waDerboy 
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:11:49
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The two hander is for that big hole sink tip fishing.
By the way your definition of a BIG hole may differ a bit.
My home river has a couple holes around 60-70 yards long,35-40 yards wide and 10-15 feet deep holding fish in 65 percent of it.
It also fishes best around 1100cfs(mid low water,averages about 1500 cfs and fishes to around 2000 cfs.
Add some rocks the size of a mini van and a couple #5 seems about right to me.
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retired guy
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:26:01
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Hey Dime- I am an admitted lousy caster with the fly rod. Therefore little weight helps me do it. Any heavy weight and may as well just chuck and duck with a spin outfit and floss away. Gots nothin ta do with ego and lots ta do with havin fun with the fly rod- fish or not. If it was ego Ida said i gots a dozens of fishes not just one so far--ego guys STTERRRRETCH.And yank too.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/09/23 17:30:54
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hot tuna
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:33:57
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Come on guys we are talking apples to oranges here..
What I'm saying is 60>40's deg water temps compared to 40 > 30's water temps..
Really, once the water hits that magic 40's it's a swingers paradise..
Below that it's enough weight to tick bottom about 3>4 times per drift aka chuck-n-duck..
I don’t count the shot size but just add enough to be in the zone.. If fish are being lined it because
1.too long leader > tippet to weight>fly aka . Run weight to the max 4’
2. Too much weight and dredging for fish instead of fishing.
It’s that simple
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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dimebrite
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:39:53
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
Hey
Dime- I am an admitted lousy caster with the fly rod. Therefore little weight helps me do it. Any heavy weight and may as well just chuck and duck with a spin outfit and floss away.
Gots nothin ta do with ego and lots ta do with havin fun with the fly rod- fish or not. If it was ego Ida said i gots a dozens of fishes not just one so far--ego guys STTERRRRETCH.And yank too.
agreed, rt... 2-3 number 5s is my limit when it comes to rolling the line over... but if done properly in most spots when targetting STEEL on the salmon river; 2 number 5s are not necessary... i absolutely love my new tfo 11' #9 tfo... i have it in a #7 too but have yet to find the right line for it... a friend of mine has the same switch as you that he just bought and it casts pretty nice... we gotta get together to throw some rope sometime... waderboy; yes thats what two handers are made for for sure... but you cant slight the other advantages they can have... i spoke a lot about steel with fichy over the weekend; we both keyed in on high sticking/straight lining with mends on the downstream; and letting your nymph swing out when high sticking to the complete downstream of you... two handers FOR ME; allow me to comfortably apply many different approaches and presentations sometimes with in the same drift... btw; id love to hit this water youre speaking of on your home river... i'll have to try it sometime... it is a tail water fishery also right??? thanks in advance 
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:41:49
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ORIGINAL: dimebrite
I love high sticking with 2 handed rods also; gives you way more time in the zone; which makes a longer drift and less weight is required..
another benefit is any/all feeshes within a 12ft radius of you are safe,, Somehow I can envision you standing in the middle of the river whilst highstickin both banks... S*e*tard.
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dimebrite
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:47:30
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ORIGINAL: hot tuna
Come on guys we are talking apples to oranges here..
What I'm saying is 60>40's deg water temps compared to 40 > 30's water temps..
Really, once the water hits that magic 40's it's a swingers paradise..
Below that it's enough weight to tick bottom about 3>4 times per drift aka chuck-n-duck..
I don’t count the shot size but just add enough to be in the zone.. If fish are being lined it because
1.too long leader > tippet to weight>fly aka . Run weight to the max 4’
2. Too much weight and dredging for fish instead of fishing.
It’s that simple
yes i agree mostly tuna; but, i disagree with the necessary 3 to 4 times ticking of bottom when below 40 degrees... when i nymph in winter months i often have much success mid-low watercolumn with nymphs and other buggy types... especiallly on days when the sun is bright... this past february (along with many other times in various holes)in the tailout of the church hole i hooked up on the complete downstream of my drift with a nymph; it was probably in about 3 foot of water but no more 1 foot down while skating straight downstream from me with about 50' of line out... that fish came off the bottom aggressively and the water temps were 33... one thing for sure it had the thingamabobber guys who were just whipping 15 foot of line in and outof the slackwater on the other side looking and talking... yes; the ego is kicking in now 
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waDerboy
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:48:24
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It has a flood control dam about thirty miles and a couple 50 foot waterfalls upstream so I guess technicly its a tail water.
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dimebrite
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:49:07
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ORIGINAL: draketrutta
ORIGINAL: dimebrite
I love high sticking with 2 handed rods also; gives you way more time in the zone; which makes a longer drift and less weight is required..
another benefit is any/all feeshes within a 12ft radius of you are safe,,
Somehow I can envision you standing in the middle of the river whilst highstickin both banks... S*e*tard.
maybe some positive input would help...  im sure someone out there is reading this and maybe learning or looking forward to trying something new... peace out
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hot tuna
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:54:51
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Well that just comes as a minority not the majority.. Low & slow is key unless !! the sun creates a temp change causing fish to feed lo-mid column..
Really I want the best possible chance to "catch" fish..esp.. at $76.00 for gas..
Reason I did more local Ice trips.. If the SR aint paying, I'm staying but still fishing every day !! Can anyone afford $1,000.00 a month to fish ? If so they are a better person then I..
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:55:33
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ORIGINAL: retired guy
Hey
Dime-Â I am an admitted lousy caster with the fly rod.
RT - practice in your back yard if you got the space, tossing loops is not rocket science. No weight - besides the fly line - is required.
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 17:58:31
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hot tuna
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 18:10:00
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Humm Fichy ?? You been quiet lately.. I'm sure you have some insight on coldwater fishing you could add .. Just watch out for the wheels on that bus..LOL Edit>> "those fish" that are not impressed by Fly Mag Cover Boys.... at least they are fishing .. lol Drake, what gives man.. do you fish at all ?? I'm impressed with a 15" trout
post edited by hot tuna - 2011/09/23 18:13:06
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 18:33:26
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fish local waters HT - was going to hit the stream today - but the skies opened up Noah-Ark style right after I finished up my early am crow hunt. Life is getting in the way these days - I'll spare u my tears... I will live through Slammin Season vicariously reading youze expurts posts. (learned quite a bit about weights these past couple of dayz)...
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waDerboy
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 18:41:35
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I have a spot that I boober that is less than 3 feet from where I stand on the bank. Slackish water inside the nearest seam. Under ubbercold condition it holds fish all day long and most people cast 25 feet over it. I love fishing it after the catalog clad crowd goes fishless and I hook up on the first drift. PS I should say over the decades most of the real observent regulars now know about it.
post edited by waDerboy - 2011/09/23 18:43:40
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hot tuna
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 18:54:17
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drake, I used to fish (guide) salmon 30>35 days a year before the crash in 09.. Now I am glad to have spent 3 days on the water with Fichy which if I did not have the injury my salmon days might have been just 1.. I keep getting asked almost daily to fish with folks for salmon . I did make a commitment to fish the SR in a week with a good friend mainly just so we can hang together and hopefully I can net his fish.. While it was a blast for the Blues Brothers I just don't have it in me any longer to deal with crowded waters.. Even Steelhead can be tough but more bearable for sure.. I'll play with sunfish or hike a Cold Mountain Stream for dink fish any day of the week.. Pic's to follow .. The only thing I have left is to share past knowledge but not stream reports.. As said, I will be fishing or hunting at least every other day. I'm happy to share my outdoors experiences if you don't mind those reports. I'd be glad to hear, see yours or any other members as well.. Happy Salmon Season to all..
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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dimebrite
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 18:56:52
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Frame I believe when you're line is straight down stream from you it is right near the bank
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retired guy
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/23 20:46:15
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Drake- took all the darned weight right off last week at bottom of 81 hole tail and fished away- had a great time doin it too - no fishes but a great time.
Practiced tending and high sticking with a heavy hooked fly and got it right down in a few feet of water - actually hung a time or two.
The guys way below me in the ' low water' were slashing and hookin up now and then on racers - -- stayed put and had just as much fun.
Fishin and catchin can be different things. Just learnin to get it done was more than worthwhile. Then went and fished all the deeper eddys and pockets and behind rocks with no luck.
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dtrobe
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 00:06:08
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What was the crash of '09, and why does DEC care how far the weight is from the hook?
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waDerboy
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 09:31:32
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Tuna will have to explain his crash comment.
I would guess the stockmarket crash which took a lot of disposable cash out of peoples pockets.
The question about distance of weight has to do with the DECs attemot to turn the SR into a FISHERY.
Their first attempt was saying weight could not be closer than 2 feet from the hook.
At that time people were spotting fish in the shallows and throwing a hook with heavey weights very close to it at them and ripping the hook at them.
What developped was the technique of putting the weight 6-12 feet from the hook.
Leading the hook around faster than the current.
This would allow that long leader to get into the fishes mouth, the weight would drag the line followed by the hook to the fishes mouth (a much subtler form of snagging) usually sticking in the outside,far side of the fishes mouth/face.
Therefore the DEC mandated no more than 4 feet between hook and weight.
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dtrobe
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 18:59:32
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Well it's to think that people creative when it comes to ways to snag a fish. If only they would put the effort and creativity forth to catch the fish legitimately. Is it hard to avoid snagging at times because of the current of the water and the amount of fish in the water at times? I have only fished lakes and oceans, so im not accustomed to fishing with or against a current.
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 19:11:13
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ORIGINAL: dimebrite
Frame I believe when you're line is straight down stream from you it is right near the bank
not if u are a ball-wader (not referring to you)... Wader made a great post about fish hugging the bank - that swim away as the ball waders dampen the boyz...
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 19:18:31
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ORIGINAL: dtrobe
Is it hard to avoid snagging at times because of the current of the water and the amount of fish in the water at times? I have only fished lakes and oceans, so im not accustomed to fishing with or against a current.
Salmon: replace the word snagging with lining and the honest answer is yes... hence the term "headshake" that is used in GreatLake trib vocabulary - that guys like you that are accustomed to fishing lakes and oceans call bites.. that headshake is the fish trying to clear its mouth of offending leader. p.s. - some Salmon do bite.... p.s.s. - if the DEC catch you repeatedly yanking back on your rod in an attempt to de-scale a fish - that will yield you a snagging fine. Somehow, the blatent snaggers always seem to know when they are around - or not.. it's part of the game that will never end - pick your fishing spots wisely.
post edited by draketrutta - 2011/09/24 19:23:25
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draketrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 19:31:51
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ORIGINAL: hot tuna
drake, I used to fish (guide) salmon 30>35 days a year before the crash in 09.. Now I am glad to have spent 3 days on the water with Fichy which if I did not have the injury my salmon days might have been just 1..
I keep getting asked almost daily to fish with folks for salmon . I did make a commitment to fish the SR in a week with a good friend mainly just so we can hang together and hopefully I can net his fish..
While it was a blast for the Blues Brothers I just don't have it in me any longer to deal with crowded waters.. Even Steelhead can be tough but more bearable for sure..
I'll play with sunfish or hike a Cold Mountain Stream for dink fish any day of the week.. Pic's to follow ..
The only thing I have left is to share past knowledge but not stream reports..
As said, I will be fishing or hunting at least every other day. I'm happy to share my outdoors experiences if you don't mind those reports.
I'd be glad to hear, see yours or any other members as well..
Happy Salmon Season to all..
HT - I enjoy your reports and hunting stories. I'm into crows & yotes the last couple of years - which don't even require 1/8 tank of gas for me for multiple sets. This year - multiple bambis are going down too - revenge against the supermarket . Not fishing even local waters as much as I want - between flash floods & life matters getting in the way and it't not even money related - like most of our lives I'm sure. p.s. - took a walk in the backwoods earlier this afternoon - Jerry would be proud - sorry - no pics.... later d00d.
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waDerboy
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/24 20:54:52
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Yes at times the salmon can be so thick that accidently foul hooking them is almost unavoidable.
Yes many are lined accidently by people that believe they have had the fish bite.
Keeping the distanse from any added weight to the hook no more than 2 feet, and making sure your drift is not accelerated but rather going acroos and down stream at or slower than the current.
If you have a bow in your line it is sweeping the hook across the fish.
It is known as the SR power swing.
Yes unpressured salmon,some salmon, perhaps 1 in 10 will strike.
Even stale salmon will become aggressive with a water change or if fresh salmon enter their hole making them fight for the best lies.
Yes it would be nice if people didn't feel they had to put so much time into beating the intent of the law and just concentrate on learning how to fish for them properly.
It would be nice if people understood that you don't get bit by every bass, trout or crappie you fish for and didn't feel they had the right to do anything it takes to "hook" salmon.
Have a great trip.
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dtrobe
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/26 15:55:05
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Well it looks like i will be coming up a couple days early on the 1st of november now. Wouldnt mind getting together with any of you guys on the river to show the new guy some spots and tricks of the trade.
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hot tuna
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/26 16:52:23
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ORIGINAL: waDerboy
Tuna will have to explain his crash comment.
I would guess the stockmarket crash which took a lot of disposable cash out of peoples pockets.
Yes, a lot of guides have not been as busy as it once was.. Some try trolling up biz.. Others just march on..
"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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salmotrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/26 17:41:09
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I use enough weight to get my offering in front of a fishies snoot before half of my 15 foot drift is up. If I'm not getting action it usually means not enough weight. If I'm in the rocks often it means too much weight. Warmer and or low water I try to mend more to get it down. Colder and or faster water I put more on.
Let's face one thing- it's all about feel and what the Fish react too at a certain level of the water column & it can all change a few times in one pool if you wanna change weight that often while doing the 2 step through it, or you can finesse/mend/drag a little to make what you have on work without constantly playing around with line out of water and swinging long rod over the fishies heads & spooking them.
Of coarse this is just theory. I wasn't using any weight last week & had a take, WB was using some and had many takers. Slayer and I anteed up our lead and got no action.
The following couple days whilst angling alone I used some, none & too much. Seemed like I found action everywhere but best on the pocketbook to not dredge the rocks and lose 3 feet of $12 a spool tippet and flies.
Slayer- get your lead and line yet?
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10pts
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/26 17:47:38
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ORIGINAL: waDerboy
Shot.
No more than to occasionaly find bottom.
If you are hanging up either you have to much weight or are casting at to great an upstream angle.
Have some one out side the state of NY ship you real lead split shot don't waste your $$$ on the tin crap.. one advantage living in Pa. I can haul a ton of it up..
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salmotrutta
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/26 18:07:11
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metalslayer
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RE: Help for a New Guy!
2011/09/26 18:44:33
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not yet my post guy is unreliable.
Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.
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