SR on an upward trend

As I've mentioned, this is my first slammin' season since '86. I just read a report from the DEC  that says that the angler/days both on the river and in the lake are back up to levels found  in the late 80's. I was wearing some pretty thick beer goggles back on those trips, I just know it was crowded. Does anyone think this is true? Is this a good thing?  I know I'm surprised at the number of steel nuts out in the single digits (me included), so it doesn't surprise me. I know there is a ton more people fishing  without trying to destroy the fishery and a whole lot more people being sporting and respectful than I remember. I'm just wondering if the SR is on a good trend-seems that way to me. I'd like to hear the opinions of the many here that have seen it all.
 
Charlie

Hey Charlie-
    This River has had an up and down or two since I have been up for a bit over 30 yrs now.
     Way back with no DSR and the treble hook snagin in the upper river days there were a lot of Kings around and in the Spring a great number of spawning Steel too. The numbers of fishermen was HUGE back then.
    Back then there were a lot of big cleaning station business along the river and they had lines of guys all the time during any kinda run. NOT so any more.
     Since the fishery has rebounded and the number of fishermen has come back up the clear lack of cleaning station activity would seem to be an indication of a different philosophy of C&R becoming more prevalant.
    Its a put and take fishery however and C&R is just a personal choice but I think it indicates a fishery with more guys who care now as opposed to a lot of guys just there for the meat. That said the big pools are still the big pools -ya know---NOT KNOCKING keepers here in any way - its just different now.
   The fishery is clearly back and with a greatly enhanced variety of fish too. Also there seems to be far and away more fly rods on the river than ever before. I would expect the numbers to continue to go up till mother Nature hands out another glinch as it bound to happen even under the best of circumstances.
  Kudos to NY for keeping at it and making this place GREAT again.

I recall 4WDing into the wires field and having the whole place to myself and a couple of other winter nuts.

I recall procuring shop tied flies via the barter system.

I recall never having to worry about leaving my vehicle & possessions anywhere off the beaten trail.

I recall when the Altmar Hotel used to stay open till the wee hours.

I recall experiencing several major blackouts from self-destructive behavior at the Altmar Hotel that prevent me from recalling anymore SR memories

I recall when it was legal to snag UP TO the Pville bridge.
Then after they had run that gaunlet you could fish for them.
First good move the state made was reversing that.
It gave fishermen a fair chance to fish over fresh relatively unspooked fish.
It also created the mess we now know as lifting, up ubtil then it was pretty much only used by Finger Lake run "fishermen", and lining.
But either is better than the old cricket days.

100 % agreed db , see we are really one & the same..lol..
back "in the day" sept-15th >oct 15th was snagging season and that was the start of the mob scene..

Now WB you have a few years on me so I respect my elders words of wisdom
Think I recal you & L-13 saying the salmon run started way before sept but they were imprinted to change to fall runs . No ?

ORIGINAL: bigbear2010

on the plus side, the fish i've seen this year seem to be alittle bigger :)

I lost a monster king with shoulders on it that my brother and I estimated to be 35# this past friday?????...
the cohoes are definitely getting larger...

On the other hand I have seen a lot of jacks in my few outings...

Im hoping the trout are going to be on the larger side.... there are many early signs sincethe summer until now that would lead one to believe that there are gonna be some monsters this year; we wil have the answer sooner than later I suppose

This may seem like an ignorant questions....I understand why actualy "fishing" for the salmon is better than snagging them, but what is the benefit of catching and releasing the fish you catch if they are going to die afterwards? Obviously if you are not going to eat them I would say release them. Is it that we are taking them before they can spawn, therefore decreasing the numbers for the next year?

ORIGINAL: dtrobe

This may seem like an ignorant questions....I understand why actualy "fishing" for the salmon is better than snagging them, but what is the benefit of catching and releasing the fish you catch if they are going to die afterwards? Obviously if you are not going to eat them I would say release them. Is it that we are taking them before they can spawn, therefore decreasing the numbers for the next year?

No such thing as an ignorant question.
Only something you don't know the answer to.

Many people find that salmon taste terrible.
Some read the state heath advisory about mirex and dioxin levels in them.
Some just don't like carrying or dragging them out.
Some want to try for more natural repo.

Lots of reasons to release them.
Nothing wrong with keeping a legal limit of legally caught fish.
Few on this site would fault you for it.

ORIGINAL: dimebrite

I lost a monster king with shoulders on it that my brother and I estimated to be 35# this past friday?????...

I wear garter straps to prevent my third leg from poking a hole in my wader booties...

    True stuff all over the place here---welll perhaps an embellishement here and there--
  "back then" the gates were in fact much more unreliable with hydroelectricity being  made for profit the water ran very high one day and very low another- ya never knew what was gonna happen- Just like a Mousketeer---
   That and huge unmaintainable King stockings made for HUGE early runs along with bloodbaths when the water lowered. 900 all night and this morning and this afternoon 150 was NOT uncommon.  It was in fact the true 'heyday' of King fishing that has not and will not return.
     The  stocking levels along with the well maintained constant river flows have changed that-for the better considering the may 'new' species that run longer and different have been established-fineally. Even the Steel have returned well after a serious down trend. Hos used to be a thing to be spoken about as their numbers were always very low. 12 lbs was a huge one, now its kinda normal.
   IMHO the big killer was the big drought bout 25 yrs ago- the alweives couldnt spawn and when the bait fish go away guess what happens ---even marinas on the lake couldnt get boats out due to low lake levels- and not just one season either. Took a completly different view by the NY and other Great Lake states biologists to get it back to where it is now- A true year round fishery.
   That said my old once a year trips moved from mid Sept up to mid Oct as the fishery over the years became unpredictable early on. It still is too---spotty----
   The one thing that still eludes me is why there is not a more consistent early run like before-  -IMHO has to be more to it than the occasional larger flow- cept for dry years like this there is always the weekend high waters during the Summer and early Fall yet those runs are now a rarity. Lets face it we all look to the August Kings and there seem to be less and less of them each season ??????  Sept is getting to be like August  of long ago- Are there really that many fewer Kings in the system ????  have the numbers been made up by other species ( no complaint here bout that ) ???

Have to disagree with you about gate opening being unreliable.
The old regime,before they had to renegoiated with the state, ran no more than a trickle all summer long and therefore they almost,drought years being exceptions,always had the res both upper and lower full come fall when the days got shorter and the call for electricity started earlier and ended later.
It was the regular schedual for them to fully open the gates just before 8am,the flow would reach the tressle just after 8 every week day.

They almost never ran water over the weekend which made Tuesday morning on the lower river extraodinary fishing. Fish that built up in the estuary Sat, Sun,and until mondays flow reached them about 3 in the afternoon all ran and when the river dropped and the water was low Tues morning its holes were so full of fish that people looking into them thought they were empty because all they saw was the solid mass of backs not individual fish they thought they would see.

It became less reliable when the DEC demanded minimum flow rates all summer in the license renewal talks.

Got that Wader but my question was where the heck are all those Kings now?      
      That stuff happened in late August right through Sept back then even with the almost zero August flows as soon as it went up here they came--
  Now with more reliable Summer flows and the occasional rubber rafter increases- there is little to no August and Early Sept run like before.
  My understanding is that less Kings are in the system now but that doesnt make me understand a different life cycle too.
  Those pools of black bottoms covered with Kings were a regular sight - not any more. And it wasnt always just cause of the river dropping suddenly- I only made one trip a season back then and most always was there for a real banner run day. I aint that lucky.
  Even if there are lower stocking numbers now one would wonder where the earlies are. Fact is I  understand there is a greater natural repro now to help make up the diff- Have been told by a biologist that 52% of the Hos we now see are naturals-good.

    Thats the nailhead Wader-you win the cupie doll that was the whole point-- have heard lotsa guys over the years wonder why they have never taken Early fish and gathered from them and treated them separately from mid run and then late fish. 3 separate egg gatherings to SPREAD the run.
    Gotta wonder if all the fishes are having very similar genetics and wanna run the same darned day. Ya know that ole family tree that looks like a telephone pole thingie.
   Any different' body clocks' are being -or worse -have been- diminished by the late run egg  gathering. We have all heard how fish have waited so long at the hatchery they actually drop eggs right in the ladder. Unfortuantly this amateur  thinks those may have been  our August  babies.
    All that said I have HUGE respect for what the State has accomplished here and by no means am casting stones= justa wonderin -have heard that opinion by lotsa oldies who were there at the beginning far too often.

Temp could play into it, but even Al Gore doesn't have the juju to make Sept temps what Aug temps used to be when we used to have the hole in the ozone layer.
I blame the change from CFCs for closing it making the fish run later.

Food source definately has changed with the decline in smelt.
Possable affect=IDONTKNOW!
Generic alteration= mutation?------Mutation usualy takes a bit more time.
Not that there aren't the occassional instant mutations but they are the rarity and often don't survive.

Its all a guessing game based on ones personal experiences.

Seen plenty of early kings in the past 2 decades.... i'll leave it at that... fichy; I guess its hit or miss with the winter on the sub zero mornings... I know one thing though; I look forward to sharing some water with you this winter... the best thing about the winter is its an excuse to not work on the place so fishing is priority...