smaller fishery, less crowds, and probably a completely different fishing environment, possibly better for

those that prefer less fish and nicer conditions. I doubt we would ever see this scenerio, as you need the numbers to produce the

percentage of eggs needed for the stocking of these salmon vs steelhead that will return every year. Coho's are a special treat during

salmon season and fight like steel, are very agrressive to the fly and last longer in the river than Kings. I also feel late Oct/Nov. steel are

the best fighting fish of the year. I would have no problem fishing for Kings in the winter if things were reveresed, would be a lot less

crowded, but would hate to see the steel raped and pillaged, so glad it's the way it is.

Tight Lines

Good thread, tuna

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

I hear lots of folks say their done with salmon, myself included many times. also we all talk about the bad rap during salmon season.. BUT, what if steelhead ran first and salmon later ?

1. would you tend to fish more for salmon then ?
2. why do you now fish more for steelhead ?
3. think crowds would be any different ?
4. do salmon get a bad rap because of their species ?
5. lastly, if you really don't keep fish any way then what makes them so different ?

Now these are just some off the top questions and feel free to add or expand on any..

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

ORIGINAL: OldSalt

When they start getting into their decomposing phase

their life is sapped and the energy is just not there for those great fights, so fisherman lose respect and call them mudsharks.

I always heard (from lake guys) that the term mudshark was coined by the lake charter guys based on their behavior when staging at lower depths & river mouths.

who knows?

there is some truth to that drake; salmon get brought near the river mouth from coldwater upwelling; then an eastern wind come in and blows the cold water back out leaving the fish in warm water so they rub the lake/river mouth bottom with their bellies to seek the coolest water temps... this is why you see many early kings with pink/red bellies

ORIGINAL: waDerboy

Question?
Does the east wind move surface water or the deeper water?
It seems to me that it would blow the surface water (usually warmer in Aug-Sept) out while the deeper water underneath would stay and it would allow deeper lake water to take its place.

ive seen east wind blow staged fish back out;and then a west wind blow them back in the next day... ive heard of it creating upwelling near shore plenty of times and also the complete opposite... with wind and currents there are so many variables though; it would be nice if some lake guys were on this board to enlighten and school us on it... all i know of wind/lake is from early reports; but as the season comes in to effect the lake guys seem to really zip their lips; i dont blame em; why should they just give away their years of trial/error/success knowledge...

in my observation ive always had a NW wind work in my favor for down low... maybe its just coincidence... or maybe it was the final ingredient for the given situation at that time... mother nature is far from consistent